School: top40. Major: math. GPA: 3.5. Current Salary: $16/h

College Confidential Community
61

<p>ditto boysx3. Stop blaming the major for your poor attitude. No major is a direct in to any career. You didn't set yourself up for failure by choosing math- you set yourself up for failure by refusing to consider any of the options people are listing. If you're really so upset that your friend is earning more than you, maybe you should go to that bank for a job. Life is what you make of it.</p>

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<p>Moire,</p>

<p>As I perceive, from Math, only can I switch either to CS or Statistics, (perhaps Physics). </p>

<p>My career option now is only teaching. I used to dream about those jobs like cryptography, actuary, modeling, etc., but now I feel skeptical.</p>

<p>Why don't you consider being a college professor? Isn't it prestigious enough and potential enough to satify your math passion? That's the best way to enjoy what you are doing, obviously, math, pure math. </p>

<p>I don't want to spend years in school doing all the puzzles, riddles, rubik's cubes, matrixes, numbers, and then end up with being a truck driver. I dont think I am tall enough to be a trucker, and I am female.</p>

<p>There are websites out there say all the good things about math major, and that flatterred me a lot. Now that I see real people like you struggling with real life. I should stop being naive.</p>

<p>As you said, math is the easiest subject in the world. That statement works perfectly for me. Now I think, the fact that I am doing math not only for favoring it but also the incompetence of doing other stuff.</p>

<p>I feel so down now :(</p>

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<p>Why would you feel down because someone who is arrogant, uncompromising and not resourceful who just so happens to be a math major isn't succeeding in life? Just a few things you can do with a math major:</p>

<p>Actuary - possibly one of the best jobs anywhere. Great pay, great job security, great work-life balance. What more could you want from work? Just make sure you pass the tests, and you'll be fine.</p>

<p>Consulting - albeit, you need more social skills for this, but you can definitely join firms which advise companies on product design through statistical analysis.</p>

<p>Finance - this definitely requires a certain personality, but some of the people I know with math majors are doing a fantastic killing for themselves at top Wall Street firms.</p>

<p>and many more. Your degree is not limited to your subject. You can make of it whatever you wish, otherwise there'd be millions of liberal arts majors sleeping on the streets.</p>

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<p>I never heard that story before. If you meet the prerequisites for another major, I don't see why your university wouldn't let you switch to that major. You don't want to perceive, you want to know, so ask around.</p>

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My career option now is only teaching. I used to dream about those jobs like cryptography, actuary, modeling, etc., but now I feel skeptical.

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<p>That's false. If that were the case, I would have been a teacher, too. And I say "would have been" because with my laid back attitude, I probably wouldn't have lasted long. I do believe you should feel skeptical about jobs like cryptography, but actuary and modeling are jobs that I believe should be within most math majors' reach. Rumor has it that if you can pass the first actuarial exam, and if you are a math major, you pretty much have a job guaranteed in the actuarial field, just because the actuarial exams are supposed to be so difficult. The question I've been asking myself all along, is that since acturial exams are supposed to be so difficult, and since I don't have a genius level IQ, then why bother trying to pass them?</p>

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I don't want to spend years in school doing all the puzzles, riddles, rubik's cubes, matrixes, numbers, and then end up with being a truck driver. I dont think I am tall enough to be a trucker, and I am female.

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<p>It depends. If you are good looking, if you present yourself well, and if you don't have some serious red flag in your resume, it's likely that someone will hire you to do a white collar job.</p>

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There are websites out there say all the good things about math major, and that flatterred me a lot. Now that I see real people like you struggling with real life. I should stop being naive.

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<p>It's good that you can see that. Don't believe anything those websites tell you.</p>

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As you said, math is the easiest subject in the world. That statement works perfectly for me. Now I think, the fact that I am doing math not only for favoring it but also the incompetence of doing other stuff.

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<p>People who are good at math have also made that realization. The only people you are going to impress with your degree in math are people who suck at math, and those people are usually not the ones who are going to give you jobs in cryptography, the actuarial sciences or mathematical modeling.</p>

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I feel so down now

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<p>Imagine how I feel now that I've been a few years out of college.</p>

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<p>How old are you Moire? Just wondering.</p>

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<p>
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Actuary - possibly one of the best jobs anywhere. Great pay, great job security, great work-life balance. What more could you want from work? Just make sure you pass the tests, and you'll be fine.

