Schools where drinking is not a huge part of the culture

[mummom]

<p>“Where is the list, the original purpose of this thread?”</p>

<p>Oops, hitting too close to home again. Ladies and gentlemen: the list please! Let’s slap that list of Christian colleges up here again to avoid tainting our S’s and D’s schools in any way. (Btw, there is already a sub-category of “Christian colleges” on this site.)</p>

<p>Bottom line: no parent wants to 'fess up that there is out of control drinking on his/her dear S’s or D’s campus. Period. So what if dear little Johnny or Susie graduates a raging alcoholic–he graduated from Prestige U!!</p>

<p>And the schools are equally invested in going only so far in admitting there <em>might</em> be a teensy weensy problem. </p>

<p>Talk about going 'round and 'round.</p>

[Modadunn]

<p>Plain and simply… you say you know your kid Mumom. Well, I know mine. So please watch your remarks to where they become personal. Only time will tell what either child will make of themselves. But just remember, it is a long fall off that pedestal.</p>

<p>List:
North Park in Chicago</p>

[mummom]

<p>Not talkin’ about your kid there, Modadunn. As I said, the defensiveness on the part of both parents and institutions gets in the way of any reform. It depresses me.</p>

<p>Let’s get back to that list! :)</p>

[China]

<p>mummom - not trying to be offensive here, but I can’t even figure out what you’re so angry about in that last post (actually #41). What if there is NO definitive list to get back to? Why are you so twisted? I don’t think people are trying to defend their kids’ schools; just saying, it’s really hard to compartmentalize colleges in the specific way you seem to want, and any given college is going to be different for any given kid.</p>

[mummom]

<p>China: Because every thread which attempts to discuss drinking on campus seems to be visited by the same posters who repeat the same things: let’s start another thread and/or create a list for these people. There is already a list of Christian colleges on this site. What people really want to know is: what is the drinking situation like on YOUR kid’s campus? It seems to be extremely hard to come by honest evaluations on this score. I admit I declined to give details about my son’s school, but that is because he has been there less than three months. I believe there are probably dozens of parents of kids on this site who have upperclassmen and could give valuable insight about their kids’ campus drinking culture. But they don’t. Hence my post no. 41. I’m not angry; just frustrated and sad about it.</p>

[oldfort]

<p>I think parents are actually pointing out some of those supposedly stone sober schools are not on this thread. I don’t think anyone is defending their kid’s school. I don’t feel one one way or another about D1 school, except she is very happy. I couldnt quite understand mummom post, didn’t even know she was upset.</p>

[eddieodessa]

<p>Mummon - You are confused about the “original list”.</p>

<p>OP’s request was a list of “schools where drinking is not a huge part of the culture”.</p>

<p>Not a list of Christian schools. That is on another thread if you are interested.</p>

[patc]

<p>Cardinal Fang~</p>

<p>With you all the way on Middlebury. The general “culture” that dominates a school matters. Enough said. </p>

<p>For those of you with daughters I suggest all-women’s colleges. Look them up!</p>

[vicariousparent]

<p>It really would be helpful if people gave specific accounts and named names. For example, there was a recent, brief, and muted thread about drinking at Yale in response to a tragic news story. That provided a very helpful window on what goes on. More such frank posts would be helpful.</p>

[LasMa]

<p>Perhaps I’m a cynic, but I just assume that there is at least some furtive drinking on every college campus in America, even the stone-cold campuses. Yes, maybe even the Christian campuses. Kids will do nutty things once they no longer have parents looking over their shoulders every day; I know I did. I guess this is one of the challenges of this stage of life – letting go and trusting our kids. We raised them to have certain values, to respond in a certain way to various situations. We can’t shield them like we used to. Now we see whether they learned those lessons or not, whether they can handle what life throws at them. And whether, if they make some wrong choices, they can turn themselves around.</p>

<p>Easier said than done; believe me, I know. ;)</p>

[Cardinal_Fang]

<p>List of Markers for Colleges with Greater Average Binge Drinking</p>

<p>1) Coed schools</p>

<p>2) Rural schools </p>

<p>3) Secular schools </p>

<p>4) Schools that are whiter than average</p>

<p>5) Schools with richer than average student bodies </p>

<p>6) Schools with a strong emphasis on spectator sports </p>

<p>7) Schools with a big fraternity presence </p>

<p>8) Residential (as opposed to commuter) schools</p>

<p>It should be easy to publish lists of schools that have considerably less drinking than average. It’s not, because colleges do not want to publicize their drinking rates. They have the data-- they’re required by law to have it, I think-- but they won’t tell you unless you ask the right person.</p>

<p>Here are some candidates, though:</p>

<p>MIT, CalTech, WPI, RPI, Stevens, Rose-Hulman, Harvey Mudd and other technical schools</p>

<p>Earlham, BYU, St Olafs, Grove City and other schools with a religious affiliation</p>

<p>UCLA, Berkeley, UCSD, UC Irvine, UC Davis and other schools with a large percentage of Asian students</p>

