<p>I think there a couple of different issues being mixed up here, which is part of why it’s hard to make a list.
If you are looking for a college where a non-drinker will be comfortable and will find plenty to do without drinking, there are many colleges that will fit the bill. Just as an example, this is certainly true at Yale, although there is plenty of drinking. I suspect that it largely true of most large schools, expecially those that are in urban areas and aren’t overly dominated by Greek culture. If there are lots of clubs, musical groups, theater performances, service groups, etc., then there will be enough to do so that non-drinkers will find their peers and will be happy.</p>
<p>If, on the other hand, your child is a moderate drinker, or likely to be a moderate drinker, and you are hoping for a colleges that will not draw him or her into binge drinking, then I’m not sure what to look for–almost every college except for the completely dry ones (maybe) has a signficant party and drinking culture.</p>
<p>“You have piqued my curiosity, geomom - care to name the major?”</p>
<p>No, because I don’t have enough data points yet. I don’t want to slander anyone. The west campus dorm - Baker - is easy to name, though. DS told me during rush that their mascot is the plastic cup.</p>
<p>Great post, Vicarious. My expectations are about the same. I want my daughter to be socially accepted even though she only drinks an occassional glass of wine.</p>
<p>Mini, an expert in alcohol use in colleges who used to post here a lot, recommended overnight visits on a Thursday as a way to separate lower alcohol use campuses from higher alcohol use campuses. Parties with alcohol on Thursday nights, he says, indicate a college with a lot of binge drinking.</p>
<p>CardinalFang: Thanks for digging up that old thread. I remember reading through it when it was current. It didn’t have the same immediate relevance for me then as it does now, since my D will be choosing among colleges to apply in the next few weeks, and then hopefully choosing among accepatances to matriculate. </p>
<p>Thursday overnights are a good idea, but if not possible, perhaps a surrogate would be to look at the course listings and check how many classes even meet on Fridays.</p>
<p>My daughter goes to a school that has a reputation as a party school with large greek culture, etc… However, students that she hangs around are mostly non-drinkers, or only drink when their school football team lost big(as they did recently), non-drug users, and very smart. Before she started college, I read these posts about alcohol and was horrified, I did not know what to expect, so I guess it still depends on the kid.</p>
<p>To add to the list of schools where drinking is minimal: St. Olaf</p>
<p>Modadunn, I’m sorry to pop the balloon. I once thought as you did (based on my past college experience and that of my friends, as well as on years of teaching on ivy campuses). I’ve since learned differently. My son is at a highly rigorous highly selective university, and the kids are not just drinking, but binge drinking, dangerously, think: grain alcohol; 8 of them rushed to the emergency room after a recent party; a recent death–causes yet unknown, but i think we all have some justification for believing it to be related to the big party weekend. i live in an ivy league town and the drinking culture on campus is beyond anything i ever encountered when i attended a much less prestigious university and ivy league grad school.</p>
<p>i was visiting my son’s campus for a big event last weekend and saw a young woman completely unable to put cream cheese on her bagel at brunch. she couldn’t stand straight, her hands were shaking violently. she either had a severe neuro-muscular impairment or a very bad drinking problem. i have only seen shakes like that on people in the street.</p>
<p>are we asking why? what is being done? students who don’t join the drinking culture find themselves slowly marginalized and lonely. even if they make no comment and go along for the party, bonding occurs among those who are “phoning Ralph on the big phone” and drawing a communal blank, missing their friday morning classes, etc.</p>
<p>However, I think the information is not always accurate. I don’t want to criticize any of these schools by name, but i know students currently attending many of the schools listed who would tell a different story; including some who wanted to transfer to get away from the heavy drinking, only to learn it is everywhere.</p>
<p>More options for immediately after high school. Both my children took a year off before college- they were both pretty exhausted of school-K-12.
