But I don’t understand because kids returning to school also will mean putting their families at risk. Maybe not for ten weeks while they are at school but likely when they return home at the end of the semester. Faculty and staff don’t have a monopoly on the risk. And high school kids? Risking their family’s health every single day they go to school. And most of us want them back.
As for the “cushy” tenured faculty, maybe it’s anecdotal and (obviously I hope) it is not every single professor, but some of them do work less. The three that my Stanford friend told me about worked their tails off to get tenure but now they get to “spend more time with their families” and “relax” a lot more. Definitely not working “full time”. Do I respect faculty at S19’s college? That’s insulting to say that I do not. I was simply wondering why teaching extra sections couldn’t be an option if the college needed to split kids up even more for social distancing. Maybe some faculty would have the time to teach two sections instead of one section of a class. Or maybe they’d be willing to do it. The zoom classes I overheard this spring showed enthusiastic teachers who really liked sharing their knowledge with the kids. Why would three more hours a week in front of students be a problem?
@Mindfully S19’s remote classes were very good and, as I’ve mentioned before, three of the four were almost exactly like the class. Live lecture with discussion. Met same time as usual. Then, they even had additional zoom meetings with 3-4 kids and the professor to discuss even further or to get questions answered. So, class itself was really very good. But that’s not everything we are paying the price for. And S19 just said it can’t be the same no matter how much the professors try to make it the same. It’s harder to discuss over zoom and it’s just an impersonal way to learn staring at faces on a screen. Plus, being on campus to have those more spontaneous moments is important. Add on extracurriculars that enrich the experience and time spent outside class with his team or coaches or classmates and that’s all missing. The track team did get together on zoom to “hang out” or celebrate birthdays. He did talk to his coach on the phone. But he’s in his childhood bedroom! I don’t understand why some posters don’t get that the experience in this way is not worth the money. Online cannot replace the on campus experience.
It is 100% correct that online learning will not replace a traditional college experience…clubs, volunteering, presentations, day to day nuances, hanging with professors and friends, learning in person, etc…these are all missing when kids learn from the kitchen table. I don’t think anybody will dispute that this is not what they want to pay for.
When schools open again…families will absolutely be at risk. Staff on college campuses, as well as their families, will be at risk. As much as profs love teaching and want to be back at school, I feel confident in saying that they don’t want to bring this virus home.
I feel that this is in the hands of the students. If they want their experience to work, they must wear a mask, practice frequent hand washing, and follow the rules. It’s very simple…if they don’t follow the rules…schools may close again.
We have to wait and see how this pans out. What happens if I go back to school in the fall? Will I ever see my 80 year old parents again? Will I have to isolate for 2 weeks first? And how will I do this if I am working full time?
Whining and complaining will not solve anything. We have to figure out how to make this work, and we have to accept the fact (and model the behavior) that we will have a new normal until there is a vaccine.
I do not want my kids to live in a bubble. I want them to learn to handle whatever the world throws at them…and to do it safely and responsibly.
If private residential colleges are businesses, and student consumers aren’t getting what they paid for (because pandemic) maybe just don’t go back, save expensive tuition, find a much less expensive alternative, either online or local.
Going forward, some families probably won’t be able to afford tuition due to financial reverses, and some colleges are probably going out of business.
It’s impossible that fall 2020 is like fall 2019, and this disruption isn’t short term. It’s not going to be what students signed up for, and it’s a choice not to pay if it’s not worth it. Families have that option. What they are willing to pay for the new reality of college experience is totally under their control.
Many people are considering this (and international students certainly are) - this is exactly what colleges are terrified people will do. The waitlisted movement is high, even though in theory schools need more room on campus for study abroad that may not happen. This means yields are low and kids are choosing something else.
I think the 70+k price (40% of most colleges student body full pay) was at the “jump the shark price” for most families even before Covid. Alot of very wealthy people I know choose to send their kids to lower priced out of state and in state flagships or colleges that offer merit because college was just not worth that price, especially since Ivy and Ivy+ are now unattainable for 99% of students.
Many colleges will close, as they should, in the next few years. The pricing/service model doesn’t work and they need to come up with a new one.
So instead of adding professors to teach more sections the opposite might actually happen. My son’s senior level class that he could of used for his major and minor requirement was just canned. This class was sold out. Now he has to find 2 classes to replace it. While doing so he is noticing that his classes instead of having 20-25 kids in it now have closer to 45. Unless this is an anomaly some schools might be cutting some classes and adding kids to others to either make some cuts in classes /facility. At his school like Calc 2 has like 20 kids in it but multiple sessions. It will be interesting to see what happens to those sections.
They are probably doing this if they have a plan to have only 50% of students in class at a time (with the other 50% dialing in from their dorm). A classroom that fits 40, but normally only has 25, can take 20 at a time (socially distanced) even if the class officially has 40 students signed up.
Yep. I don’t like complaining and had 2 in college. My daughters experience as a senior was not good but she still finished her senior thesis and was active on campus. My son’s experience was OK. He already held meetings on Zoom etc for other school projects so his pivot was less but some classes /tests didn’t translate well. They both get it and understand
We aren’t sueing the schools or asking for money back or discounts. Freezing tuition would be nice. But don’t expect anything. Both of their educations are superb. Just keep doing that!
Also many reports that families, like 40 %(have no idea where I heard that… Maybe CNN) … Are taking funds out of college savings to live on. So college choices and ability to pay will change for the next few years. No question about it. Least expensive options will be taken. I would think Community College will fill up. People tend to look down at community College but where I live there a are some really excellent one’s. I went my first year since it was literally the same professors for some of my classes for 1/4 of the price. Even like the same tests according to one.
