UNC: University of Needless Contagion
@RosePetal35 Got it, will be interesting to see between Amherst and Williams the percentage that decided to take a gap year. Both are such similar schools, but the 15% reduction at Williams would be an incentive to stay on track since the 15% reduction is a one time event for this year only. Longer term, both schools would be better off keeping the percentage of gap year takers within reason.
As I am sure was covered earlier in this thread, professors at UNC published an open letter to students encouraging them not to come to campus this fall: https://www.charlotteobserver.com/opinion/editorials/article244594577.html
Elsewhere, anecdotal accounts suggest that returning students are crowding into bars near campus:
Finally, Dr Osterholm (infectious disease expert at U. Minnesota) has predicted an large increase in the number of Covid-19 infections in the next month arising from schools and colleges.
I don’t know how all of this will shake out, but I don’t think it is encouraging at this point. It doesn’t take many sparks to start these fires, and crowded bars and dorms are like cruise ships.
Of course they can leave. It’s not prison and these are"adults" right? Of course he got the guidance and can pick up his phone and ask questions any time, but instead he’s dishing on the internet. I guess there is no expectation of personal responsibility.
If they are indeed going from daily to weekly reporting, that’s bad.
Interesting how our view has changes and some will actually view this as good news. In the spring one case in our entire county (very close to Gettysburg) shut the entire k-12 school system down. It will be interesting to see the spread here. This is a small school but students are still coming and going and there is no such thing as a bubble, not even in jail (yes, there are reports of outbreaks there too)
Here’s a UNC news report that eludes to the fact the college has no control to change policies due to Covid, but instead the board of governors does.
Todd think the administration would be strongly messaging to the students how a lack of social distancing and mask wearing will lead to a shut down.
https://www.newsobserver.com/news/local/article245001125.html
There is a NY Times article that discusses this, and you are right to worry. Colleges were already in trouble before Covid with their value prop since pricing has “jumped the shark” for 90% of colleges (65+k sticker price for many “less elite” colleges). The elite brand colleges will always have people who will pay, but the rest- even next level down- won’t. Note: this article states there are 5000 colleges in the US. Wow, hard to believe… Consolidations and closures are absolutely going to happen.
“Many colleges were facing financial dark clouds even before the coronavirus arrived. Population declines in some parts of the country have dampened enrollment, and soaring tuition has led many families to question the price of a college diploma. Moody’s Investors Service, which in March downgraded the higher education sector to negative from stable, wrote that even before the pandemic, roughly 30 percent of universities “were already running operating deficits.””
A survey by the American Council on Education estimated that reopening this fall would add 10 percent to a college’s regular operating expenses, costing the country’s 5,000 some colleges and universities a total of $70 billion.
“For institutions,” said Mr. Hartle, who lobbies for the council, “this is a perfect storm.”
“This crisis is demonstrating that there is real value in face-to-face instruction,” agreed David Feldman, an economist at William & Mary in Virginia and author, with Robert B. Archibald, of “The Road Ahead for America’s Colleges and Universities.” That recognition, he said, will generally protect better-endowed schools and those with state support.
Even so, he said, a culling is at hand for higher education. His prediction: a consolidation of public university branch campuses and a reckoning for some small, private liberal arts colleges that are already operating on thin margins.
“There will be a shakeout,” he said.
https://www.nytimes.com/2020/08/15/us/covid-college-tuition.html
Is it possible the University is saying to wear a mask out of respect/concern for the police and the risk they are exposing the police to when they show up?
Masks also have the potential to escalate into an issue if the police ask (or order) mask-wearing and the students decide they want to “express” their rights? Kids have also been “warned” about the situation, so there is no post-incident “had I really thought about it…”.
Maybe, the IA State police mask request is one of the more thoughtful inclusions on any of the university propaganda going around?
Maybe, but they also suggest that hosts give their number to neighbors and ask them to call them, rather than calling the police. That seems to suggest two things: 1) that IA State expects them to have loud, packed parties and 2) that covering them up is more important than breaking them up.
“How to avoid the notice of the authorities for this thing you shouldn’t be doing” is a questionable approach.
This is probably old news, but there is already a lawsuit at UNC by the professors, who have been very vocal in telling students not to come back. The Board of Governors has control over the UNC system. UNC does not make its own rules, as it’s a public school. The health dept recommended a remote start…but the Board of Gov wanted to forge ahead and open. The Chancellor has no authority in this decision.
NC is a big state with various opinions regarding this virus. They had good intentions…with epidemiologists being part of the reopening plan…but there were parts of this plan that parents did not agree with. Again…it’s a big state with various points of view. The profs, epidemiologists and community may feel one way…but others seem to come from a whole other place. Opening up like this will not work.
My D graduated from UNC and it’s really an amazing school. I hope this nightmare ends.
The very real issues raised by @ProfSD aren’t specific to higher education. Most of us operate in a non-tenure, often cutthroat world where we lose our jobs through no fault of our own.
What’s become very apparent in this crisis is the lack of leadership and decision-making skill inside of colleges and universities. When confronted with the statistical, research-based information that so many presidents started their careers producing, they are dumbfounded by the need to factor financial viability into the mix. Most will not or can not prioritize the health (both physical and mental) of their communities over the fears of lost revenue. Ironically, the cost related to their focus on revenue may likely cost them more over the long term.
It’s commendable that some professors will re-enter the classroom, but let’s not romanticize anything this fall as face-to-face. All instruction will be diminished to some extent. Even if the lecture is the exact same and all of the students are in the room, the exhaustion of COVID related considerations and the lack of nearly all meaningful interaction regarding the curriculum (in the library, on the lawn, in the dining hall), will not only be against school policy but much less than what we collectively reflect upon as face-to-face.
