Nope… My S17’s grade sank freshman year. Was doing fine in junior high. For a number of reasons, that we addressed and he has been crawling back up. Really hurt his GPA, and will affect where he goes to college. I wouldn’t take anything for granted. I’ve also seen kids who seem to do fine the first few years, only to over schedule Junior year and tank. And I’ve seen kids who’s family lives have taken unexpected turns, who’s grades have been affected.
I personally believe it’s important to keep a balance in their life. Let them have time to hang with friends & activities they love. And consider the emotional health of your teen, the best thing for keeping things on even keel.
I think one of the most important things to do now is to take the emphasis off specific schools and move it to flexibility, specifically, that your oldest will have many more options if he keeps the Midwest on his list.
While you can be applauded for learning all you can so early and planning financially, you also risk sucking the life out of the college process and ruining it for your kids by it being all about you and not them. I hope you are not discussing this ad nauseam with them already. Four+ years of listening to parents plan and worry about college can make a kid have all kind of issues when it is time to make, what should be, their choice.
@blueskies2day Your comment reminded me of Philip Larkin’s famous poem; not sure the sentiment applies here (though I’ve probably done my part to fulfill that poem’s message in other ways that may become clearer as my children become older). Or not. Philip Larkin is pretty bleak. Everything could work out. It usually does; one way or another.
@beebee3 your post reminded me to update that thread!
Grades can change a lot in HS. This is why I would suggest that doing general big picture homework now (costs, general merit options etc) is very good for you but too much more than that can be a bit of wasted effort. General info can be motivational to the student though.
In our case, 3 out of our 4 kids had some rough periods in HS. I would suggest checking out the 2019 thread and you will see that is not unusual. Different reasons for each of our kids but I can say that S19 did NOT end his freshman year at all where we expected he would. Not remotely close. Colleges I’d have looked at, at the end of 8th, or even end of 1st semester of 9th, may now be permanently out of his range. They may not be. Time will tell. I have a dear friend, whose S17 is an amazingly talented musician. It is all he wants to do, besides run. Disastrous junior year academically. He may not be able to consider our top music program directional. You just never know.
A few things for you to consider (though not drag kids into yet) is that getting down to that 35k number is HARD unless kids have tippy top stats. I have found a ton of schools in the low/mid 40’s that I like. Getting it to 40 and under…that’s a totally different animal. 36 is about as high as I want to go and I really need it to be under 30 to be comfortable. Even at a meets full need school, once I have 2 in school, they may not come down to that level. You will find some similar results. Your EFC may adjust as more kids get into college but for FAFSA schools that will not help you. It could at a profile school but only if it is a meet full need and only if all 3 are in to really make any difference. For us, it’s not enough. Lower EFC than yours but the net result is basically the same.
So to that end, finding schools that will offer my S17 some merit, possibly some music money, is key. We will adopt a similar approach for S19 but other than discussions to motivate him for a different sophomore year result, it’s premature to discuss more than big picture. Also, bear in mind tuition increases over time and that what you see now, will look a lot different in 4 years, as may the merit offered. We’ve seen some merit options disappear just in the past 4 months as schools change their programs/up stats etc.
I agree that it’s too early to be looking at specific colleges in terms of your kids’ interests, but it’s never too early to look at costs. Your kids should have that $35K number in their heads all through high school, to avoid any issues regarding expectations. And you, as parents, should be aware that individual schools may think you can afford more than $35K, and won’t give you the aid you need, so start making a list of schools that give merit money. I’d take any OOS public off the list, unless you know they give merit and financial aid to OOS kids. They’re just too expensive otherwise.
You mentioned that your kids were bilingual in French and English. Have you looked at unis in France? Their system is less flexible than ours, but if you know what you want to study, it’s a real bargain. My daughter just finished her junior year at Aix-Marseille Universite, which she doesn’t recommend, but there are other better ones, such as Sciences Po, where she took a few classes, and the entire University of Paris system, which includes the Sorbonne.
We’ve started looking at schools in both France (specifically University of Paris system) and Germany. Both countries seem to have great bargains, and with what we would save in tuition costs, it wouldn’t be hard to support living expenses. The big issue we have seen in both programs (and are trying to think about now) is the lack of college “community/experience” as most of our kids think of it here, as well as the difference in how classes are organized (big test at the end of the year, basically self directed learning from the get go as we understand it through our preliminary investigation). Hearing that 60% fail out of Sorbonne is a little chilling.
It could work, oldest is fairly self directed (practices a couple hours daily for music, more if preparing for performance on own schedule/directive) but I guess this is where protective parent wonders how good an idea it is to send young adult off to their own apartment outside of a “college” campus in a foreign city with a much more hands off educational approach. Thinking about this now is also for us parents to get comfy with this idea because I am sure oldest sees own apartment in amazing international location as purely feature - no bugs.
My S spent a year at the ENS in Lyon, and they do have dorms and a campus. I’m not sure how one goes about getting into one of the Grandes Ecoles as a foreigner, though.
I’m not sure about their music programs, but I do know that if you are French, McGill will cost the same amount that a Canadian resident would pay, which is quite low by US standards. Even their international rates are comparable to or less than many states’ in-state rates. I believe if you’re studying French as a major, there’s also a significant discount for tuition at McGill.
As far as schools where you can have both a conservatory and a liberal arts education, you might want to look at Oberlin, USC, Northwestern, University of Rochester and Eastman school of music, Tufts and the New England conservatory. Oberlin, USC and Rochester offer merit aid.
All of these schools, however, will require a higher ACT score (especially for merit) than he’s got right now – unless he’s just looking for a straight conservatory, in which case the ACT is not quite as important
Oldest hasn’t taken ACT yet, received 24 (out of possible 25) on Explore test (high school entrance exam created by ACT) in 8th grade - the guesstimate provided by ACT/Explore would be somewhere between 32-34 for ACT score by junior/senior year according to results sent home after testing.
