Daughter is interested in these schools. Not positive about major, likely Econ. Visited them all but Mac and there were things about all of them that we all liked. She’s an athlete, albeit for a sport that doesn’t garner much attention in the northeast (Golf), but wants to go to school “and” play golf, not “to” play golf. She seems to lean toward HC and Ham as #1 an 1a, but there are usually smart, informative responses on this board so I thought I would throw it out there.
The only school we visited was LaSalle which was as a potential safety for my S. This was a few years ago but we didn’t feel comfortable with the area surrounding the campus (and my S went to Fordham in the Bronx). Things may have changed but you should definitely do an in-person visit before considering LaSalle.
I’d say that Hamilton, Macalester and HC would be the academically higher ranked schools of the group. Personally I woudl not sacrifice academics for a chance to play golf (assuming she does not aspire to be a pro golfer) but hopefully your D can find a school that offers everything she wants.
My D is at Holy Cross. Loves it. The school has a very strong sense of community which was important to her, which continues with a very strong alumni network. It is sporty, but not overwhelmingly so, but many kids not on sports team, do use the athletic facilities.
Academics are quite strong, with the school being a top producer of Fulbright scholars. Community service is something a majority take part in. The freshman seminar program is very well done and helps to bond students and make the transition to college easier. All the benefits of a liberal arts college with small class sizes, easy and frequent access to professors, focus on critical thinking and becoming a strong writer.
She also looked at Hamilton and HWS. Liked Hamilton very much, especially for its emphasis on writing and public speaking, but preferred the size and location of HC. She liked HWS, but didn’t love it. Didn’t grab her in any particular way. Feel free to PM me if you have more specific questions.
These schools don’t have much in common, except that they are all relatively small and several are in upstate NY. So it’s not clear what your D is looking for, other than golf.
In terms of golf, note that Holy Cross and La Salle are NCAA Division I schools, while the others are Division III. In DIII programs, the standards for athletic ability are typically low, there are no athletic scholarships, and the athletic teams are commonly open to any interested player. In DI, the standards are higher, talented players are recruited and offered athletic scholarships, and it may not be easy to make the team as a walk-on. If your daughter hopes to play NCAA golf at a DI school, she should probably check with the coach to see if she is likely to make the team.
La Salle’s a good safety if she likes it and it would allow her to golf; but academically, even with the Honors Program, it is not close to Macalester, Holy Cross or Hamilton. The Olney section of Philadelphia is not the greatest of neighborhoods, but a decent portion of La Salle’s campus is pretty self-contained and seems no dicier than a number of other urban campuses.
Don’t know enough about HWS or Ithaca to comment.
For an indication of faculty scholarship in economics, you can read through this analysis:
https://ideas.repec.org/top/top.uslacecon.html
Have to disagree with the characterization of D3 sports as low caliber ability and teams being open to any interested player. The only sport I’ve encountered that may be open to interested students, regardless of past experience, is crew. Hamilton and Mac are certainly recruiting for their programs generally and if they are like other top 50 LACs, often expecting a student to commit ED in order to have a guaranteed roster spot. And in terms of quality of competition, at least in Men’s Soccer, which is what we know, the upper level D3 programs overlap with lower D1 programs.
The OP’s characterization of his student, as someone who wants to go to school “and” play golf, rather than go to school “to” play golf, sounds like the D3 experience. I don’t know time commitments in women’s golf, but in season in soccer, track and field (programs we know kids in), students are putting 25+ hours a week into their sport. We always heard D1 was 40 hours, and the old adage that for a D1 athlete, there is class, sport, and social life, and a D1 athlete had to choose 2 out of the 3.
It will vary depending on the D3 school, and it’s a good idea to contact the coach if you hope to play NCAA sports at any school. But the point is that the bar is generally higher at D1 schools.
As someone who played D1 and D3 golf, I can tell you the competition at D1 is noticeably better. In the end golf is about yourself vs. the course, so it’s a matter of wanting to play with girls that all shoot in the 70’s versus a few in the 70’s and many in the 80’s+. Golf is a sport that even at the D1 level that doesn’t lend itself to early morning workouts and fixed schedules like other sports. D1 golf 25 years ago was as close as you could get to a perfect college sport…free meals…great golf courses…weekend road trips…and one of the few sports that you can play after a late night out.
