<p>My daughter is not really sure what she wants to major in. leaning towards engineering because she really loves math, but also thinks about teaching as well as others.
we visited Wake Forest and really fell in love with it-mostly because it seemed friendly, and becuase they say that they see freshman year & even sophomore year as a time for students to grow, find themselves, and experience subjects/majors that they maybe never even heard about and that they set up classes, advisors with this in mind. what we saw that day made us believe that this truly is their philosophy,, not just using the buzz words of today.</p>
<p>anyway, as a mom, the biggest issue is the price tag that comes with it. so we are looking for a school with that same philosophy, still in a realatively nice climate, but which costs much less. anyone have any ideas? and if you don't have suggestions for that, what about some general advice for looking for colleges...how to tell the sales pitch from reality, etc.</p>
<p>we live in Wisconsin. our top school (UW-Madison), is under $5000 +housing and the others start at around $4000. Wake Forest is $41000 + housing. I just checked and out of state public colleges in NC are about $20000 + housing. we are also looking at Ne COllege of Florida, a public college, whose tuition is about $30000… and while we have reciprocity in Minnesota, my daughter wants to find a place that is warm and get s no (or little ) snow!</p>
<p>University of Wisconsin, Madison is the best non-super-reach-for-everyone choice academically when given a strong cost constraint for Wisconsin residents (University of Minnesota Twin Cities is also good). Some highly selective private schools are very generous with need-based aid, but getting admitted is like a lottery for even students with “maximum” academic credentials.</p>
<p>Since the student is undecided between engineering and (presumably) math, check to see whether the engineering division is impacted, which would mean higher freshman admissions selectivity, and also require students changing into it to apply to change. Then you would have to make the following choice:</p>
<ol>
<li><p>Apply to engineering as a freshman, facing greater risk of being rejected. However, if accepted, the student can more easily switch from engineering to math if she desires. Since freshman and sophomore engineering curricula generally include the math courses that math majors take, there should not be problems with having to “catch up” on the math major if she makes this change.</p></li>
<li><p>Apply to the arts and science division as a freshman and start taking courses for the math major, plus additional physics and engineering courses for her desired engineering major. Then, if she wants to go to engineering, apply to change to the engineering division, knowing that acceptance is not guaranteed (likely very dependent on GPA).</p></li>
</ol>
<p>Note that if a student is taking the freshman and sophomore courses for engineering, majoring in physics as well as math are almost automatically possibilities for alternative majors. Adding introductory economics course(s) in freshman year makes that major a possibility as well.</p>
<p>Many other humanities and social studies majors can be started late (as in third or fourth semester) without delaying graduation. However, a student who may be interested in engineering, physics, or (to a lesser extent) math needs to start early, since the prerequisite chains are long, so starting late can delay graduation.</p>
<p>thanks! I will share this information with my daughter. this will be helpful info I know that UW Madison is great academically (my husband’s nephews both go there as out of state residents!), but I don’t think that is a choice. My daughter wants a small school…with the size of Wake Forest probably at the high end. SHe also wants to get out of the state and to someplace warm. and, at least from the school that she goes to, it is a super reach: many really good academic students do not make it into Madison due to class rank (last year, the senior class had something like 15 national merit finalists…tough to be in the top 10 in a class like that!)</p>
<p>she has a 28 on her ACT because I didn’t let her take any tutoring (I didn’t realize that most of her friends went up on average of 6 points and that it would be so important!). her grade point, unrated overall is about a 3.7 or 3.8. weighted it is about a 4.1 (I think). SHe took many honors courses and this year has 4 ap classes. she also is on the dance team (co-captain this year) & does lots of community service (although no real leadershop roles). she also received the quill & Scroll award for journalism.<br>
that is what I am trying to find - another college that is similar to Wake Forest, but costs less money, or has a potential for scholarships/financial aid packages.
