School of the Art Institute of Chicago and its peers

College Majors Visual Arts and Film Majors
1

<p>Hi,</p>

<p>I have been accepted to the School of the Art Institute of Chicago and one other art school, which I won't name for certain reasons.</p>

<p>Anyway, I have been wondering what is Chicago's reputation in the art world and how does it compare with its peers? According to their website, their graduate program is #1 and they share that spot with RISD and some other school.</p>

<p>I have heard much raving about Pratt (from a friend), RISD, and Maryland. A little about Ringling. But no one has been able to give me an exact definition of each school and what they have to offer.</p>

<p>I've visited SAIC recently and I found it to be a great overall school. The location in the heart of downtown Chicago is definitely a plus. Still, I am not sure what going to school there would entail. Perhaps I should have stopped in on a few running classes...</p>

<p>If you're into art or have gone to any of the above schools or just have something to say... go right ahead. Do your worst. ;)</p>

2

<p>SAIC is considered by some to be one of the best, if not the best, program for pure fine arts. Pure fine arts is defined as painting, photography and Sculpture. This is what SAIC is well- known for. If you check US News and World Report rating, these are the area that stand out for them. However, other majors there are not as well-known.</p>

3

<p>
[quote]
SAIC is considered by some to be one of the best, if not the best, program for pure fine arts. Pure fine arts is defined as painting, photography and Sculpture. This is what SAIC is well- known for. If you check US News and World Report rating, these are the area that stand out for them. However, other majors there are not as well-known.

[/quote]
</p>

<p>Thanks for the reply.</p>

<p>Well, I suppose I was accepted because my work falls under the "pure" fine arts category. Lots of prints and sculpture. Regardless, I would like to work under as many mediums as possible while in art school. These days I am particularly attracted to the idea of working w/ film. SAIC supposedly has a pretty decent film setup.</p>

<p>On a side note, I worry what career path I'll end up taking if I indeed do go to Chicago (as in art school). I'm sure there are many opportunities there, but there is also a lot of competition. Moreover, I'm a bit of a "purist" in the sense that, if I will do art as the main focus of my life/career/etc.., then that is all that I want to do. I seem to be averse to the idea of graphic design...</p>

4

<p>Most careers are highly competitive. But if you commit to a field for college, that doesn't lock you into a particular career</p>

<p>SAIC is especially strong in painting/drawing, photography, sculpture, printmaking, and ceramics. It's not among the best regarded in film.</p>

<p>There are many more "applied" arts, and so if you're not interested in graphic design but still want to use your artistic talent in more applied subjects then you can find work in illustration, industrial/product design, glass, jewelry, and several other areas. But you'd most likely get that training elsewhere (and perhaps as MFA), not at SAIC.</p>

<p>SAIC has a high acceptance rate. I don't know about its graduation rate. That's another factor to consider.</p>

5

<p>The acceptance rate was something I was bothered by. I keep hearing they accept a lot of people, which obviously makes you think they aren't as selective of a school as some others. I'm not sure what it is worth, but I was offered $4000 and I applied very late in the game...end of April-ish.</p>

<p>Still, I am not trying to get into the Harvard of art schools, if one even exists. Nevertheless, if I could go back, I'd probably have applied to RISD, too.</p>

<p>I am not sure of Chicago's graduation rate, but from what I've been told, the school is a difficult one and you have to bust your behind to remain there--let alone graduate. heh</p>

6

<p>what I have heard in a nutshell: SAIC's undergraduate program is more conceptually based, and is more beneficial to more developed students than to just-out-of-high school students (which is why the graduate program is good). What tends to happen is that the technically so-so students get into concepts before they're really ready, while they still need practice with the basics. but graduate program: ranked one of the best. very good for painting, up there with MICA.</p>

