<p>For a LAC in the top ten, Bowdoin has a great program in env. studies, very respected. It is a coordinate major - you also must major in a policy type field (economics, poli sci) or a specific science. And whichever you major in, you still have to take courses in the other area, and complete the full major requirements in your field. Higher ranked than Midd but possibly easier to transfer to than Williams. Outside Magazine ranked Brunswick as one of the best college towns in the US (#16 of 40). It's got something the others don't - the Gulf of Maine. The school itself is just a few miles from the most gorgeous waterfront....and they own various pieces of waterfront property including a coastal studies center, a to-die-for bay where the sailing team pratices, and an entire island farther forth for bio/env. studies of various types. They also have a lot of env. undergrad fellowship winners including the Goldwater and the NOAA (at $25,000!).</p>
<p>Yeah -I would love to go to Bowdoin, actually. It's not much easier to transfer to -it actually receives more applicants for no more spaces than Williams, but maybe they're lower-quality applicants and maybe I'll get lucky:)</p>
<p>^^^
What about Colby, then? Not quite as many resources, but similar in many respects. Also, Colby's campus is BEAUTIFUL. :)</p>
<p>Since this seems to be a popular topic, if you were going to rank top LACs and universities based on the strength of their Environmental Studies programs, how would you rank them?</p>
<p>echoing what ophiolite, perhaps a fellow rock-head, mentioned several posts back, I'd be careful about env studies over env science. You can get into the policy career side w/ a science degree, but its tough to get into the science career side with a env studies degree. I'm in the env consulting business, and we see lots of env studies majors, and pass them by for other science or engineering oriented hires.</p>
<p>On JHU, beside the earth sciences based program already mentioned, JHU has a top 5 env engineering graduate program, that is heavy on the science (including ecology) & policy analysis (perhaps a bit more quantitative than a liberal arts approach). Probably the best overall & well-rounded env engineering programs I've worked with over the years, they started an undergraduate program a few years ago....I know this may be not your direction, but you may want a look just for grins:
<a href="http://engineering.jhu.edu/%7Edogee/%5B/url%5D">http://engineering.jhu.edu/~dogee/</a></p>
<p>Hello! I am a parent new to CC. I am already finding it a great source of info! My D is a junior in high school, and she thinks she's interested in environmental science. She will be applying to SUNY in-state as a target/safety/financial safety. What do you think of this program? It confers a B.A., and on the Web site is called both Environmental Studies and Environmental Science. But would a B.A. be less useful in consulting work than a B.S.? My daughter is more interested in biology than policy. If any of you experts have time to look at the course listings, I would so much appreciate it. The program seems very science-heavy to me (a nonscientist).</p>
<p>To tell you the honest truth, that is a true BA degree and would likely not be too good for someone wanting to get into environmental consulting. That specific degree looks to be way too policy oriented and if she has a greater interest in biology than policy I'd keep looking. </p>
<p>I'll look through the SUNY websites to look at the programs...I know for geology Buffalo and Albany seem to be best...but I'll do a little investigative work for you :)</p>
<p>Buffalo doesn't seem like it has the envrionmental program...but as for the difference between courses for a BA and BS look at the program you posted before compared to what Albany requires for the BS. These are the types of classes you should be looking for in a good environmental science program to be better employable coming out...</p>
<p>macnyc-- First, Stoney Brook has a great reputation, so this is a good choice, from someone who hires environmental consultants. Second, the program itself looks wonderful....I am reading about the BA in Environmental Science...I didn't see anything on Env Studies....as mentioned above, for my field, we hire graduates with Science degrees (the BA vs BS is not material), very few Studies degrees. The optimal curriculum choices from my perspective would be either the ecology or marine concentrations, although since my company's biology oriented work is in part fisheries related, getting in that one course on Priciples of Fisheries Biology (MAR 385) also would be a icing on the cake if she took the ecology track. This is fine tuning, though, and as long as individuals have a solid biology science base, a good attitude, and some responsible work experiences (that don't have to be professional in nature IMO), then she will be competitive. One other point.....take as much technical writing as possible.....writing and speaking are skills many scientists don't natural excel in, and anyone who has a leg up here has a MUCH higher chance of getting hired & doing well in a consulting career, or any other that I can think of for that matter. Finally, be aware that the field of biology has many, many individuals with graduate degrees, vs say engineering or geology. Although we have plenty of biologists that have done very well with just a bach degree, many have masters or PhD's.</p>