While my oldest participated in a structured volunteer program, my youngest worked to earn money for travel ( while volunteering).</p>
<p>Older students, those who have had a chance to be responsible for themselves and not dependent on other adults to make important decisions for them, are less likely to fall back on substance abuse for entertainment.</p>
<p>LasMa - I agree. Even at 100% dry schools, you can find smaller subcultures that go off campus to drink</p>
<p>
</p>
<p>patc - yes, there are some religious schools where drinking is more prevalent than others. You specifically referred to Catholic lower tier schools - and I don’t dispute your findings there. However, the schools mentioned earlier on this thread (ie the Wheaton’s, Calvin’s, Grove City’s, BYUs,) would fall into a different category (both higher tier and different religious philosophy) and are in fact schools where drinking is not a hige part of the culture (actually the drinking you will find there is a much smaller, more hidden sub-culture). So please be careful of painting all religious schools with a broad brush or you will be bursting your own bubble :)</p>
<p>I’m sorry, I just want to clarify when I referred to popping a balloon, I was referring to the idea that students who have to spend a lot of time studying in a highly challenging academic environment will not drink heavily because they can’t afford the hit to their grades. I think that used to be true. Even as recently as 5 years back. </p>
<p>I think there has been a change in the extent of drinking on campus. There are very few campuses where drinking is not the main focus of campus social life. </p>
<p>I’ve been comparing the behavior of my son’s suite freshman year to his father’s suite freshman year. I remember the night his father’s suite partied (one night only, in all of freshman year–when they went out, they went to get pizza). The party happened because my brother was a senior visiting campus and they wanted to disprove his perception that the school was full of nerds. (They tried so hard to create a party scene, it was almost pathetic and my brother was not fooled)</p>
<p>In my son’s current suite, most of the suite is drunk every weekend to the point of throwing up or passing out. They go out to do shots as part of their extra curricular activities on week nights. Their extra curricular groups drink together regularly, and on week nights. The style of drinking is generally to binge: I understand it is not unusual for kids to toss of 10 drinks in an hour. My son has heard one of his suite mates speculate about whether drinking an entire bottle of hard liquor would really kill them. This is a suite of extremely bright, high achieving young men; three of them are in a special honors curriculum that is unbelievably rigorous academically. </p>
<p>As far as I can determine, my son’s suite is entirely typical of his school. </p>
<p>I am a little worried about posting this, as there is no real anonymity in the internet world and I don’t want to criticize my son’s school or “rat” on his suite. But I feel we may as well be honest about what college campus social life is about.</p>
<p>I believe the colleges I listed have less than average binge drinking. I might be wrong about some of them, and would be glad to be corrected if someone has numbers. I’m less inclined to trust anecdotal evidence.</p>
<p>The national average for collegiate binge drinking is 50% for men and 34% for women (2005 data). That means, 50% of male college students have had five or more drinks in a two hour period at least once in the last two weeks; 34% of female college students have had four or more drinks in a two hour period in the last two weeks. In the thread I pointed to, mini said the students who were binge drinkers according to this definition usually were not on the edge-- he claimed that the students were usually not stopping at four or five drinks, and the binge drinking rate would therefore be about the same if binge drinking were defined as six or more drinks in a two hour period. </p>
<p>So we can conclude that at many schools with lower than average binge drinking, binge drinkers will still be an obvious part of campus life. A low binge drinking school might-- probably will-- have a third of the students binge drink.</p>
<p>Cardinal Fang - thanks for linking that old post. Lots of good info. I was particularly struck by these comments from MINI - who is a drug/alcohol services planner and policy analyst :</p>
<p>
</p>
<p>Mini’s markers are quite similiar to what you have stated here… I also found these stats interesting</p>
<p>
</p>
<p>But judging from posts on this and other threads - I would add</p>
<p>Binge drinking rate among CC students: 0% :o (insert sarcasm here) :)</p>
<p>Speaking personally, I find the idea of binge drinking on and off college campuses to be extremely disturbing. I know it happens at my older son’s college (one death due alcohol last year, many hospitalized over the past couple of months, kids waking up hung over and bragging about how “wasted” they were the night before) and I have no doubt it will happen at whatever college S2 ends up at. Any time someone can die or have the kind of physical issues that stringkeymom describes above raises a huge red flag.</p>
<p>As a parent, I feel there’s little I can do to change the prevailing culture that seems to exist on many if not most universities. This is why I’ve focused on being absolutely clear with my 2 sons what my position on alcohol is. I believe that the clearer the kid is on the parent’s values, the less ambiguity there is when the kid is faced with a choice of whether or not, or how much, to drink. We’ve had many long discussions about alcohol in general and binge drinking in particular. I know I’ve been heard. I can only hope that my sons have internalized these values well enough to resist the temptation to binge.</p>
(insert sarcasm here) :)</p>