We are definitely not counting on that (I have no idea how ACT determines their ‘projections’). But it at least gave us a snapshot of what is a possibility according to current trajectory. Thanks for the suggestions, adding them to the list.
@eandesmom Yes, the budget seems to be the big killer right now. $35K seems like a decent amount but we’ve found the same thing you have…very few schools (even with merit) that get down to $35K. If we could do $45K, I probably wouldn’t even be trying to get a list together quite yet (of possibilities), that additional 10K would buy a lot of breathing room. But we don’t have that additional 10K…unless we hit the lottery. Spouse says that plan would have better of success if I was ever willing to buy a ticket.
Good to start thinking about this now, but beware of burnout! I can almost guarantee that your child’s interests and preferences will change between now and senior year. I can also guarantee that $35K a year won’t go as far in 2020. We’ve already noticed tuition creep with our S & D (2014). This was both due to changes in EFC for FAFSA (minor but still higher and x2) and tuitions. A few thoughts / suggestions / questions.
Get the Fiske Guide and encourage your child to dip into it at his/her own leisure. Highlight, turn down the page corners. Our kids spent hours looking through this.
Start some informal visits when you can. Plan a family vacation around a few visits. Your child will start to get a sense of different types of campuses and locations. We didn't start to visit until summer after sophomore year. Junior year fall weekends, spring break Junior year, and summer before senior year we saw more. Our kids' ideas of the "perfect" school changed during this time.
McGill is great. Our S applied and got in with some merit $$ as well. Made the short list. He also applied and got into British Columbia - Have you visited McGill? Maybe a family holiday. Or just one of you + the kid. Our S did a one week program in Computer Science at McGill summer after sophomore year. It was competitive but free if you got in. Only catch, it was not residential - so we had to stay in Montreal for a week! McGill is VERY score driven. If he/she has the scores he/she should get in.
You mention music, but say maybe not conservatory. What interests your child other than music? Math & Science? History & Politics? Humanities? That will be key in schools you apply to.
Others have given you links to schools that offer full rides or large merit awards based on scores. There are a lot of LACs that do as well including: Gettysburg, Dickinson, Lafayette, Muhlenberg, Hobart & William Smith, the list goes on. All have their areas of study they are best known for.
Univ. of Rochester was one of our favorites for our D. Ultimately, the FA fell short though. We loved that school. And if you're a music kid, even if you major in something else, it's fantastic.
Don't get too wedded to any school or list until you have test scores. For better or for worse, they matter a lot. Will your child take PSAT in 9th or 10th grade or not until 11th? That will be your first barometer.
Please go to the music forum. You will get great advice there. Although some here are saying they guarantee your son’s interests will change, any student who applies to a conservatory level program has maintained their interest in music for many years. I would not be surprised if he wanted to continue music in some form. He will have to determine if he wants a stand alone conservatory or a large university or an LAC, all of which provide different favors of music major.
I would consult his private music teacher who might have suggestions. My son visited some music schools the summer before 11th grade. The visits involved a private lesson with a music professor, which was always helpful. He and I started exploring audition requirements quite early as they varied so much for his major. It was good to get a handle on the expectations. I think certain instruments have more consistent audition requirements across institutions.
Temple has an excellent, affordable music program. University of Hartford does as well (generous with merit), though he might feel the academics outside of music fall short. Eastman is a top notch program connected to U of Rochester, a very good research university.
If he wants to use music as a ‘hook’ for merit, I suspect it’s less effective at a school with a high level conservatory, like Oberlin.
Have fun with this! I know the financial side can make it stressful, and the audition process can feel arduous. Gathering information at this point is great. But, try to keep it light as it is a long road if he chooses to go with audition based programs.
The cheap tuition in France and Germany is a false friend for almost all US students (even those with real fluency), especially for an 18yo who doesn’t have much experience handling the world on their own & has no support base locally:
the unis will expect the student to navigate the system with minimal assistance (much, much less support than in the US). The number of US students is so small that the admin have no experience even understanding the kinds of expectations or questions you might have.
courses are very narrow with few class choices. You sign up to study (say) music, you study music, in the classes that you are told to take (or choosing from a short list of related options), in the order you are told to take them.
the classes are typically large, ‘chalk & talk’, and even where they are not the professor is generally not your friend. The learning is teacher centered, not interactive (yes, even at Sciences Po- know some very disillusioned students there who feel that the famous name speakers don’t make up for the rest of it) and the assessments are typically few and big.
many of the unis now have some form of housing available, but the vast majority of students live off campus and do not relate to the campus as a ‘hub’.
Amsterdam does have a new ‘honors’ university that offers broader courses at a very low cost and might be worth looking into.
Note that courses at Edinburgh, though much more flexible than France or Germany, are still pretty narrowly defined by US standards. You get 5 UK university applications for the price of 1 on UCAS, so I would suggest adding Durham, which is about the same annual out of pocket cost as Edinburgh, but is only 3 years, not 4, and it is a ‘collegiate’ university, so you ‘belong’ to a college within the university.
btw, I agree with the other posters who have said to be careful about projecting too much from middle school to secondary school. You have several coming through, and it is more likely than not that at least one of them will hit some sort of rough patch in the road from tween to young adult!
Private music teacher has been pushing Interlochen for high school (lol, if we could afford that - we wouldn’t be trying to organize this far ahead for college) and has been really wonderful in helping oldest have the chance to study under some really amazing musicians/participate in cool programs.
@collegemom3717 Thanks for all your insights, that’s exactly the info I was looking to discover from other parents btdt. So helpful, and we are trying not to go overboard.
