<p>“this student doesn’t have the stats for MIT, does he?” - I’d say probably not, unless URM or other hook. But even for kids with much higher scores, MIT is still a crapshoot. They do offer good need based aid… but I’d advise against trying due to the grueling app (needs special teacher recommendations).</p>
<p>This student doesn’t have the straight stats for the very top schools (MIT, Caltech, Rice, etc.). HOWEVER, he could possibly make a compelling case for having done it without much guidance/support, and get a boost for being a self-made-kid in the essay.</p>
<p>Kudos to you for doing what you can to help the kid!</p>
<p>Add Vanderbilt to your list. Engineering School with need-based aid that does not include loans.</p>
<p>OK…so happy to report that I got his SAT scores totally wrong. Composite was right, but I messed up the individual scores. </p>
<p>CR: 690 M: 710 W: 670</p>
<p>So, does the fact that his CR+M = 1400 make any difference with respect to possibilities? </p>
<p>Vanderbilt is still a big reach. It looks like RPI and Lehigh are matches, but I can’t connect to the NPC on collegeboard for some reason.</p>
<p>Another question: will the FA office figure in the cost of a couple of plane tickets/year into the COA?</p>
<p>SAT CR+M = 1400 opens up a few more big scholarships from the <a href=“http://talk.collegeconfidential.com/financial-aid-scholarships/1348012-automatic-full-tuition-full-ride-scholarships-19.html#post16145676[/url]”>http://talk.collegeconfidential.com/financial-aid-scholarships/1348012-automatic-full-tuition-full-ride-scholarships-19.html#post16145676</a> .</p>
<p>Louisiana Tech: tuition, fees, room, board; residual cost = $5,229
Howard: upgrade to tuition, fees, room, board; residual cost = $3,462</p>
<p>Also, Alabama - Tuscaloosa has tuition + $2,500 for a residual cost of $10,622.</p>
<p>Regarding plane tickets, you may want to see if the published cost of attendance has enough in the “travel” or “misc/personal” categories to cover the plane tickets.</p>
<p>University of Southern California and Santa Clara University have good engineering programs, although I don’t know how good they are at meeting financial need.</p>
<p>The UW has a great engineering program, I wouldnt rule them out.
<a href=“http://talk.collegeconfidential.com/engineering-majors/981759-us-news-undergrad-engineering-rankings-2011-a.html[/url]”>http://talk.collegeconfidential.com/engineering-majors/981759-us-news-undergrad-engineering-rankings-2011-a.html</a></p>
<p>^ EK…definitely not ruling them out. I have a senior in the program! 
But this kid really needs more than one “match” to apply to right now.</p>
<p>Actually, the safety is the most important school for the application list. Has he checked whether he likes any of the safety candidates (perhaps the automatic full ride schools)?</p>
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Many selective colleges make a strong effort to find diamonds in the rough who do well in spite of having a lower income, with little parental support and fewer opportunities, like the student discussed in this thread. Just hours ago, someone started a thread in this forum linking to an article discussing this – [Wanted</a> at the Ivys: Needy, high-achieving students - In Plain Sight](<a href=“http://inplainsight.nbcnews.com/_news/2013/10/04/20822742-wanted-at-the-ivys-needy-high-achieving-students?lite]Wanted”>http://inplainsight.nbcnews.com/_news/2013/10/04/20822742-wanted-at-the-ivys-needy-high-achieving-students?lite) . I haven’t seen enough results for this group to guess at how much it helps in admissions, but I’d expect it enough that some might call it “a hook”. It would be even more so, if he’s first generation. These same schools also are known for giving a large amount of financial aid, in many cases to the point where it would be less expensive to attend the 4-year school than the do the CC route. </p>
<p>It’s even more difficult to estimate chances since so little information has been posted about the student’s achievements. Many of the highly selective colleges discussed in this thread place strong weight on portions of the app beyond just GPA and SAT score, in some cases greater weight than GPA and SAT, according to CDS relative importance published info. For example, I was accepted to engineering at Stanford, MIT and ivies several years ago, with only a 1300 SAT split up as 800/500 and a 3.4/3.5 HS GPA (4.0 in university classes outside of HS). From a more holistic perspective, I’d consider what the student has done to show that he can be successful academically at these selective colleges, as well as what separates the student from the thousands or even tens of thousands of other highly qualified apps. His background is quite helpful in the latter, but things like ECs, awards, LORs, and essays can also be important. </p>
<p>I think the most important criteria should not be what college he can get into. It should be what college he’d fit best at, with a great experience and assistance in his career/life goals. This depends on the student and again too little information has been posted to make decisions about this. For example, does he have a preference for a college with a huge undergrad population or a smaller population? Urban vs suburbal/rural? Would he prefer to stay within driving distance of home? A balanced gender ratio in engineering? Support for specific majors within engineering (or outside of engineering)? Support for non-academic interests? I could fill up the page with dozens of other questions. The key is whatever criteria is important to him.</p>
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<p>That probably overrode your high school record from the admissions point of view – performance in actual university courses is a better predictor of future performance in university courses than any of the usual high school academic credentials.</p>
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<p>However, the basic constraints of affordability and course/major offerings of interest need to be the first screens to find schools that fit. Finding a safety that fits should be the first task in making the application list.</p>