<p>I live very near Chicago and so SAIC would have been an obvious possibility for me, but I decided that I'd rather be challenged by a more selective school. Not that they're easy on you at SAIC (I really don't know anything about the workload) - but the people at some other schools would be, on average, better art students and would therefore pressure me more. I am thinking that I may come back to SAIC for graduate school - don't know now.</p>

<p>but I really don't think that it's way way hard, at least in comparison to some other places. I've taken summer courses there and seen the student work, and I don't remember being blown away by much of it. Some of it, maybe, but not a lot.</p>

<p>so basically, i think that if you got into a school more known for its undergraduate program, then go there instead. Maryland is good (especially for art 'purists') and risd.. Ringling is primarily an animation school - so based on what you said, probably not the best choice for you.. Pratt i took a month-long summer class at and it's alright, but somewhat run-down. (also not too selective.)</p>

<p>what the acceptance rates really tell you is what kinds of people you'll be going to school with. if they accept a lot of people, you'll find yourself with a lot of kids who really aren't all that invested in art - they're just there because they couldn't work up the passion for anything else. there are several schools with programs that are actually better than others, but many of the schools have evenly-matched programs and students of varying average skill levels. if you don't mind that and you can get yourself inspired even while the people around are less interested than you are, then it won't matter to you. personally I need a lot of competition to get my best work. so, depends on you.</p>

7

<p>You can't totally go by acceptance rates. For example, some schools are self selective. This means that only certain caliber of students apply.</p>

<p>Some schools such as Pratt take more kids and thus have a lower selective rate. However, Pratt is well known for weeding kids out with very tough programs. It all evens out.</p>

8

<p>Hey weile,</p>

<p>I'm glad I'm hearing from an art student, finally! ;)</p>

<p>1) I'm glad that their graduate program holds up to all the hype. That's a relief. Still, I'm an undergrad applicant and grad school's a wee bit away.</p>

<p>2) I live nowhere near Chicago, so I am leaving behind quite a bit for Chicago, if I do indeed attend there in the fall. I hope it is worth it and I really appreciate your detailed post. If you don't mind, can I ask where you are planning to attend?</p>

<p>3) I did not see too much student work, when I toured. I just saw a lot of "stuff" happening. A few designs here and there. Nothing mesmerizing.</p>

<p>4) I know one person who transfered to Pratt. I have a friend at NYU and one other classmate is planning to attend SAIC. Don't know her plans for sure, though. I really don't think anyone I know is at Maryland or RISD. Maybe somebody at RISD...still not sure.</p>

<p>I am going to quote the last part of your post, because I want to make sure I address all of it.</p>

<p>
[quote]
what the acceptance rates really tell you is what kinds of people you'll be going to school with. if they accept a lot of people, you'll find yourself with a lot of kids who really aren't all that invested in art - they're just there because they couldn't work up the passion for anything else.

[/quote]
</p>

<p>I don't want to sound too uppity, but I must say... I noticed a lot of people just walking around at Chicago. It could have been just a bad day, which I happened upon. Even then, I did not see too much art developing and that gives me bad vibes. I haven't visited too many art schools, but I can't say everyone looked focus at SAIC.</p>

<p>I am not looking to have fun, if I go to art school. I want to approach this as seriously as possible.</p>

<p>
[quote]
there are several schools with programs that are actually better than others, but many of the schools have evenly-matched programs and students of varying average skill levels. if you don't mind that and you can get yourself inspired even while the people around are less interested than you are, then it won't matter to you. personally I need a lot of competition to get my best work. so, depends on you.

