School in the 2020-2021 Academic Year & Coronavirus (Part 1)

The labs contracted to do the testing for colleges will also have demands from other sources. If several local hospitals and care homes have a surge of symptomatic cases and the lab doesn’t have the capacity to serve them and the college contract then they will have to make a choice. They probably have a formal ethics code to follow. Obviously the actual sick will take priority. Or maybe a large local factory that manufactures an essential product is hit. The mayor intervenes and demands that the lab processes screening tests for the entire staff so that the factory can continue running.

Even if a College has plans in place, those might not get fulfilled.

I actually do think it’s likely the testing will pan out on my kiddo’s campus, but they have severely de-densified along with other very conservative measures (all on-line classes, etc), so it won’t be as incredibly impressive if they are able to test everyone frequently as it would be if a giant school like tOSU did it.

That being said, what would I do if they still aren’t able to test twice a week as they plan? It will entirely depend on the situation. If they aren’t testing (or getting results back in a meaningful timeframe) AND there are lots of cases, people are dropping like flies, she doesn’t feel she can keep herself socially distanced/masked and safe–then I would happily go drive the hour and a half to retrieve her (and like others, would take precautions with the driving–probably do the 2 car maneuver brilliantly suggested upthread, and keep her quarantined until tested, at least 10 days). In that case, I would also write a letter requesting prorated R&B back because they aren’t providing safe shelter, but I wouldn’t be too optimistic ;-).

But if they aren’t testing twice a week as planned, BUT the case counts continue to stay very low in the community where her school is, and she doesn’t know anyone on campus who feels unwell (whether they have covid and are asymptomatic or no one really has it at all), I guess I’d be ok with it. Disappointed in their lack of follow-through, but if there aren’t any outbreaks and no one is suffering, I would see no reason to bring her home.

I certainly do NOT want her to contract this virus (esp as I’m hopeful for a vaccine before end-of-year, so its not TOO long to avoid it), but at home she’s been doing “essential work” since April, with lots of people around her. We have found that wearing a mask and being cautious has worked well and we do not believe she has had the virus (although she has not been tested yet). She is the picture of health, but of course may have been asymptomatic. I see no reason to be MORE concerned about her not being tested on campus than not being tested while she’s at home doing essential work with lots of people around her. So I’d have her stay on campus.

Here’s one easy prediction to make: There will be major outbreaks on some campuses in the fall. The only question is how many campuses will be affected. It depends on preparation, actual implementation, compliance, and yes luck. Some colleges are woefully under-prepared and they will need all the luck they can get. Some colleges will likely shut down early, regardless of what their current stated “plans” are.

I’m not an epidemiologist but, maybe, because many of them - the asymptomatic among them - tend to fall into the “super spreader” category?

Don’t let perfection get in the way of the possible.

You’re easily amused.

I know UMD has a housing addendum that says the university is not obligated to refund room if it shuts down for a second wave of covid. Does anyone know other universities and colleges with similar policies?

@sara12 Purdue also said no R&B refunds this year.

@melvin123 wrote:

Thanks, for the update. I admit I haven’t kept abreast of all the Ivies since Harvard announced their plans. Brown is actually one of my favorite places of higher learning. But, I’m a little disappointed that they haven’t settled on a testing contract at this late date. There’s only one shoe left to drop here.

Meanwhile, next door, I keep watching the case fluctuations in Connecticut which seem to change from “steady” to “increasing” on a daily basis. I’m sure it’s keeping the folks at Wesleyan and Yale awake nights.

I’m sorry but that’s so bad. No refund? Who would sign up for that? Can kids at UMD and Purdue choose to take class remotely instead of coming to campus? This policy just would not sit right with me.

@RosePetal35 I believe he would opt to not go to campus and would do remote learning. I would support it.

Risky long-term strategy. Sure they’ll get to keep the money from this fall but after that I’m not sure how many parents will sign-off, me included. Parents/students are already staying home this fall. I think this policy will push more students away from campus, at least the ones that can’t commute.

Until/if there’s a vaccine this would push everything online or commute. That would cause a lot of changes to the current “college experience” for kids and the business model for colleges.

Yes. From what I have seen yes. I have seen schools suggesting kids get the flu shot especially this year also.

So when you think you have covid one of the tests they do is a flu tests to rule it out.

UVA is not offering any housing refunds after the 7th week of the semester.

My son’s school is asking students to quarantine 8 days prior to move in. There will be no asymptomatic testing upon arrival beyond athletes. They will only test symptomatic individuals over the course of the semester. Room and board will be refunded on a prorated basis should the school need to close. Tuition was frozen for 20-21 which is appreciated. My son is going to his apartment no matter what.

I know two people in PA who were recently tested for Covid - one got her results in 9 days and the other in 13, basically rendering the test pointless.
And so many of the colleges in this area are promising test results within 48 hours?
Again, big promises and plans built on a house of cards.