So as far as kids coming home and family members getting sick. Well that depends on your kid to me. My daughter just graduated. She was with like 5 kids that all social distanced. My kids had masks if needed. She said they stuck together like a family unit. They social distanced walked /hiked /bike ride. Many had dinners together but spread out. They did keep some distance. When my daughter and son came home (he was in an apartment by himself), we didn’t lock them up in the bedrooms or isolate them in the basement. We didn’t hug or kiss them right away either. They are sorta self isolating since my daughter brought home let’s just say “lots of stuff in her Uhaul” so she is spending a lot of time redoing her room and my son being on Zoom and having school meetings and being holed up in his room or our basement is more the norm anyway. Lol…
My daughter had a friend over to go rollerblading yesterday. Her friend came in to our house and had her mask on. They sat in our backyard talking afterwards. We told both kids on nice days have friends over in the backyard for dinner etc. We want them to be responsible but still live their life. They know if they go into any store etc to have a mask on etc. It’s just a new normal. If your kids were coming home on a plane or train then have them shower and change their clothes before interacting with anyone.
Now thinking about it I will most likely not having my son take the train home from Michigan. I will just get him (have done it in the past but not always), plus I can visit my mother /sisters prior also this way. So little changes will need to be made. Don’t think drastic changes will need to be accomplished.
Thx. The one class counted for BOTH his major and minor. He has taken full boat close to 18 credits every semester or just about it seems. He was planing on having his senior year light like 12/13 credits each semester. So it will be bumped up to 15/16 now for the first semester I guess. He can graduate a semester early but really wants the minor and don’t blame him. It’s looks excellent at his school. But I told him maybe he should arrange his schedule now so he “can” graduate after the fall and then he will have the decision if the virus gets worse whether it’s worth going back or doing solely online. Well, he has emails out to his major and minor advisors and will figure it out. First world issues not complaining just explaining.
Since D will be a senior in the fall, I don’t think she’d have any options for transfer. If there were another LAC that planned to have in-person classes and hers did not, would they accept a 4th year student without making her take many additional courses? Doubtful; they want the student to actually do the majority of their coursework at their school before putting their name on the diploma. Regardless, the transfer deadline will have passed. Our state university doesn’t offer her major, so that wouldn’t be an option either.
This is at a big University.
Michigan. So upper classes are usually small even for a large college. My daughter choose a small Lac for one reason to have small class sizes. But funny thing talking to both kids most of their classes are basically the same sizes… Lol…
I would think at the big universities the smaller classes will increase. They have like 10 or more (estimating here) sections for like Calc 2. Very small classes. Yes those can be condensed and most likely will be. Schools will have to make cuts somewhere without truly affecting the educational process. I think also some classes like math might translate better to online then let’s say a deep discussion class.
@knowstuff We are still limiting our kids on who they see and how (same group of friends and only outside) but, come fall, all bets are off. Either my H or I have to fly with S19 back to school (long story but he can’t go himself because his return is complicated with all of his stuff being stored two hours away from campus) and D21 will be back in high school (whatever that means). So, when one of us returns from a trip to Maine and D is at school, the bubble is absolutely broken. Guess we will just be back to washing our hands like crazy. Of course, we will still follow whatever rules there are for being out in public but home won’t feel as safe as it does right now.
And I can’t see people quarantining their college student when they return after first semester. Will we all be quarantining for 14 days every time we leave the state or go on a plane? I know a lot of people who have left Illinois to drive to houses in Wisconsin or Michigan. They come and go. They don’t quarantine because they’d always be quarantined then! Plus, Illinois does not require it.
I don’t know. This all comes back to the faculty being afraid to teach. The virus isn’t a one way street from student to teacher. By August, a lot of people are going to be out and about. Disney World is opening soon for goodness sake. Many (if not all?) K-12 teachers will go back to school. College professors are not the only group that will be out and about with the virus. That’s a big part of why I don’t understand the push back. Colleges (like workplaces and retail and theme parks, etc) will have rules to help stop a big spike in cases. Maybe it comes down to faculty not trusting that students will be practicing best behaviors and are more likely to spread the virus? Well, if anyone has watched any tv lately, there are a LOT of people out there of all ages who are throwing all caution to the wind and many of them are not 18-21 year olds. If professors are afraid of the students, then they should be afraid just to leave their house to go anywhere. All age groups out there are not following social distancing rules.
@homerdog. It all comes down to washing your hands and not touching your face and wearing the masks when you can’t social distance. Many of my patients /friends as you stated go back and forth to Michigan /Wisconsin weekly even now from Chicago . It doesn’t make a difference what Illinois rules are. It’s what you and I do that makes the difference.
^^You can bet the professors who are concerned about catching the virus in classrooms aren’t partying with lots of strangers or taking other risky actions in their daily lives.
Tough to generalize (but, that doesn’t seem to stop anyone from doing so.) IMO, Dartmouth, sure; that’s an easy call. Columbia? Not so much. And, I doubt if one in four Bulldogs could point you in the right direction to the Yale Bowl.
As for whether Harvard and Yale need prep school sports in order to attract qualified white applicants? Ask some of the Asian parents on CC.
I have a friend whose son is a math major. Top of his class in hs, had a 4.0 in college before CV. Had such a hard time with his online math classes he says he’ll change his major if classes are online this fall.