Back to the post… I took a look at Hamilton’s golf team, and as I assume with most D3 women’s teams, they lack golfers. They are going to struggle in the fall this year to field a team, as 3 of the 6 girls on the roster graduated. I can’t imagine they won’t need help a year from now. That’s about as good a hook as you could hope for. If your daughter can play D1, then D3 options will be plentiful.
As a Philly native, I would be VERY careful with LaSalle. It was a good school 20+ years ago, but is struggling financially. I wouldn’t want my daughter in that neighborhood either.
Based on HC and Hamilton, I would look at the NESCAC and Centennial conference schools that have golf. It may not get much attention as a sport, but the coaches at those schools would love to have players…especially good ones. I would imagine if her academics are in the range of the schools…golf is a good hook. Good luck.
There’s D1 and then there’s D1. Not all created the same. Schools like UCLA and Notre Dame are a much different caliber in most sports from the mid major conferences. Then comes other conferences like Ivy, Patriot, MAAC. Some D1 teams may have more in common with D3.
In terms of the schools themselves, Lasalle and Mac seem a little bit of outliers – Holy Cross, Hobart William Smith, Ithaca and Hamilton have the reputation of being middle of the road places where nice kids can get good educations. Holy Cross is Catholic (duh, but sometimes people forget), so a student needs to be comfortable with that. Hobart and Ithaca have reputations as somewhat less strong, academically, than Holy Cross, Hamilton and Mac, but many of us (myself included) carry the weight of reputations from our college days with us into our kid’s search, and many of those old stereotypes and reputations are outdated and invalid. HWS did have a rape scandal a few years ago so I would want to dig to see if they have changed their procedures – many schools struggle with how to police/investigate/balance rights of the (usually) female and male student in that circumstance, but HWS had stonewalled as best I recall so I’d want to make sure that the school had improved its procedures. Mac is a little hipper, perhaps a little more PC, than the others, the Twin Cities would be a great place to go to college. I’m from Philly and have no current information about Lasalle, though it seems to be a different tier than the rest on the OP’s list.
Macalester is pretty benign for a so called “urban school”. Not a highrise in sight, and located in a good part of town. “Minnesota Nice” does exist there, for the most part. 60% women, if that matters to you. Econ is one of their strengths. Shorter golf season than the other schools, I would guess.
Including Hamilton.
https://www.thefire.org/cases/hamilton-college-thought-reform-of-pro-rape-male-freshmen-5/
With respect to the program mentioned above, the legitimate perception that it would be accusatory (Who is the “you” here?) and, worse, discriminatory (males only), would seem to be a sufficient basis for the student response.
My question would be: what was Hamilton thinking by inviting Keith Edwards and then telling first-year males that they “must attend” the lecture?
You would have thunk that after the Ward Churchill debacle, the college would be more sensitive to who is invited to speak.
This episode seven years ago reflects presently on the school how? I’m not sure how this is relevant in this conversation. To find your answers you may ask the retied Dean of Students or the retired President.
HWS has responded to that issue previously. What you hope is that they all learn from mis-handling abuse issues previously.
Both LaSalle and HC are low level D1. The others are all D3. Neither D1 school funds the teams to any degree so there isn’t a financial difference between them other than LaSalle is cheaper. But for the best alumni network, quality of education, and great college experience what do we think?
For general academic excellence and balance, an exceptionally strong economics program, an on-campus golf course and NESCAC sports traditions, as well as for a recognition of her current predilections, your daughter should not regard a Hamilton acceptance lightly, should she receive one.
@CrewDad, wow, where did that reference come from? I hope you didn’t hit your head with an oar today,
@corbett, as @Midwestmomofboys noted, D3 recruiting standards are quite high in many of the conferences. NESCAC is probably the strongest D3 conference in the country and has no problem filling rosters with recruits - doesn’t mean walk-on’ don’t happen, but the occurrences are limited today.
No idea how good Hamilton’s on-campus golf course is, but I know my DD thinks it makes for a great XC course!
Hamilton, Holy Cross and Macalester are peers, but are very different; HWS. Ithaca and LaSalle are peers - that said the pairings aren’t in the same academic selectivity groupings, so the first question is why these six schools?