@msdynamite85 - Purdue is requiring the flu shot for all returning students. They have five all day vaccination “events” planned in late August/early September. It was part of the Protect Purdue Plan. Students unwilling to have the flu shot (or adhere to any number of other requirements) were told to take their courses online.

@homerdog - Purdue did refund R&B last semester but said that they would not be able to do that this semester and keep tuition frozen. They also didn’t upcharge anyone who ended up with a single for social distancing who didn’t request one. Personally I’m fine rolling the dice on this one. I think they’ll make it until at least October and they’re scheduled to come home in November anyway. And yes, this was announced a long while ago, before students needed to decide if they were returning to campus or taking classes fully on line from home.

Can you cite your resources on this? Every pandemic in the last 150 or so has had a second wave or something like that. .

https://www.cebm.net/covid-19/covid-19-epidemic-waves/

https://www.hopkinsmedicine.org/health/conditions-and-diseases/coronavirus/first-and-second-waves-of-coronavirus

It could be just mild but because of no national commitment or plan it will be interesting. Will mask wearing/hand washing help lessen the basic flu also?

People will get their kids tested before leaving to college for a false sense of security. Then the kid travels to school and depending how can get it. Then they get tested when on campus. This is the more important test. Yes, it’s going to suck when our kids come back positive and have to quarantine right at the start of school. It will happen no matter how much testing we do prior. So I doubt every parent is going to grab their kid off campus if they just have no symptoms or cold symptoms but test positive. Depending on which tests also there are false positives /negatives so will the kid get tested twice before hybernating or just another test after 14 days? All rhetorical but…

^I think, from what I’ve been able to understand, Drs. Birx and Fauci are saying that a Second Wave would be hard to distinguish from the situation we’re already in.

@melvin123 I agree that to a large extent by the promised testing isn’t delivered (for whatever reason), it will be too late. I expect that many schools will have overpromised on testing (for a variety of reasons some more within their control than others). There are huge financial incentives to doing that as so many have correctly noted here they are large businesses.

@RosePetal35 I would expect that when Cornell talked about housing people from high risk states at hotels, the list of high risk states was relatively low. Now that the list is much longer, it makes sense that the policy would need to be changed. Trick with schools (tho not necessarily unique to schools) is advanced planning is needed for all involved. Schools can’t announce today that classes start this Weds and expect things to work out well. But with a rapidly changing landscape the further out plans are made, the more likely they will need to be changed as the applicable date approaches. Life is what happens while you are making plans as they say.

@EmptyNestSoon2 My daughter is in a similar position. She has been working with the public for the last 3+ months. She hasn’t been tested. Could have been asymptomatic though. Absent symptoms I am not expecting she will be tested when back at school. And certainly not regularly. She has an off campus apartment with her own bedroom and bathroom and only one roommate. Flexibility will be the key for the semester (and at that point she is effectively done because she plans to have an internship (return to where she was 2 years ago for more exp for grad school) next semester so she won’t be on campus again other than hopefully for graduation in May). Her plan is to remain in her apartment if classes go full online.

@circuitrider I’ll pass on a third day of mental gymnastics. You do appear to be very good at it though. I am not easily amused but its easy to be amused by many posters here.

I’ve been monitoring the situation in Europe both for personal and professional reasons and I will try to provide a write-up about school openings in various countries.

@homerdog: thanks for the explanation. I can understand their thought process better.

@yearstogo:
I unfortunately can, because the situation’s considered so bad by European standards that Swedes are still banned from travelling to other European countries, including Norway and Denmark. Malmö is especially irrate because they behaved like the Danes and blame Stockholm’s “maverick” approach (their term) for the restrictions they’re now under, especially as Danes are free to cross the bridge but they’re not.

While comprehensive schools (K-9) were open, high schools, vocational schools, and universities closed and went remote. Keep in mind the typical Swedish elementary classroom is big and airy, with 12 to 18 kids (student:teacher ratio in Sweden is similar to that of American private schools’, or public schools in North Dakota or Maine) and a habit of spending much time out of doors. Even without the pandemic, parents could enroll their kids in a month-long “forest school”/“outdoors school” with its own “outdoors learning” curriculum.