<p>Papa Chicken:</p>
<p>Though you made some excellent points regarding the biology end and for prospective courses to take (i.e. technical writing and communications for environmental professionals) you didn't do quite enough detective work in your little browse (and frankly I hadn't during my first cursory). </p>
<p>The website is very ambiguous whether your degree will say environmental studies or environmental science. The heading of the page say Environmental Science, however, the checklist says Studies and the page that refers to the courses for the major says Studies as well. I would email someone in the department (undergraduate advisor) to confirm it is a science degree as opposed to studies. It is definately something you'd want to confirm before going in...</p>
<p>Thank you so much, Ophiolite and Papa Chicken, for your real-world insights! I will definitely help my D follow up with the colleges' environmental science departments for the lowdown. (We haven't even visited yet; thank goodness she's a junior!)</p>
<p>I am so happy for your feedback because, as I mentioned, I am a nonscientist and both the Albany and Stony Brook programs sound great to me! I'm also wondering about another SUNY program, at the College of Environmental Science and Forestry. I don't know much about the school itself. Apparently it's on the Syracuse U. campus. Do you have any thoughts about this program? Apparently, the first two years of undergrad are spent getting required core courses out of the way, and the last two years are detailed in this link. I chose this concentration because it's more biology-based, as far as I can see:</p>
<p><a href="http://www.esf.edu/es/bsa.htm%5B/url%5D">http://www.esf.edu/es/bsa.htm</a></p>
<p>macnyc:</p>
<p>That program you just posted looks very interesting...</p>
<p>To tell you the truth...it's the first time I've seen an environmental studies program listed as a BS...which is a good thing...it gives a great broad science background (justifying the BS) and the option to take relevant policy courses to cater to your interests. </p>
<p>You are getting the hang of what your daughter should be looking for in a college to cater to her interests!</p>
<p>Feel free to ask us if you have any other questions as they arise...</p>
<p>I'd like to jump into this thread with a few questions, if I may. My D is a HS junior and interested in studying environmental science but with more of a chemistry than a biology focus. Primary interests appear to be studying water pollution, air pollution, etc. She has identified a few environmental chemistry programs and is also considering schools where she can major in chemistry and minor in environmental science or vice versa. At the moment, she is only interested in going to a small to medium sized school - which is making it more difficult to identify appropriate programs. We are trying to develop a list of schools for spring and summer visits and, while I know her interests might change, I do think she will remain interested in something that deals with environmental science. We have visited Middlebury, Williams, and Dartmouth all of which she loved. Any other thoughts on strong programs at LACs would be greatly appreciated (especially ones that are easier to get into than the ones we have visited) as would any thoughts on career opportunities in environmental chemistry/toxicology. She does realize she will need to go to grad school. </p>
<p>By the way Papa Chicken, I have thoroughly enjoyed reading your Top 20 Matriculation lists from High School Web Sites thread. Thanks for taking the time to put all that information together.</p>
<p>ophiolite & macnyc-- yes, I hadn't read too deeply.......concur that Env "Sciences" is a must. I'll look over the esf program in a bit. First reaction is as Ophiolite mentioned: BS connotes good science rigor, not that a BA doesn't give a student enough, but BS without a doubt. Off the top of my head, the ESF program is probably more terrestrial in nature, quite a bit different than what one could get at Stoney Brook with marine science, so there's a big subject-area decsion.</p>
<p>mum07:</p>
<p>I'd need to do a little bit more research on that topic, not too familiar with specific schools for you (and I have poor LAC knowledge), but I would suggest looking at schools with environmental geochemistry programs as well. This allows her, if she decides to specialize in groundwater/water pollution or something like environmental change (paleoclimates) to be able to have access to a specialized program as an undergraduate.</p>
<p>Off the top of my head only one comes to mind that I am half-way familiar with, Franklin and Marshall...</p>
<p>Edit: Few other places to look...Whitman College (Washington State), Lehigh University, and Allegheny College (PA)</p>
