Schools not coming close to my EFC

Paying for College
61

I just want to point out that even with generous need based aid, colleges operate under the assumption that there are four sources of financing-

Past income (i.e. your savings, put aside for college, plus other assets except for your designated retirement assets)
Current income (which is what all of you are focused on right now, i.e. “how can we afford to spend half our salaries on tuition?”)
Future income (i.e. loans)
Self-help- student earnings- Work Study if your kid qualifies, summer job and working during the semester if not.

Families who don’t want to use their savings on college- your prerogative. Kids who don’t want to work during the school year-- your prerogative. Families who believe that educational loans are the source of all evil- your prerogative.

But unless you are Bill Gates, NOBODY expects to finance their kids educations by writing a check every month out of their current salary. Having your kid commute- a fine option. Living on campus Freshman year and then commuting for the rest- a fine option. Taking out the federal max for student loans, and planning to get a job and live at home AFTER graduating to pay off the loans with an accelerated timetable- a fine option.

But the focus on “how can we spend so much of our salary on tuition” obfuscates the fact that colleges look at many, many factors in coming up with an aid package. Of course- it’s unfair to a family who has no savings to liquidate. It’s unfair to a family where the breadwinner is three years from retirement, and it’s unfair to a student who’s had medical issues who is likely NOT going to be able to study and hold down a part time job during college, etc, fill in your own circumstances.

But I know a family where the parents are “unemployed” (by choice) who were horrified that even though they have minimal income, they were deemed full pay at their kids college. Hurrah, the system works. They’ve got huge assets due to an early retirement and a big payday from deferred compensation, they’ve got a massive, paid off home, and guess what- their kid can take out a loan and go to community college if the parents choose not to liquidate some of their assets to write a check.

So yes- unfair. There is no financial aid fairy. There is just a complex system which tries to distribute limited funds in as reasonable a way as possible.

The media broo-haha over student loans (everyone loves the stories about the Barista paying off $200K in student loans $10 at a time) ignores the fact that MOST students pay off their loans. MOST students are CLEARLY better off by having borrowed (college graduates make more money over time, and borrowing to get a degree speeds up the rate at which an individual gets access to those higher paying jobs). MOST students find a way to live economically even while borrowing (no Cancun at Spring Break or the pricey dorms with air conditioning and private rooms). And the real enemy here-- the for profit colleges which prey on low income, first gen students promising that a “degree” in recreation management, tourism, court reporting, etc. despite the reality that these kids could get those jobs WITHOUT the bogus degrees and WITHOUT having exhausted their Pell AND taken out loans.

College is expensive, but current income is only one piece of the puzzle.

62

Questions I asked, how much does the school cost and how can that be reduced?

Do we qualify for Pell? No
Do we qualify for state grant? Yes

Does the school give merit and is my child above average for the school to have a chance at merit? Yes

Are there local scholarships that my child can apply to and have a chance to receive? Yes, they both got several, but they were based on grades and need and only for one year. But they helped.

They both also have student loans and work.

63

And many students looking at colleges don’t stay within their means. Someone making $100k per year does not look at $1M houses and expect financial aid to help pay the mortgage because they work really hard and may be the very best teacher or nurse or fireman that town has ever had, but they still make $100k and that’s what they can spend on a house. If that person has saved $800k, then he can look in the $1M neighborhood, but otherwise he had to look at the houses in his own price range.

Somehow everyone expects to go to whatever college he wants to, deserves to (because he worked SO HARD in high school - like others didn’t work hard?). That just isn’t how purchases work, and in the end college is a purchase. Most states have affordable options, but it might not be the flagship or including living at the school. It might be community college or a directional or going part time and working. It might be going to the college which is really your 4th choice.

Florida does have Bright Futures which really helps a lot of kids attend the state schools, but it also has a pre-paid program and many families participate and have been saving for college since their kids were little. They pay $200-400 per month and know that will cover instate tuition and sometimes a year of housing. And guess what? Their kids go to state schools and do not get to go to NYU just because they dream of living in NYC. They don’t go to Georgia Tech because it is the ‘best’ but are happy at UF or UCF because that’s what they can afford. They live within their means. And are happy.

HS guidance counselors, whether they can discuss finances or not, are not miracle workers. They can’t make a college affordable if the family doesn’t have the money. Sure, they can point out that some schools have merit money to give out, but they don’t know the financial aid fairy any more than the parents know her. The money just isn’t there at most schools! Honest GCs would say the same thing that we on CC say - pick a more affordable school, stay instate, take NYU off your list. The families don’t want to hear it. The students don’t want to hear it. They want to go to NYU.

64

Twoin- I understand the phenomenon you’re writing about, and agree 100% with you.

But it goes to another level of insanity- the kids who know they can’t get into NYU who are prepared to haul themselves halfway across the country to attend Pace, Hofstra, Adelphi. They don’t want to hear that Hofstra is NOT within walking distance of Central Park, or that Adelphi students aren’t “popping in” to the Metropolitan museum between classes. But they are prepared to have mom and dad take a second mortgage to make their NYC dreams come true.

You talk to them about the close to home options- they don’t want to hear about it. You describe Pace’s academic standards by comparing it to the local college they could attend for 75% less than Pace- they don’t want to hear about it.

At least NYU has a handful of world class academic programs (admittedly, some of them are grad level only… so getting a PhD from Courant or a JD from NYU law school? At least that’s rational.)

65

@blossom. You are so right and the parents are plan stupid. My daughter was looking at theater design and looked at Pace. Nice program but the overall academics were let’s just say were lacking. Emerson was too expensive but got accepted there. So our local private school with merits was like 1/2 the price.

66

I understand the $1M house analogy, but I will point out that those $1M houses are not sending pretty booklets, enticing postcards and ego boosting letters to prospective house buyers every friggin week telling them how great it would be if they lived in them!

67

College mailing are nothing more than junk. No student should be enticed to apply to a school based on volume of mailings. It means absolutely nothing about a students chances of acceptance or merit $.

What strikes me in so many discussions on CC is that the tail is wagging the dog. I totally get that NPCs aren’t always accurate, especially in certain circumstances, but there is no reason why a family can’t say to their kids, in advance of applying, “this is the budget, and this is the max we can contribute every year.” Students need to be involved in the research to look for affordable safeties from the get go. If the student applies to schools the family can’t afford, they need to be emotionally ready to walk away from an offer if the aid doesn’t pan out.

68

One- in my neighborhood they sure are. I get solicitations from mortgage brokers, real estate agents, and various community banks almost every day asking “have you looked at the comps for your house and do you realize you could live in a MUCH nicer home for the same monthly payment”. Every day. I pity the fool who believes the hype, but it sure is out there. I have neighbors who have taken HELOC’s for the most ridiculous home improvements-- they seem to be vying for “the most over-improved house on the block” who have deluded themselves that they will make it all back- with a premium- when the sell it to trade up to a fancier neighborhood.

Every day. In the mailbox. With lovely photographs of the lifestyle I could have if only I didn’t know how to run a mortgage calculator…and realize that I can’t afford it!

69

this this this ^^^^^

And I’m totally stealing this but will credit @twoinanddone !!!

70

@bronxbaby:
Could you afford to let him live on campus for his first year?
What about the SUNYs? Based on your income as described, he’d qualify for free tuition and your budget would suffice for room&board.
Make sure he applies to honors college/program wherever he’s within distance, as this may ‘unlock’ merit scholarships.