I’m sure you have guessed, this is my oldest child! and this entire process is a little overwhelming! thanks so much for all of your advice.</p>
<p>What is your budget? Will you qualify for need-based aid? Have you used an online calculator to estimate your “Expected Family Contribution”? Unless you qualify for financial aid (either need-based or merit aid), you are unlikely to find any OOS public university (other than the military service academies), or any private school, that gives you the same quality for the money as UW-Madison. </p>
<p>Truman State in Missouri is around $20-25K OOS (still more than UW). It enrolls fewer than 6K students. An even smaller public school is St. Mary’s College of Maryland, but the OOS cost is over $36K.</p>
<p>With few exceptions (such as some religious schools) private schools cost more than $35K at full sticker. If you’re competitive for Wake Forest, you might qualify for merit aid at some less selective private schools. Check out Case Western. Total cost is over $50K, but average merit aid is nearly $20K.</p>
<p>thank you! I quickly went through a calulator early on to get a rough idea , and we didn’t really qualify for much need-based aid, although I have not gone back and used actual data. we pretty much have been trying to use UW in-state tuition (which is under $10000) as our baseline. we can go a little higher, but don’t want her to spend the rest of her life paying off loans. on the other hand, we want her to both enjoy her college years and have them worthwhile academically. my daughter really wants and needs a smaller school. Madison is an awesome school, but it is just too big for her. and, as you pointed out, as I have been looking at both oos and private schools, they all seem to range about 30,000-50,000 per year. I guess if I am going to end up spending that much money, I will opt for a private school if she can get in. thanks again for the links!
thanks for the suggestions fo schools to check out, and for the links. I will check into those.</p>
<p>How about Sewannee University of the South? Didn’t I read that they had decreased their tuition recently? </p>
<p>You might also look at less well known private schools where your daughter might qualify for merit aid- consider the college that change lives list.</p>
<p>Have your daughter test again after some ACT tutoring…also have her take the SAT…some do better on that.</p>
<p>What about some of the regional UW’s…aren’t they smaller?</p>
<p>If your budget is $10k and you may go a little higher, and you don’t qualify for much/any need based aid, then many schools will not work. You might look at some of the smaller OOS publics that don’t charge much more for OOS students and who might give your D a merit scholarship if she raised her scores. Or find a school where a 28 is well within the top 25%.</p>
<p>Something’s gotta give here. Small college in a nice climate with engineering and <$20K without any need based aid? Probably not happening, unless you’re willing to consider a military service academy.</p>
<p>There are small schools, such as some of the Colleges That Change Lives, that might get you down below $30K after merit aid. I don’t think any of them have strong engineering programs.</p>
<p>thanks for the advice. that was our plan, but she could not make the Sept test and cannot make the October test, either, due to her committments with dance team. I will check into SAT, but for some reason she is very hesitant to take it. yes, some of the regional UW schools are smaller, but they are still in WI. we are going to have her apply to one or two of them, ‘just in case’, but I know she won’t be happy at them.<br>
I wrote on this list because I realized that our budget is very unrealistic unless she goes to a UW system school. My intent of my initial post was two-fold: first to see if anyone knew of any schools that were like Wake Forest in their philosophy and size (there are just so many schools that look good on paper, and alaso so many schools that I can’t research all of them), and secondly, simply how to really know what is out there, how to sift through the rhetoric & find what the school is really like without running around the country doing tours, and maybe hear about a few schools that people know of that fit this criteria (in a warm place, not real expensive, and not a ‘reach’ school for someone with an act of 28 and unweighted gpa of about 3.75).
so many of you have given me so much help…I really appreciate it!</p>
<p>yes, I think it is our budget! I now see how unrealistic we were! But I will keep looking. I am looking through the “colleges that change lives” list now & also found <a href=“has%20anyone%20heard%20of%20this%20website%20before?”>url=http://www.collegedata.com</a>. </p>
<p>She will apply to Wake FOrest & New College, but they are both considered “reach” schools for her. so besides finding a less expensive school, I am also trying to find one where her chances are quite good for her to be accepted.</p>
<p>Wake Forest’s vibe cousins, from more to less selective:</p>
<p>Vanderbilt
Wake
Richmond
Furman
Elon</p>
<p>Really, any college that doesn’t require students to declare a major in their freshman year is good for undecided students. And even those that do typically make it easy to change majors.</p>
<p>thanks. this is I think what I have been looking for. We toured Wake Forest & Elon on the same visit. saw wake forest first and loved the feel and who they seemed to WANT students to take a year to find themselves before declaring a major, and everything seemed to show that they practiced what they preached. I sensed that wake forest truly wanted to help their students grow and discover themselves as part of their education. we then went to Elon and heard the same words, but as we kept listening, it seemed that they did not. example-most of their programs are 4 year programs and most of their scholarships are for specific majors. yhey also don’t seem to have a dedicated freshman program like Wake Forest does. I am not sure if this makes sense.
but I do appreciate all of this feedback. I have looked at (on-line) Furman, and that sounds very good, also. since I am looking for less selective, I will try RIchmond, but probably skip Vanderbilt.</p>