[/quote]
</p>

<p>I also do my best work in a competitive environment, because only a competitive environment can be stimulating (imo). On the other hand, if everyone else slacks off, I am guaranteed to be in the top of my class. Not sure if I should be happy about it or what. ;T</p>

9

<p>taxguy,</p>

<p>Thanks for the input. </p>

<p>I also feel that most programs seem to eventually balance out. I mean, if you're not going to do your part, you're obviously not going to get very far. I just hope that at SAIC it is not some sort of trend to not do anything. To be frank, you cannot glean everything from just touring. You have to ask around, to be safe.</p>

10

<p>Bumpin....</p>

11

<p>Here are my thoughts, worth very little, but you asked me to do my worst ..so here goes!</p>

<p>I know almost nothing about art schools in general but I toured SAIC about a year ago with my daughter. Frankly I couldn't understand what all the fuss was about. True it is connected to a very prestigious institution, but it reminded me of the kind of place that had its heyday once but now had lost it sometime back in the ‘70s. I thought the facilities were cramped, old, dark and not very well-maintained. I didn't particularly care for the layout and having to walk through downtown to go to the different buildings. I kept asking myself, this is what everyone talks about, with old equipment and dirty hallways and tiny classrooms? Though I loved downtown Chicago! Our tour guide, a junior, was largely inarticulate—he was into Japanese robotics or something like that—he couldn’t really explain what his focus was all about. I guess what especially raised my hackles was when we toured for example the textiles area, someone asked what they were weaving on the looms--i.e. was it a blanket, a scarf or what. The frosty answer was none of the works on the looms were intended to be useful--everything was for artistic purposes only. Something about not having boundaries and freeing one’s mind. Same thing when we went by the media area for sound, I asked if anything got used in theater, radio, film, or TV, or if anyone worked in these fields after college. No again, whatever sound effects they create or synthesize are used purely for art's sake. I just got personally frustrated with the attitude that seemed so "ivory tower", and really had to wonder how on earth are these students supposed to LIVE when they graduate? Now I have nothing against those who embrace this philosophy and have the luxury to do so, but this school's "agenda" was clear and it just didn't fit me (or my daughter). </p>

<p>Now we also visited another art school in California and I thought the difference was like night and day. CalArts is in a very quiet, stepford-wives type of suburb, where unfortunately there’s nothing to do, but the school itself is very nice. The spaces are so much larger, with the most up-to-date technology, and the buildings are new, but it was the students and the attitude there that attracted me the most. Yes I saw the same messy photo, animation, and drawing areas as I saw at SAIC, but there seemed to be LIFE in them, exuberance, and real creativity, that I did not pick up in Chicago. There seemed to be much more freedom to experiment and learn new things than the “vee must do it ziss vay” attitude I picked up from SAIC. And there seemed to be no snobbery about applying one’s art, in fact the students appeared to want to make connections, work, and especially, cross-over into other areas. So a textile designer might be helping another student with costumes for his film. A filmmaker would be helping someone else with her animation. A pianist writes a piece for someone’s play who needs background music. Just a completely different vibration and again this is all subjective but I’m just telling you how it felt so you get an idea how much atmosphere can make a difference at a school. Maybe it’s just a West Coast vs East Coast cultural thing? No idea.</p>

<p>So I hope you know what you want and expect out of an art school, and can foresee yourself living and working compatibly with your chosen school’s style. The other thing about art schools is, that of course--art is all you're going to get. Yes it’s probably going to be higher quality and better training than a non-art school, and you will certainly be pushed harder, but there is still a trade-off. You have to want to do nothing but that, and like being around those people 24/7. Forget about diversity of students (meaning in non-art majors), forget about exposure to peripheral subjects (like literature), and don’t expect too much in the way of academics. It’s just not what they’re about. Sorry for so much rambling but hope a tiny bit is helpful.</p>

12

<p>
[quote]
Maybe it’s just a West Coast vs East Coast cultural thing? No idea.