Schools that have “oversold” the experience risk revolts by the students and parents. Many schools have had their time horizons cut short by the virus, but others are in the process of creating reputational damage they may not recover from. Being back in the classroom may appear to be a brave and selfless act, but if it isn’t part of a safe, broad, transparent experience, it can’t save the sinking ship.
@“Cardinal Fang” first, it was 9 positive, then an additional 4 who had the “leftovers” - I misread it. It just said that the lab that they used for testing and results could see this.
Meanwhile at Purdue… students are being turned away from getting room keys if negative test results not on record (sounds like so far this is more of a technical problem of results not getting updated in the system but students were told to bring a copy if their test results with them.). Students also have to take and pass a covid precaution quiz before coming to campus. General word is that everyone is mask wearing and being compliant. Socially distanced Freshman orientation starts today. D moves in Friday. We will see how it goes.
I am not sure why UNC is being torched here. On a news program this morning they highlighted UNC as well as Oklahoma state, a state school in GA, Notre Dame, and Villa Nova. Point is large, small, state, private, they are all failing. They are all ready to blame the student for their lack of planning and naivety. Yes, there are parties going on on all campuses. But, Notre Dame this morning stated it was an “off campus” event that assisted in their spread. This is from the school that was going to open early and ask everyone not to leave and have total control over the situation. My point is there are kids living in group housing of 25+ (fraternity) sharing bedrooms and bathrooms. There are non partying students that will leave dorms for off campus jobs, see families on weekends and sit in class with those “other” kids and go to the dining hall with them. In the end all of these schools will blame the students for their plan not working but, I do not think their plan was workable. Schools that do not receive state funding and are not fearful of their financial future know this and they have closed.
With all that off my chest I have 3 children at state schools. Because of their merit scholarships taking a year off is not an option. As long as the schools have in person classes, they want to be there. Otherwise, they are more than happy to stay home and learn on line. It is not their responsibility to figure this out, that is the job of the school but if you ask them to do it in a space suit, expect some noncompliance.
I agree with this. There is a terrible fear of being honest with parents and students. I don’t think college administrators are guilty of deliberate dishonesty; I just think they can’t even admit the truth to themselves because it is too horrifying. In contrast, if colleges and universities had bitten the bullet and planned for a fully remote fall semester back in early June, when it was becoming amply clear that the Covid crisis was not going away any time soon, they could have done a good job of creating an effective, consistent learning environment. No, it’s not the same as normal, but there was never any chance that this semester would be normal. Instead, many administrations waffled and delayed and lived in denial, and lost the chance to construct a strong if temporary online program and persuade families and parents that it will be effective.
I hear parents say they are willing to send their kids off to college anyway because of social and mental health considerations outweighing academic ones. That does not surprise me in the least, but I do want to make the argument that from a purely academic/pedagogical standpoint, effectively planned and delivered remote instruction for 3.5 months is going to accomplish a lot more than stop-and-start, opening-and-closing, last-minute shifting will. Plus a lot fewer people will get sick (students and faculty), thus less disruption.
I also understand that certain disciplines are better able to adapt to online delivery than others. Lab sciences and performing arts disciplines are an issue. But many, many classes can be safely and effectively delivered online.
This is not true. Back in June things were on the downtrend, especially in the northeastern and the south was at a steady (higher than they should have been) level.
Also, colleges should have been preparing for hybrid/online all along since the discussion of “second wave” has been going on since April. According to professors on this thread they have been doing just that all summer - going back with restrictions and getting set up for hybrid/online learning are not mutually exclusive. The issue is that many many colleges didn’t have the money for either - to prep for remote learning NOR to lose enrollment/room and board. And there is no help from government. Therefore many many colleges will close or consolidate and have massive layoffs across faculty and staff. If (God willing) Covid were to be cured tomorrow, this is still going to happen because the pandora’s box has been opened and the value prop is not there for many colleges. Alternatives are quietly being developed - tech training programs right out of high school, for example - they need to figure out a way to house students so they can have a similar “college experience” and move out of the house.
@NJSue My friend told me that on the college’s parent FB page the parents are complaining about their kids being bored on campus and they’re concerned about mental health.
I agree that many schools oversold what the experience would be when students returned.
My brother is an ex pat in Germany. His daughter will start Uni hybrid of remote and in person. She lives off campus in an apt.
June was still a scary time. And there were schools that knew enough in June to make the call to severely limit kids on campus and deliver remote instruction only. Bowdoin did it on June 22. Harvard and MIT didn’t take much longer. There are others but I cannot remember now. Even back then, our discussion was about how big state schools could not afford to disinvite kids to campus and go all remote. Needed room and board. Needed sports. We knew that many large schools felt that had to give it a shot.
Now, though, time to shutter up. Those students blew it. So kids in the dorms go home this week. Maybe the schools pay for tests to be sent to them so they can see if they are positive and they know to isolate at home. Tell them they can’t take class unless they spit in the tube and send it back to school. As for kids on campus? That’s the local authority’s problem. The police have to deal with that.
@suzyQ7 asking faculty to plan simultaneously for in-person and online delivery (dual scenarios) means that neither will be planned well because it’s double the work. You’re right that many faculty have been diligently planning all summer long for an online semester, attending training, etc. But as it wasn’t mandated, many didn’t. The faculty I know who agreed to teach all in-person are mostly older faculty who are not comfortable with the online platforms and can’t make the adjustment, even though their age and health status make them the very ones who should not be on campus. These faculty are not necessarily going to provide some great personalized experience for their students for the month or so that the campus will remain open.
Yes. I am sure that Covid will force many institutions out of business. There are some institutions that will fail no matter what. There are others that could have made better, more proactive decisions but were paralyzed by fear and denial.