There had to be official apologies, not just about the nursing homes (which indeed was a disaster) but the general “maverick” choice, although Swedes are still generally supportive of it since they felt they did behave responsibly without a mandate: they stayed away from bars and restaurants even if those remained open, kept their kids home if they had sniffles, worked from home whenever possible or bicycled to work when it wasn’t. General criticism focused on masks (many feel there should have been a mandate, not just a recommendation).
Tegnell, the main architect of the plan, is under fierce criticism; there’s an official “Congress” inquiry. In June he admitted he might not have advised the exact same plan, although he walked that back 3 days later somewhat by saying in hindsight he’d have advised something in between “personal responsibility” and “total lockdown”.
Sweden saw 12 times the number of deaths Norway did and got as badly hit economically, meaning that not only did they not benefit in any way but also made a choice that resulted in thousands of needless deaths. Tegnell is now reduced to arguing that the strategy built “collective [“herd”] immunity”, for which he got major pushback from most Swedish scientists who say his assertion is impossible to prove scientifically (contamination is down, but could be the effect of Swedes being physically apart, having left for the islands or their vacation homes away from the cities + increased voluntary wearing of masks + weather conditions; in addition, right now we don’t really understand if “immunity” exists/is possible, as the data would indicate “immunity” is temporary and seems to fade after 2 to 3 months – it could be longer-lasting for people who got sick in May or June but there’s not enough data; we still don’t know whether it fades like for others where we need “boosters” after a decade or works like the flu vaccine, which requires a shot every year…)
Scandinavian countries were “lucky” in that they didn’t have any superspreader events and most of Europe “locked down” before the virus circulated freely onto their territories, so that after the 8-10 weeks of lockdown it was virtually suppressed. Masks can be mandated locally depending on local assessments (if R=/>1 for instance) but since the virus is currently not circulating it’s not vital.

wrt college students and parties:
several clusters have been linked to young adults partying. One event in particular seems especially portentous wrt the college situation&college students in the US:
a cluster of 41 infections was linked to an indoors bar party in the seaside town of Quiberon, with 277 youths in attendance, all 18-25. Alarm was raised when the young man was diagnosed with Covid on a Monday (he had a headache on Friday, took a painkiller and went to work, then again on Saturday when he went to the party; since the headache hadn’t disappeared on Monday and had turned into a fever, he went to see a doctor who ordered an immediate Covid19 test). Contact tracing led to 22 people showing positive results. Immediately general testing was put in place not just for the 277 but for the entire population whom they might have spread it to.
Young people found at another packed bar explained that they’re not opposed to masks but 1° masks are not practical when drinking and dancing and 2° it’s impossible to distance when dancing in a tightly packed club. Which, duh, is the reason such indoors parties are prohibited.
Immediate contact tracing was put in place along with drive-by (well, walk by) testing for all people in town + anyone who wanted one.
Person zero was a young man with a summer job in a bakery, which he had to leave due to his diagnostic; he feels he&his friends are being unfairly targeted (“we didn’t mean anything by it, we were just having fun”…) and after his 2-week quarantine, he went back to his hometown to finish his summer vacation with his family, 100 miles away (and may be going to another resort with them). 81 people have now been traced since the original 41 infected others. The bar owner who organized the “soiree dansante” (! the wording was chosen on purpose to obscure the event, as this tends to evoke “tea dances” or to denote seniors…) had to close his bar for 4 months (=till the off season) since all indoors parties are prohibited; if he reopens before december, he’ll get his license revoked. In addition, the town now prohibits beach parties and enforces beach closures from 9pm till 7 am with patrols. Masks are required both indoors and outdoors, except on the beach or in the water (PSA: you shouldn’t wear a wet mask).
Right now there are daily news segments warning young people, because the rate of infected young people has grown to 8/100,000 (double what it was in June) - although two youths were interviewed today, saying "it’s unfair, how are we supposed to know this stuff? " “Well, there are signs everywhere and TV announcements” “I mean, it’s not on Insta nor on TikTok so how could we be expected to know about it?” “Again, there’s a sign. RIGHT. THERE.” (not verbatim exchange but gist of it. o_O)
Similar outbreaks linked to young adult parties have been reported in Frankfurt, Berlin, Hamburg, Barcelona, and other European popular with vacationers.
Therefore, one aspect of controlling outbreaks on college campuses will likely be linked to enforcing rules banning parties 1° indoors 2° with lots of people … which, due to the nature of college students, would mean college need to 1° dedicate outdoors areas for parties and 2° very strictly restrict the number of students allowed in 3° with lots and lots of messaging on social media, both official and unofficial. :wink:

We know two kids at Cornell who just decided to take a leave. I think Cornell is allowing leave of absence requests all the way up until the first day of class. One of these kids has a house there with friends and the family has been paying rent since June but they’ll just eat the cost and continue to pay. Cornell’s plans seem to be getting more and more complex for those coming from outside the NE and more classes are being put online.

On a different note, I didn’t even think about the mass exodus at Thanksgiving this year across the country. S19 and his friends decided they wanted to stay in their house until right before Christmas. At first I wanted him to just come home for Thanksgiving and stay here but now I’m thinking plane travel might be a bit dicey that Thanksgiving week with more people (college kids!) traveling than expected. Plus, I doubt we will be having any sort of usual celebration anyway. Best case scenario is he’s back on campus in mid-Feb but we have no idea how likely that is!