Schools with Good Cognitive Science and Computer Science Programs?

If anyone is still following this slightly stale thread…

My older daughter is a senior at Rice, majoring in CogSci and minoring in Sociology. She regrets majoring in CogSci and wishes she had majored in Sociology instead. Her advice is that CogSci as a primary major is only a good choice at a school with a true CogSci department, not a school where the major is assembled from course offerings of other departments with no faculty primarily dedicated to CogSci. She feels that the CogSci majors at Rice don’t get the same faculty attention as students in departments that have their own faculty - all of the real mentoring she has received has been from her Soci professors and her related research internships. She would have gone to UCSD for CogSci if she hadn’t gotten into Rice, and while she’s glad to have gone to Rice in most respects, she thinks UCSD would have been a better choice for CogSci specifically. IMHO, CogSci majors that aren’t based in their own department can still be okay as part of a double-major (i.e. CompSci+CogSci) where the other major is treated as one’s “home” department, but not ideal for a primary or stand-alone major.

My younger daughter is a HS senior and is also interested in CogSci, but she’s more inclined toward the computational end of the field than her sister was. She is applying to UBC, interested in the Cognitive Systems program, so @ShrimpBurrito , I’d definitely be interested in your impressions, as we haven’t made it up there for a visit as of yet. She has also applied to UCSD, UCB, UCD, UCLA and UCSC, UDub, URochester, Rensselaer, and Northeastern (where she was accepted Early Action and is interested in the CompSci+X combined majors, probably CS+Cognitive Psychology). What she would really like is a program that combines CogSci, CompSci and Design. (UCSD has a design track and a design minor within CogSci, and a fairly computation-heavy BS program, so that may be a good option. A Design+CogSci major at RPI also sounds like a good fit, but I’m not sure that RPI is a good fit for her personality-wise. She could add a design minor at Northeastern.) It’s going to be an interesting few months, finding out what her options are and making a decision.

I am following it @aquapt and thanks for your very helpful post. My daughter also wants to major in CogSci and is also interested in CogSci and Design, as well as the psychology aspects of CogSci, so these thoughts are very interesting. UCSD is her top choice so we are really hoping she gets in but it is so difficult to get into the UCs that she’s not counting on it and applied to a bunch of places including the UCs you mentioned (except not UCB). Your daughter didn’t apply to UC Irvine? They also have a cog sci department and I gather it is pretty computer focused. By UDub I assume you mean U of Washington? They don’t have CogSci though. Yes @ShrimpBurrito can tell you about UBC, she’s been very helpful to me.

By the way @aquapt did your daughter look at Northwestern’s Cog Sci Dept?

I’m also following this thread. Applied to UCD, UCI, UCLA, UCSB (BioPsych) and UCSD.

Hi, @CAtransplant -

My still daughter has Northwestern on her Common App but she’s waffling about it. Certainly no merit aid would be forthcoming, and I’m not sure it hits the sweet spot sufficiently to justify the sticker price.

She hasn’t applied to CogSci across the board. She actually applied to a couple of Enviro Design/ Landscape Architecture programs - her admission to Northeastern was to their Urban Landscape program, which still sounds very cool… but as she thinks about it and gets farther along in AP CompSci, she’s leaning more and more toward a CompSci+X degree or a computation-heavy CogSci program, preferably with a design component. (But NU is pretty good about major changes - she just needs to go into the portal and submit a request to change, and make sure it gets approved before she considers committing.) She also applied to Enviro Design at Boulder, which has a CogSci certificate program that is open to ENVD students.

Irvine just didn’t float her boat. It’s very commuter-school-ish, and its new thrust in the direction of attracting computer gamers and game-designers, while I’m sure it will be wildly popular, is not her thing. She isn’t sold on the greater LA area in general and only added UCLA to her UC app at the last second. (majors: CompSci or Linguistics+CompSci. She and I agree that the pull of UCLA is not sufficient to go in a “pre” anything that has competitive admissions to the major - have seen too many of my older daughter’s friends invest years and not end up in the major they wanted.) I’ll be surprised if she gets into the CompSci major in the engineering school (her only B’s in high school were in Calc BC, although she still pulled out a 5 on the AP test; and her test scores are good but not stratospheric - SAT 730V/750M, SATII 710 Bio(M), 760 MathII) but she might get into Linguistics+CompSci in A&S, which is probably a better fit anyway. She’s pretty ambivalent about Berkeley as well - if she manages to get in there at all, she’ll probably go only if she can also get into the Bowles Hall residential college. The atmosphere at UCSD or Davis would suit her better.