<p>Chicago, Kalamazoo, Swarthmore, Haverford and other nerdy schools</p>

<p>Wellesley, Smith, Bryn Mawr, Agnes Scott and other women’s colleges</p>

<p>Spelman, Grambling, Howard and other historically black schools</p>

<p>Hunter College (CUNY) and other commuter schools</p>

<p>These are just some schools that came to my mind. This is by no means meant to be an exhaustive list. Every college has some drinkers, and I’m sure that some people reading this will be able to think of instances of drinking, or excessive drinking, or dysfunctional alcoholism, at one or more of these schools.</p>

[berryberry61]

<p>

I will also tell you that the young drunk women (or those who pretend they are drunk) are HARDLY innocents, many of whom use their state to throw themselves at young men - sober or drunk - intentionally.

</p>

<p>Darn - where were all these young women throwing themselves at guys when I was young :)</p>

<p>

It was my assumption that if you are busting your ass 5-6 days a week, you can’t spend days recovering from hangovers and still plan on doing well at schools with such high academic expectations, let alone the parents paying for it.

</p>

<p>Actually not true. It will depend on the student. You would be amazed at those who can party hard 3 or 4 nights a week and still pull good grades, even in a very challenging environment</p>

<p>

Let’s slap that list of Christian colleges up here again to avoid tainting our S’s and D’s schools in any way

</p>

<p>??? not sure what you really mean by this. Fact is, there are christian colleges that exist where drinking is not part of the culture</p>

<p>

Bottom line: no parent wants to 'fess up that there is out of control drinking on his/her dear S’s or D’s campus.

</p>

<p>This I generally agree with</p>

<p>

Perhaps I’m a cynic, but I just assume that there is at least some furtive drinking on every college campus in America, even the stone-cold campuses. Yes, maybe even the Christian campuses.

</p>

<p>True - but there are college’s where the predominant culture is not drinking. At some of the Christian colleges I am aware of, the vast majority of students do not drink but if you are looking for it, you can certainly find an underground drinking crew. Its just that at these schools, the playing field is tilted in the favor of non-drinkers for social activities whereas at other colleges, the playing field is tilted toward those who love to party as the main social activity.</p>

<p>I believe that was the OP’s main reason for this thread - to find those colleges where the playing field favors the non-drinkers</p>

[oldfort]

<p>MIT has a fairly large Greek presence. They also rush the first year. My friend’s son was just up there for a recruit weekend, and they all went drinking. There are quite a few MIT parents here who would probably have more inside information.</p>

<p>Haverford - definitely not nerdy or dry. D1’s 2 best friends from HS are there, and she has visited. It’s a very small school, there is usually only one party where everyone goes each night. You need to love your company.</p>

<p>As far as larger percentage of Asians would mean less partying, I don’t think that’s necessary the case. At D1’s school, an Asian fraternity probably hazes more than other franternities. A lot of them coming from very strict and conservative families do seem to go wild in college. For them (or us) the main reason is most of them do not agree or understand why their parents are so strict. While living at home, they were all obedient kids to not cause any waves, but once they are in school - “What happens in School , stays in School.”</p>

[geomom]

<p>DS is at MIT and has pledged a fraternity. The focus seems to be way more on activities and sports than it is on drinking. They are proud of their house GPA, heavily involved in service and student government. The culture of a fraternity can be a positive peer pressure as well as a negative one. Also, his dorm has little pressure to drink, although he has friends in west campus dorms that seem to have much more of a drinking “culture”.</p>

<p>I guess this echos what other parents have been saying: there is a general campus culture, and there are local cultures, and you choose where you belong. We parents know that culture is a strong force. If you choose friends that drink, you generally end up drinking. If you choose friends that get up at 7am on Saturday to go skiing or cycling, or participating in a service project, you end up avoiding drinking the night before. </p>

<p>Another subculture is major. DS is looking at several majors. One of the engineering majors seems to have considerably more drinking. If I keep hearing stories that confirm this, whenever I am asked for input, I will say good things about the alternative majors.</p>

<p>I like these threads. I think they underscore the points that

1. Parents are seriously concerned about unhealthy drinking
2. College is expensive and we don’t want to waste our money
3. Given roughly equal alternatives we will encourage our children
   to choose the school/dorm/major with the healthier lifestyle
4. We have the power through boards like this to become educated consumers</p>

[LasMa]

<p>

there are college’s where the predominant culture is not drinking.