<p>I agree that one needs to consider affordability and find a safety that is both affordable and near certain admission. I phrased the statement poorly. My point was the focus of the thread has been listing colleges that offer a solid engineering program and have a certain stat range, while there has been very little consideration to which colleges would result in the best experience for the student and would fit with the criteria he considers important. If it were me, I’d usually a completely different strategy. I’d start by thinking about what criteria is important to me, then based on that criteria, I’d develop a list of colleges that met that criteria well. Finally I’d remove colleges from the list that did not meet financial limitations (considering NPC results) and consider chance of admission when making the final list, including a safety as well as multiple colleges with a good chance of admission. Assuming cost of applications is not a problem, I would not remove a favorite school from the list, just because the perceived chance of admission is low.</p>
<p>Did he do Running Start?</p>
<p>The state of wash gives good state aid, so he needs to include those publics as possible safeties.</p>
<p>Will his family pay his EFC? If not, that will be an issue. </p>
<p>Alabama would give him free tuition, 2500 for eng’g, some Pell Grant, maybe some SEOG if he submits FAFSA early, and fed loans. </p>
<p>Insist that he submit FAFSA early to better his aid chances for SEOG and work study. </p>
<p>Can he work over the summer and put some towards school?</p>
<p>I gave him the UofA “speech” tonight. We’ll see. I’m sure he was shocked at the suggestion. </p>
<p>And, no, his family won’t pay anything. To complicate matters, his EFC will only be this low for one year, as a sibling will also be in college at the same time. I also think he underestimated his EFC for this year some. (Went off his siblings EFC from last year, but it sounds like there has been a change in circumstances.) </p>
<p>I’m starting to think his best/only chance (other than Alabama) might be one of the competitive full tuition/full ride scholarship schools. I want to look at each website to see if I can get some info about the number of the those scholarships that are available at each school. </p>
<p>And, yes, he’s willing to work summers and during school.</p>
<p>Scuba sue, one thing this child should look at seeing as his EFC is in flex and his parents are unwilling to contribute is to look at an engineering school which has a mandatory co op program. I am not familiar with schools on the west coast but they seem to be popular where we are in the Midwest. </p>
<p>My S applied but didn’t attend the University of Cincinnati. There were very upfront that they front load your scholarships the first year. You go to school the first year and I think fall of 2nd year and then co op alternating semesters. It was a very affordable option for S and he was also accepted into the Honors program. I would look into similar options on your coast. </p>
<p>S co opted and made enough to pay for his living expenses during the year. There are also one year engineering co ops where you can work for a year and save money to pay for the next year. Many working options for engineering students which usually start after the 2nd year and will limit debt.</p>
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<p>The other schools on the automatic list should be considered if he does not like Alabama (which is just above $10,000 net price with the automatic scholarship that he would get).</p>
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<p>Optional co-op programs are fairly common, particularly for engineering majors. There are not that many schools where the co-op is mandatory.</p>
<p>OK…I culled Florida A&M and Louisiana Tech off “automatic” the list for him since they have decent engineering programs. Did I miss any other schools on that list with engineering programs? </p>
<p>And, can you all give me some suggestions for schools with strong co-op programs? </p>
<p>As far a type of school–he doesn’t care about the size. He needs a school with a decent size population of progressive/liberal students. Close to a city. Mostly, he just wants to start out at a 4 year school and get out of his house and our town. He knows his options are limited, so he is happy for any possibility.</p>
<p>
Many highly selective colleges give the equivalent of a full ride to lower income students. I’ll use Stanford as an example because I am most familiar with their policies. Non-internationals students whose families make under $100k/yr without large savings generally have ~no tuition, and students whose families make under $60k/yr without much savings generally have no tuition, no room and board, no book expenses, etc. Students with an EFC close to what has been discussed often fall near or in the latter group. Students are required to earn a few thousand while in college via a part time job at the school, often related to their field of study. Financial aid policies for more colleges are listed at [FinAid</a> | Answering Your Questions | No Loans for Low Income Students](<a href=“http://www.finaid.org/questions/noloansforlowincome.phtml]FinAid”>http://www.finaid.org/questions/noloansforlowincome.phtml)</p>
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<p>It may be worth running the net price calculators on the various cases (i.e. whether or not the sibling is in college, increased parental income if applicable, etc.) to get an idea of what he is looking at.</p>
<p>In the automatic big scholarship list, the schools with engineering that I could find which would give enough to bring the net price to $10,000 or less are listed in post #4 and #25. There may be others; you may want to compare the list to the accreditation listings at [Accredited</a> Program Search](<a href=“http://main.abet.org/aps/Accreditedprogramsearch.aspx]Accredited”>http://main.abet.org/aps/Accreditedprogramsearch.aspx) .</p>
<p>UCB, thank you so much for your help. I see now that I could have saved myself some time last night if I had reread this thread. I somehow missed post #25. </p>
<p>Some of the net price calculators are easy to use because they only ask for some really basic information. For others, I have nowhere near the level of detailed info on the family finances that I’d need to get an accurate estimate. I don’t foresee me getting anymore details either. </p>
<p>Data10: In addition to stats that aren’t that competitive for Stanford, the main problem with that possibility is that this student doesn’t have any notable ECs. He’s got plenty of time in EC’s but nothing that really shows a passion or is unique in any way. </p>
<p>On a related topic, what does it mean when NPCs don’t ask for any infor about a student’s stats? I’ve run into that several times.</p>