<p>Connecticut College has a neat E.S. certificate program in addition to the E.S. major: "The Goodwin-Niering Center for Conservation Biology and Environmental Studies is a comprehensive, interdisciplinary program that builds on one of the nation's leading undergraduate environmental studies programs. The Center fosters research, education, and curriculum development aimed at understanding contemporary ecological challenges."</p>
<p>mum07-- like Ophiolite, I am not too aware of LAC's that have strong env chemistry programs....I went to a LAC, Denison, in geology, however....wonderful program, but being a grey hair, environmental chemistry was not yet in the mainstream & I learned the env chemisty side of the business from on-the-job-training & working with env-chemistry professors (mostly from env engineering departments) on site-specific research projects. So my familiarity with strong env-chemistry programs is largely limited to env engineering programs that have a particular interest in subsurface fate & transport and water treatment. [IMHO much of the quantitative know-how for env chemistry <em>as applied to man-made env issues</em> is associated with engineering departments that have strong applied-science perspectives.] Although not LACs, the smaller to medium size programs that come to mind are MIT's civil & env engineering (~4k undergrads), Carnegie Mellon's civil & env eng program (~5k undergrads), Johns Hopkin's Dept of Geography & Env Eng (~5k undergrads, heavy chemistry/science/fate&transport bent, recently started a new undergraduate degree program), Colorado School of Mine's Env Science & Engineering dept (~2k undergrads), & Rice dept of civil & env eng (~3k undergrad). Another interesting env program is Clemson's env toxicology program....can't remember if this is graduate only, but its one of the best IMO to take sound chemistry & biology to man-made problems.</p>
<p>Hope that helps....I'll peruse some of the LAC's, but by reputation, one doesn't hear much from them in my world because they are not in the applied research world. They do produce good undergrads however, that have a better-than-average chance of being well-grounded in the sciences (assuming they are in a Science, not Studies program) and make well-rounded people who can communicate, and consulting is both a techical- and communications-centric business. [So I'm biased to hiring LAC products, so long as they have a strong science education.]</p>
<p>I can certainly elaborate more if your D had any more specific interests in mind....like, would you like more on env toxicology programs, and if so, specific to ecological or human receptors? The "air" side presents a different set of eduacational choices, which I am less familiar, but be aware that folks tend to specialize in one medium or another, and often a dept may be strong in one medium and not in others. Also, much of what I know is graduate level, so you'll have to do some research to pin down how deeply the undergrad programs get into the specific areas of interest, but from 1st hand, I know that would happen at the engineering dept's I listed above.</p>
<p>And thanks mum07 for your kinds words on the Top 20 matriculation thread....I've learned quite a bit since I've taken that one on. I am glad others have likewise enjoyed it....PC</p>
<p>I might add that the another major entry into the subsurface fate & transport world is from the geochemistry side....I suspect this is Ophiolite's heritage.......many chemistry-savvy folks in the env consulting world started there, then graded into the applied problems of pollution control, rather than starting in the applied world of engineering, then grading into the scientific aspects of those disciplines.</p>
<p>ophiolite and Papa Chicken,
Thank you so much for you insights. I'll have my D also look at the geology/geochemistry departments as she's investigating schools. She really doesn't know a great deal about environmental science at this point but feels her interests lie mostly in chemistry and water pollution (can't get her any more specific at this point). She's in the process of writing a paper for English on the pros and cons of the Everglades Restoration Project. I have suggested enviromental engineering but she really wants a broader undergraduate education and isn't sure she sees herself as an engineer. I'm sure she'll have lots of questions over the next year as she looks at schools. Thanks very much for your willingess to share your expertise in the area! Happy Thanksgiving to both of you.</p>
<p>..Mum07</p>
<p>Papa Chicken:</p>
<p>Off-topic and just an FYI...my area of expertise is actually, believe it or not metamorphic petrology and tectonics. I'm looking to break off into using geochemical methods (stable and radiogenic isotopes) to constrain the exhumation of metamorphic terranes for my PhD. </p>
<p>I have just done a lot of research in where careers are in geology so I can help inform people to fully understand environmental problems, an excellent base in general geology is essential. Plus, my undergrad department had the environmental/real-life application spin :)</p>