</p>

<p>berryberry: Oh I definitely agree with this; my D is at one of them. Didn’t mean to imply otherwise. That was for mummom’s benefit; it’s my impression she’s looking for a college that is 100% alcohol-free, and I’m not sure that such a thing exists.</p>

[jonri]

<p>My kid’s out of college now and I may be out of date. </p>

<p>However, with the possible exceptions of women’s colleges and HBCUs I don’t think you can determine the drinking culture by the type of school. I certainly would not put MIT or UChicago on a list of colleges where drinking was less prevalent than average. I would put Boston University on it. (I’ve never had a kid at any of these. I do know recent grads of or students at all of them. ) </p>

<p>I really think the better way to go about this is to find a few non-drinkers who aren’t religious and ask them if the fact they don’t drink affects their social life. If your kid is “into” a particular EC, find out how much students involved in it drink. From what I’ve seen, it’s quite possible that at the same school the tennis team will be heavy drinkers and the crew team won’t be–or the reverse.</p>

<p>A friend’s kid went to UChicago. He was “into” one particular EC and the level of drinking among the participants was worse than that at most colleges, IMO. It adversely affected his academic performance. Now, of course, that wouldn’t matter if your kid’s not involved in the EC. I’m just making the point that if your kid is likely to get involved in a “sub culture” you need to check out that sub culture–whether it’s the sailing team, the school paper, the marching band, or a frat. </p>

<p>MOWC frequently refers to her son’s college as an “Ivy.” It is–but not all 8 Ivies have the same social scene. My own kid loathes the social scene at the college MOWC’s son attends and would not have dreamed of applying there. It is VERY different socially than some of the other Ivies. Lumping all the Ivies together makes as much sense as lumping UC-Berkeley, UVa, UMich-AA and UNC-CH together because they are all top public universities. </p>

<p>Another thing to keep in mind is that the school newspapers at some schools are very independent of the administration; at others, they aren’t. You are more likely to find out the truth when the paper is independent than when it isn’t. The Harvard Crimson and the Yale Daily News receive no funding from the universities. The paper is not censored. At some fairly highly ranked colleges, including many LACs, this is not the case. There is a faculty adviser who reviews each issue before publication. So, while I think reading the undergrad paper is one of the best ways to get a sense of the college’s “culture,” be aware that at some colleges the paper is censored and the small number of stories about campus drinking doesn’t mean it doesn’t exist. Conversely, don’t assume that drinking is worse at colleges where you find many articles about drinking in the school paper.</p>

[Cardinal_Fang]

<p>In post #51, I tried to make the list I would want to see if my son were looking at colleges now. I don’t know whether mummom wants a college that is 100% dry, but I am not so naive: the colleges I listed have drinking subcultures for the student who is looking for them. I wanted to list schools where social opportunities/events that don’t involve excessive drinking are easy to find, even on weekends.</p>

[patc]

<p>Sorry folks but I do have to dispel the idea that students attending religiously affiliated schools drink less. My D has friends who have attended/do attend Catholic lower “tier” schools, and I have a friend that taught at one, and let me tell you that binge drinking can factor heavily in the social scene. Sorry to burst anyone’s bubble on that. :-(</p>

<p>Personally, I think there is a correlation between a sense of student “entitlement” and a culture of heavy drinking. You know, Mom and Dad will foot the entire bill and/or intervene on behalf of a kid whenever needed. And by culture I mean something very different from that of typical experimenting. Continuous party hardy binge drinking is not experimentation. </p>

<p>There are no hard and fast rules to this - as I repeatedly post, prospective students and their parents need to visit, visit, visit to get a feel for the school. There’s no way around it because we all know what our individual standards are.</p>

[Treetopleaf]

<p>

One of the engineering majors seems to have considerably more drinking.

</p>

<p>You have piqued my curiosity, geomom - care to name the major?</p>

<p>I like your summary:

1. Parents are seriously concerned about unhealthy drinking
2. College is expensive and we don’t want to waste our money
3. Given roughly equal alternatives we will encourage our children to choose the school/dorm/major with the healthier lifestyle
4. We have the power through boards like this to become educated consumers

</p>

[emeraldkity4]

<p>My older daughters school was mentioned on the conservative thread as a TIC suggestion- but my opinion is that it actually was accurate.( although as having limited single sex dorms/bathrooms, for that OP it probably wouldn’t be a top choice).</p>

<p>I visited her campus at least three times a year, for the four years she attended ( and one for the year she was " off". She didn’t have a car, it was close( + no sales tax! in WA it is nearly 10%) and it helped her sister ( eight years younger) through the transition of her living away from home. </p>

<p>While D did stay in " sub free " dorms for three years- it was a small campus with a smaller student body ( < 1200) and a large gathering of inebriated students would have been hard to miss.</p>

<p>There are some students who have problems with the expectations that they are responsible adults, one young man recently for example, over dosed on heroin a year or so ago. However, as he had difficulties known to his family in that area ( and apparently not disclosed to the school) before attending college, I don’t blame the school for not scouring his room for drugs/alcohol.</p>

<p>I do think that places where students are considered " quirky" and embrace their individual styles, are places where there is not as much pressure to follow stereotyped college behavior.</p>

<p>Not to say they do not have occasions where drinking is out of hand- my daughter stopped attending one or two specific dances that occurred early in the year and had reputations- but overall there were many activities that did not require being affected by substances to have a good time.
( plus- not rural- good public transportation to access the city, no frats & no big time sports)</p>