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<p>ajoke, CollectivSynergy acknowledges that actuary is one of the best jobs out there, yet s/he makes it sound like anyone with a degree in math is cut to be an actuary. In addition to making sure that you pass the tests, which are not a joke (no pun intended), make sure you also have the "soft skills" required to do well at such jobs. You will be making presentations in front of your colleagues and you will be required to talk to clients, a lot. If you don't feel comfortable doing that, don't be an actuary.</p>

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Consulting - albeit, you need more social skills for this, but you can definitely join firms which advise companies on product design through statistical analysis.

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</p>

<p>Think about it: who is going to pay some dude/gal with only a degree in math to do consulting? Ask yourself, with only a bachelor's degree in math, what can I possibly know that people at the company I'd be working at wouldn't know? And forget the talk about statistical analysis; you already stated that you don't like that field.</p>

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Finance - this definitely requires a certain personality, but some of the people I know with math majors are doing a fantastic killing for themselves at top Wall Street firms.

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<p>If it requires "a certain personality," it's probably not for people like you and I. Are you obsessed with money? Would you like to work in a cutthroat environment? Would you like to work side by side with people with that mentality? If you answered no to any of those questions, finance is not for you. And forget about working for top Wall Street firms. The top 1% of candidates for finance jobs work at Wall Street firms. But what about the bottom 99%?</p>

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and many more. Your degree is not limited to your subject. You can make of it whatever you wish, otherwise there'd be millions of liberal arts majors sleeping on the streets.

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<p>They don't sleep on the streets. They settle for low-paying unrewarding jobs unrelated to their fields of study.</p>

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<p>there are seriously a lot of non-degree programs out there that you can do if you ever want to change your job. for example, i've heard of people going back to school and passing cisco exams and then end up working for microsoft with great pay. there might be something like that with computer programming. try to find a starter position as a programmer, or even try an internship if they let you. do some self-studying, take some non-degree courses, and try speaking with the career counselors at that school. we can only do so much, moire, but you've got to get up away from the computer and tell people out there, not here, what you want. we can only give you suggestions, and the rest is up to you. but it sounds like you'd rather just settle with your job than even try to make an initiative to get yourself out of that rut. maybe if you work at your job long enough, they'll continue raising your salary, and you'll end up with at least $40k a year. but nobody retires at age 40 with just words.</p>

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<p>I don't think that's going to happen. I have over a year working at my current place of employment and so far I haven't received any raises. Not that I care, since the raises at that place are usually of less than $1000/year.</p>

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<p>Moire,</p>

<p>from all of your comments, I don't know why they sound like you already set yourself a very low personal standard.
You are a 3.5GPA math in a top-40 school. I can say you are certainly smart enough, not just for bragging over to those who suck at math but you personally have a sufficient capacity of thinking and solving problems. Why aren't you able to settle down? Can I blame Math for its narrow opening to the job market? Suppose you could do it all over again, would you choose another major?</p>

<p>From my perspective, I kinda understand why don't you want to be an actuary, consultant or financier. Those jobs take a combination of strong analytical skills, business knowledge and understanding of human behavior, which will turn out to be a joke if people like me and you try to do that. If I had those qualities, I wouldn't end up studying math.</p>

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Imagine how I feel now that I've been a few years out of college.

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I am guessing, I am supposing you haven't reached your thirties yet since you get out of school couple years. I understand how it feels when you did all the hard work and make the money like a part-time college student does. It's horrible and it is obsessing me now!
But I gotta say something positive to you.
If I were you, these are 2 things I would do
1. Be patient. We do not know what will happen. the fact that most people don't make good money when they just get out of school will console you a little bit.
2. As a consequence of 1, If I have to spent my time being patient and panick, doing the thing I dont like. I would rather go back to school and get some higher education. Since you said you dont care the budget and stuff like that.</p>

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<p>
[quote]
ajoke, CollectivSynergy acknowledges that actuary is one of the best jobs out there, yet s/he makes it sound like anyone with a degree in math is cut to be an actuary. In addition to making sure that you pass the tests, which are not a joke (no pun intended), make sure you also have the "soft skills" required to do well at such jobs. You will be making presentations in front of your colleagues and you will be required to talk to clients, a lot. If you don't feel comfortable doing that, don't be an actuary.

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<p>Did you never learn the concept of self-improvement, and expanding your portfolio of skills? Just because you're not good at presenting now doesn't mean you can't get better at it. Sure, not everyone can be that elite speaker enrapturing audiences, but you only need to be passable for 99% of jobs. By the way, before you argue differently, many of the best public speakers I know were not born that way. Some event hated it at first. Moral of the story: broaden your skillset.</p>

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Think about it: who is going to pay some dude/gal with only a degree in math to do consulting? Ask yourself, with only a bachelor's degree in math, what can I possibly know that people at the company I'd be working at wouldn't know? And forget the talk about statistical analysis; you already stated that you don't like that field.