[/quote]
Last time I visited, SAIC was in the Midwest. So it's not a West Coast vs. East Coast thing. It may just be a SAIC vs. other places thing. If you've thought about this as much as you have, and looked at some of the other threads on this board, you should know that different schools of art have different main tendencies or orientations. There are plenty of "practically oriented" or applied arts programs in the East.</p>

<p>The difficult choice for high school students who are considering where to study in college is that in high school they typically have much more exposure to fine arts (or to basic training in them) than to applied arts (industrial design, fashion design, graphic design, illustration, etc.). They may want to test the waters in different artistic disciplines before choosing a major or concentration. Some schools, such as RISD, are strong across the range of fine arts and applied arts, but they don't give students much of a chance to reflect on their options: students must choose their major by March of their first year. Others give students more time to make such decisions and may also provide a larger number of interdisciplinary options, though may not end up providing students with as much depth in their chosen fields by the time they achieve their BFA.</p>

<p>My daughter attended the summer precollege program at SAIC for two summers (and took figure drawing and sculpture). She learned a lot there in a short time. She also loves Chicago. But she wanted more options in art than were available at SAIC, so she didn't even apply there for college.</p>

13

<p>Thank you, Taramom. You have addressed many of the things I also had noticed and some others which I had not. I appreciate your thoughtfulness.</p>

<p>mackinaw,</p>

<p>Can I ask you what field your daughter is interested in within art? I am going to guess it was the applied arts stuff, which SAIC did not really offer. You did allude to that in your first reply to this thread. Could you please elaborate some more? I am also interested in hearing from you about Chicago's "graphic design program", if any. Thank you.</p>

<p>EDIT: You also seem to know a lot about RISD. Can you tell me more about them and what their admission policy is like? I am also curious about how they do graphic design and the applied arts.</p>

14

<p>Hi College-ish. There's quite a lot of information about RISD's programs on the "Overview" thread that Taxguy started, which you can find here: <a href="http://talk.collegeconfidential.com/showthread.php?t=8269%5B/url%5D"&gt;http://talk.collegeconfidential.com/showthread.php?t=8269&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/p>

<p>After you're read that, then I'm sure that Taxguy will join me and others in trying to answer some questions. I think weile is also just admitted there and will enter RISD in September. And some other RISD-ites to be, as well as parents of same, have posted at one time or another.</p>

<p>My daughter graduated from RISD in 2003, with a major in industrial design (ID). She's now working in NY doing ID and graphic design. When she entered RISD she didn't know what major she might choose. She is really strong in drawing and everything she does in 3D is strong, so we thought she might end up in sculpture. But she decided to go "practical" and that has worked out so far. She's trying to weave herself into work that focuses on ecological design or green design.</p>

<p>As far as RISD admissions go, I think the overall criteria aren't very different from most every other good art school. They are looking above all for artistic talent or potential, but they also tend to like students who have good "academic" credentials.</p>

15

<p>Wow mackinaw... that pretty much answers all my questions.</p>

<p>RISD sounds like an excellent school. I am a bit afraid of the "rigidness", which taxguy seemed to keep referring to. I am not looking for excessive structure--one reason why Memphis College of Art turned me off.</p>

<p>Perhaps I'd do better as a graduate student there? I dunno.</p>

16

<p>I think Taxguy captured the essence of RISD but perhaps overstated the rigidity a bit. He's right that RISD pushes you into a choice of major rather quickly and that the majors are not in themselves interdisciplinary. But RISD students can and do take studio courses outside their major as well as non-studio courses at RISD and Brown. He also seems to have come around a toward the idea of intensive training in a specialty at the BFA level, with more "interdisciplinarity" at the MFA level. But he can speak for himself on this issue, especially since as he continues to make the rounds he picks up more and more information about how things are done at different schools.</p>

<p>I think you also have to keep separate the idea of "structure" in the sense of curricular choices and structure in the sense of overall demandingness of the program. The best art schools (like the best liberal arts colleges, for that matter) place very high expectations on how you spend your time -- that is, they are demanding -- even if some give you more choice of courses and majors than others. You have to expect to work 60-70 (or more) hours per week; there are constant deadlines; there are "crits" to go through on every project. (As someone who attended a liberal arts college in which long hours were the norm, this 60-70 hours seems quite reasonable to me!).</p>