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<p>Of course you can't start your own consulting outfit straight out of college, that's why you get a job at an established firm first, soak as much in as you can and build contacts, then branch off on your own. Or just stay. For that matter, what major would allow someone to go into consulting straight out of undergrad? They're not looking for people to know everything about insurance, for example. They look for quick learners who are adaptable.</p>

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If it requires "a certain personality," it's probably not for people like you and I. Are you obsessed with money? Would you like to work in a cutthroat environment? Would you like to work side by side with people with that mentality? If you answered no to any of those questions, finance is not for you. And forget about working for top Wall Street firms. The top 1% of candidates for finance jobs work at Wall Street firms. But what about the bottom 99%?

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<p>Many of the people I know in finance are not just in it for the money. Unless cash is your only goal in life, you'll burn out very fast on wall street. You think those 60 year old IBankers are in it for the money? They have tens of millions socked away, and can't leave because they're in love with the thrill of work that's hard to replace. Why should she forget about getting a job on Wall Street (by the way when people use that term it's often loosely referring to all finance firms, not just the bulge bracket)? Just because you're not anywhere near the top quartile doesn't mean others aren't.</p>

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They don't sleep on the streets. They settle for low-paying unrewarding jobs unrelated to their fields of study.

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<p>Oh? I guess Martha Stewart, John Mack, Lloyd Blankfein, Jon Stewart and all those other pesky millionaires should hand their money back then.</p>

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<p>First of all, thank you for the compliment. But the truth is that a 3.5GPA from a top40 doesn't mean a lot to anyone in the real world. Proof of that is that out of college I spent a year unemployed and the job offers never rained down on me. Personally, I think the only reason I did well in school is because I studied an easy subject and because the school I went to is more of a party school than a serious school; remember, we are talking about a top 40 school, not an ivy league. I believe that a significant percentage of the people who get poor grades in school do so because they are smart enough to know that good grades don't mean a thing in the real world. Could it be that I did well in math because I cared about a subject that few people cared about? Would I have been an outstanding math student had we all been obsessed with that subject? Or would I have been another one? Honestly, I don't believe I am "smart enough." That's because: People always treat me like an idiot, and there is usually a moment of silence when they learn I went to college. I know, maybe they are the idiots, but when you get the same feedback from most people you encounter, perhaps it's time to put aside your ego and think about what the message they are conveying you. Some people who have seen my resume have discouraged me from applying for certain math jobs because according to them only very intelligent people get those jobs. I failed tons of job interviews, both because of my presentation skills and because I failed to correctly answer technical questions. Given my poor performance at my current job, more than one coworker has asked me if I just don't care about my job. They probably want me to make a confession that will amount to suffient grounds for immediate termination, since I am always asking them for help with the same old problems. The good side of this is that at least my coworkers were kind enough to give me the benefit of the doubt. I don't care, I still feel like a phony.</p>

<p>If I were to do it all over again, I would have chosen a whole different life path.</p>

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[quote]
From my perspective, I kinda understand why don't you want to be an actuary, consultant or financier. Those jobs take a combination of strong analytical skills, business knowledge and understanding of human behavior, which will turn out to be a joke if people like me and you try to do that. If I had those qualities, I wouldn't end up studying math.

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<p>And that's something that people like CollectivSynergy don't seem to understand.</p>

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<p>There are psychoemotional forces at work. Learning interpersonal skills is not as easy as learning to play a musical instrument or learning a new language or learning a new type of math. It's a whole different ball game.</p>

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Of course you can't start your own consulting outfit straight out of college, that's why you get a job at an established firm first, soak as much in as you can and build contacts, then branch off on your own. Or just stay. For that matter, what major would allow someone to go into consulting straight out of undergrad? They're not looking for people to know everything about insurance, for example. They look for quick learners who are adaptable.

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<p>And, of course, since we did well at math it means we are adaptable and quick learners.</p>

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Many of the people I know in finance are not just in it for the money. Unless cash is your only goal in life, you'll burn out very fast on wall street. You think those 60 year old IBankers are in it for the money? They have tens of millions socked away, and can't leave because they're in love with the thrill of work that's hard to replace.

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<p>It's just a little game they play: the more money they make the higher their score.</p>

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<p>Morie,</p>

<p>You really need to stop just sitting around feeling sorry for yourself, kick yourself in the butt, and work to get the skills you need to get where you want to go.</p>

<p>You only really have two options... get your act together and get on with it or accept the position you're in and stop complaining about it. But you really can't just keep sitting there feeling sorry for yourself and then ALSO complain about the (in your mind) crappy position you're in. It doesn't work like that... and that's why so many are taking a cynical view of your situation. </p>

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It's just a little game they play: the more money they make the higher their score.

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Based on this comment and others you really seem to have this vendetta against those who are successful. You started off by saying that your friends who made a lot more than you and had good jobs were "slackers" and now you're saying that those who make a lot of money are just playing some sort of selfish game. Instead of accepting that they've done better than you (and have many of the things that you want... decent pay, nice job), you hopelessly try to mask your jealously by making derogatory comments about them. Stop it. </p>

<p>You seem unwilling to accept the reality that the reason your friends are better off and the reason why some folks make a lot of money is because they've been successful and worked hard to get where they are (even though you may not see it that way). They've developed skills, learned new material, worked hard and as such are in the good position of being able to demand higher pay and better jobs because they have skills that others don't. You get paid $16/h because it's not hard for the company you work for to find others with similar skillsets to fill your shoes... thus they don't need to pay much to keep you on board. Until you get your act together, that won't change so there's not much point continuing to complain about it either.</p>

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<p>Again, don't be stupid. I never said that. My comment was in response to this comment:</p>

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You think those 60 year old IBankers are in it for the money? They have tens of millions socked away, and can't leave because they're in love with the thrill of work that's hard to replace.

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<p>If a person is a 60 year old IBanker, I don't think they are in it for the money that late in the game. I believe it's a lot more likely that it's just a little game they play to see how much money they can make. In this regard, I stand by what I said, not by what you accuse me of. And by the way, where did I use the word "selfish"? Or implied that they were selfish? I believe that any person who earns millions of dollars is probably a lot more intelligent than I. I mean, I can't even figure out a way to earn more than $16/hour. Why don't you stop putting words in my mouth and start focusing on the facts?</p>

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Instead of accepting that they've done better than you (and have many of the things that you want... decent pay, nice job), you hopelessly try to mask your jealously by making derogatory comments about them. Stop it.

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<p>No, as a matter of fact, I had some slacker friends who did better than I. Because they were more intelligent? Because they were more hardworking? I am not sure. I helped them with their homework and they never did that well in school. They even seemed to think that I was some type of genius next to them - they constantly praised my intellect. Guess what? Now I earn less money than they earn, and they also don't understand why. It's probably got to do with the personality types they happened to be born with, certainly not because they did a better job than I.</p>

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You seem unwilling to accept the reality that the reason your friends are better off and the reason why some folks make a lot of money is because they've been successful and worked hard to get where they are (even though you may not see it that way).

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<p>I did not deserve to end up worse off than my slacker friends. That's why I worked hard in school while they were out partying and getting drunk. By "slacker friends," of course, I'm referring to my friends who happened to be slackers, not all my friends. One more time, because logic is not your forte: by "slacker friends," I'm referring to my friends who happened to be slackers, not all of them. And since we are going to be anal about this, how do you know all my friends were not slackers? Not all of them were slackers, for the record, but you wouldn't have known that, would you?</p>

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They've developed skills, learned new material, worked hard and as such are in the good position of being able to demand higher pay and better jobs because they have skills that others don't.

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<p>How do you know? Do you know them?</p>

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You get paid $16/h because it's not hard for the company you work for to find others with similar skillsets to fill your shoes... thus they don't need to pay much to keep you on board.

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<p>I wasted my time studying an useless subject: math. I wasted my time earning a 3.5 GPA. I wasted my time and money attending a top 40 school. Some of my slacker friends studied useless subjects, too, like sociology, and had GPAs lower than 3.0 and went to lousy state schools, but they were lucky enough to end up with jobs (unrelated to their fields of study) a lot more lucrative than mine.</p>

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<p>I'm just a high school senior so my advice probably isn't as great as the other on here. That said, the pieces of advice that really seemed good on this thread was going back to college for a computer science major/minor, and practicing your speaking skills/interviewing skills (I'd say its not hopeless, I was a horrible speaker until I joined the Speech team at my school, not I'm at least decent at prepared speeches and considerably improved at impromptu ones, though I still flop from time to time). Passing the actuary exam sounds like a decent idea too; you may not love the job but, if pay is what you're looking for, go ahead and become an actuary. My family actually immigrated here and ended up taking mostly jobs that they didn't like/weren't fit for, but they're now fairly good at all aspects of their work and have found things like family and friends to compensate for less than satisfactory jobs.</p>

<p>The thing that sticks out most to me is that you're obsessing over work when you should probably be dedicating more time to enjoying life with those around you. Good luck with everything.</p>

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<p>
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The thing that sticks out most to me is that you're obsessing over work when you should probably be dedicating more time to enjoying life with those around you. Good luck with everything.