<p>Another aspect to consider, which has already been raised on this thread, is the overall student culture or environment. I refer to the level of talent and commitment to art as well as the competitive atmosphere. At RISD the talent and commitment are both strong, and the atmosphere tends toward the cooperative/constructive rather than competitive/dog-eat-dog that you may find at some institutions, but I probably should refrain from comments on other institutiions based only on third-hand reporting rather than what I've been able to observe directly or indirectly.</p>

17

<p>college-ish - you're a lot like me in some respects.. needing competition, etc. same about being at the top of the class if others slack. The problem with that is that you inspire other people to work harder but there's no one to challenge you.</p>

<p>anyway, i am going to RISD this fall. </p>

<p>you say you like a competitive environment the best - so i would seriously advise you not to go to SAIC. </p>

<p>can't think of anything else to add - but good luck with your decision.</p>

18

<p>
[quote]
posted by mackinaw:
I think Taxguy captured the essence of RISD but perhaps overstated the rigidity a bit. He's right that RISD pushes you into a choice of major rather quickly and that the majors are not in themselves interdisciplinary. But RISD students can and do take studio courses outside their major as well as non-studio courses at RISD and Brown. He also seems to have come around a toward the idea of intensive training in a specialty at the BFA level, with more "interdisciplinarity" at the MFA level. But he can speak for himself on this issue, especially since as he continues to make the rounds he picks up more and more information about how things are done at different schools.

[/quote]
</p>

<p>Well, what if I went to a school like Chicago which is more interdisciplinary and has no real "majors", how would I choose something like graphic design as a focus or a major? I mean to say how would I become a graphic designer or say an industrial design person like your daughter? Would I just be a BFA holder?</p>

<p>
[quote]
posted by weile:
college-ish - you're a lot like me in some respects.. needing competition, etc. same about being at the top of the class if others slack. The problem with that is that you inspire other people to work harder but there's no one to challenge you.</p>

<p>anyway, i am going to RISD this fall. </p>

<p>you say you like a competitive environment the best - so i would seriously advise you not to go to SAIC. </p>

<p>can't think of anything else to add - but good luck with your decision.

[/quote]
</p>

<p>I see. Well, I think I might just apply to RISD. Can you explain to me the particulars of applying (and getting in ;) )? I plan on working on my portfolio anyway, so... that's not an issue. But it would help to know what they like and perhaps even require.</p>

<p>I wonder if MICA and some of the others are worth applying to. Does anyone here know about NYU or Wash U's program?</p>

19

<p>College-Ish, MICA's strengths are greater on the fine arts than the design side but they do have good design programs, in my opinion. Here's another thread started by Taxguy with comparisons to RISD: <a href="http://talk.collegeconfidential.com/showthread.php?t=34344&highlight=MICA%5B/url%5D"&gt;http://talk.collegeconfidential.com/showthread.php?t=34344&highlight=MICA&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/p>

<p>If you wanted to get into ID you'd probably have to major in it at the BFA or MFA level (at MICA, Pratt, RISD, or some other program). On graphic design (GD), I'd defer to Taxguy in particular about how you'd best gain expertise iin it. How you'd do it at SAIC in particular you'd have to determine from their program options. Possibly again you'd take some coursework there and either go into industry from that based on your own portfolio and experience, or else go on to get an MFA in GD.</p>

<p>On RISD aps, the only thing that's different from most art schools is that RISD requires, in addition to the normal portfolio, three pencil/white paper 16" x 20" drawings to be submitted. You can see the guidelines on their admissions website.</p>

20

<p>College-ish, There is no question in my mind that if you want a lot of flexibilty in your courses and majors and are interested in fine arts, MICA might well be right school. Pratt also allows alot of flexibilty in that you can take any course in the unviersity. Syracuse also allows a fair degree of flexibilty as well. I just don't know how good Syracuse and Pratt are in pure fine arts. If you want very strong fine arts and don't care too much about flexibilty in curriculum or interdisciplinary work, RISD would probably be the better choice.</p>