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<p>I don't have anyone around me, and I am not sure what you mean by "enjoying life." Do you mean like going to the movies and out to dinner? Going to the beach every now and then?</p>

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<p>looks like you need to work on your communication skills. consider doing toastmasters. it helps you on listening and speaking skills... you'll make presentations and such with a small group of people who may also need help with their communication skills... and you might even make some friends. i think it's about $35 for either half a year or a full year.. the price isn't that bad. i've been to one meeting, and they're really supportive people in helping you speak. i would join, but i've been loaded with many other things. if you have time, really consider joining. at least go to one meeting and see how you like it. [url=<a href="http://www.toastmasters.org/%5DToastmasters"&gt;http://www.toastmasters.org/]Toastmasters&lt;/a> International - Home<a href="you%20should%20be%20able%20to%20find%20a%20location%20near%20you">/url</a> and some groups meet every week... in the real world, it's not so much what you know, but who you know.</p>

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<p>Going out once in a while is a part of it, but surely you have friends and a few family you enjoy seeing and talking to. I understand family might be far away, but you can make new friends anywhere.</p>

<p>You sound a bit lonely, I know you ruled this out before but perhaps you really would enjoy directly working/helping people in a classroom setting. I think part of the reason I want to go into teaching math (and thus will be a math major next year) is because I enjoy helping people directly (not via a position in some sort of company I suppose) and don't want to fall into some sort of hermit lifestyle. Also like you, I don't want the cut-throat competition and constant anxiety that comes with any job in business. I'm not what you mean by saying you are too "laid back" for the job; in fact being laid back probably means you won't be doing screaming tirades at your class anytime soon.</p>

<p>By the way, I think you really do look down on yourself a bit too much; if you weren't qualified for the job you have now, you would have either never been hired or fired long ago. As a person who is currently terrible at her job right now (but hopefully improving a bit each day), I can tell you that if people really thought you were incompetent, they'd simply look at you with a) disgust b) like you were an idiot) or c) simply offer to do parts of your job for you if they're nice (I have a lot of nice coworkers who help me out with things I struggle with so I am very fortunate). They most certainly would not accuse you of being lazy/not trying, because there is a huge difference between incompetence and laziness.</p>

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<p>
[quote]
The good side of this is that at least my coworkers were kind enough to give me the benefit of the doubt. I don't care, I still feel like a phony.</p>

<p>If I were to do it all over again, I would have chosen a whole different life path.

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<p>Life isn't a video game. You can't load a previous file and try again. The best you can do is to change your future path to the one you want, Mr. Caulfield.</p>

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<p>And that's something that people like CollectivSynergy don't seem to understand.

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<p>Oh you got me! Those actuaries must all be art history majors, what was I thinking? Not a math major between them! And bankers? Some firms require a PhD in math, but I suppose you didn't know that either. Consulting is crammed with a huge variety of majors as well, especially since there's many different types of advising.</p>

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There are psychoemotional forces at work. Learning interpersonal skills is not as easy as learning to play a musical instrument or learning a new language or learning a new type of math. It's a whole different ball game.

[/quote]
</p>

<p>Yes it is a whole different ball game, but not impossible by any means. I work at it every day, why can't you?</p>

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And, of course, since we did well at math it means we are adaptable and quick learners.

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<p>Tell me what major does have adaptable and quick learners then? I wasn't talking about any field of study in particular, but that those are the qualities they look for. If you have them, it doesn't matter what major you were. And as a matter of fact, I know some recruiters like math majors because of the underlying assumption that their logical faculties are strong.</p>

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It's just a little game they play: the more money they make the higher their score.

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<p>Feel free to be cynical here. There actually are bankers in it not for the money, but for the adrenaline rush they crave.</p>

<p>Moire, you were pitiable at first, amusing second, and now... neither of the two. You're a sad kid living in a self-imposed cage which nobody can break except the one person who isn't trying - yourself. You've been given all the suggestions in the world, and shoot them down instead of grasping them. And I wouldn't really care, except you're trying to drag others into your morose world where you wallow in your own self-pity. You have a vendetta against the fact that you weren't successful? Look in the mirror and you'll see who the culprit is.</p>

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<p>I am doing people who want to study math a favor. I want them to know how I ended up so they don't end up making the same mistakes that I made.</p>

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<p>most people in math go on to graduate school anyways. Its common knowledge that math is useless as a terminal degree.</p>