Yes, UW Seattle - she applied to the HCDE (Human Centered Design & Engineering) major. As with UCLA, the majors that interest her most at UW have competitive admissions once you’re there, with only very limited direct freshman admissions. Their HCDE department looks like a very cool combination of engineering, compsci, human factors & design. If she gets a direct freshman admit offer it would be tempting, but paying OOS tuition to take her chances on getting in later, probably not. Maybe if she gets into the honors program, but even then… it’s a lot of money for the privilege of competing for resources, you know?

UC Santa Cruz - while they do have a CogSci major, it is one of those without a true department. Since she’s on the high end of UCSC’s applicant pool stat-wise, she decided to go for an engineering major as her primary and consider adding CogSci as a double-major. She chose the Bioengineering “Assistive Technology, Cognitive & Perceptual” major as her first choice, which sounds rather “niche,” but if you look at the course offerings, the knowledge base is primarily CompSci and Psych, and would blend perfectly with CogSci. (Or she could take go in the direction of a traditional CompSci major, which was her second choice.) UCSC is strong in these areas, and unlike CompSci at Berkeley (ha!) she has a good chance of getting in.

Then there’s Davis, which has CompSci, CogSci and Design all in A&S… and she really liked the campus and the vibe when we visited. But you have to pick one major to start out in, and no one of those by itself sounds all that appealing - she would have to learn more about whether it would be easy to achieve a truly interdisciplinary experience, i.e. with a double-major-plus-a-minor, or if it would just be doing several different things that wouldn’t really blend. She applied to Design because the studio sequence would be next-to-impossible to get into as a freshman non-major, whereas the prereqs for CogSci/CompSci should be accessible regardless of major… but there’s no way she would go to Davis for the design major by itself. My sense is that this option won’t add up and if Davis is her best option in the UC system, she’ll go to Northeastern instead, where blended majors are overtly supported and encouraged. (Plus she’s liking the idea of co-ops, and being in Boston.)

Then there’s RPI and Rochester. The design piece is missing at Rochester but they make up for that with excellent music opportunities and one of the best smaller-college type experiences of the schools she’s applying to, and of course excellent CogSci/CompSci. At RPI she applied to the design program, because you can only pick one major to apply to, but the majority of design students are double-majors, with MechE+Design being the most common but CompSci+Design also a well-worn path. The CogSci department looks great and fairly computationally-oriented, such that the major requirements for CogSci and CompSci overlap a great deal, so I don’t see why CogSci+Design shouldn’t be as much of an option as CompSci+Design, but an inquiry email on the subject went unanswered… and the downsides of RPI (Troy, 70/30 M/F ratio, and a culture that may veer too far into “nerd culture” territory to appeal, as my D is not a gamer/anime fan/etc.) are likely to outweigh the appeal of the academic programs unless they knock our socks off with a merit aid offer much better than Northeastern’s.

How’s that for a detailed answer? Kudos if you got through that :slight_smile:

Hi @aquapt.

D18 and I spent three full days on campus at UBC in November. My D has decided that if she attends UBC, she will major in Linguistics instead of CogSys, so that she would have more flexibility. So, we didn’t learn much specifically about the CogSys program while we were there. I can tell you general impressions of the university, though.

The campus is huge, beautiful, and somewhat isolated. We stayed at West Coast Suites, a nice hotel attached to one of the residence halls. We rarely left campus. Although there is some limited on-campus housing, it feels much like a commuter campus. It is VERY quiet in the evenings, and there aren’t many restaurants open past 5-6. (Of course the dining halls in the dorm would have their dinner hours, but choices beyond that seem slim). The biggest crowds we saw around dinner time were at the bus loop. Granted, we did not spend much time near the freshman dorms that time of day, so there may be more activity over there.

University facilities are fantastic. The new student center, called the Nest, is very impressive.

Overall, the university staff and faculty seem to be very organized, helpful, and efficient. My D really enjoyed the classes she visited, and our interactions with advisors and student reps were all positive. UBC students seem serious, focused and mature. And physically fit! Skiing and hiking are very popular up there. I asked an advisor how American students do at UBC in general. She said they are usually surpised at how hard their classes are and many are overwhelmed. It’s certainly not for everyone, but my D loves it. It is not her number one choice for two reasons: she’s not crazy about the housing options (freshman dorm choices are limited, and upper class housing is not guaranteed, with off-campus housing not within walking distance), and the academic offerings, while very good, don’t match up exactly with what she wants to study.

@aquapt ha ha I did get through it and thank you for such a thorough post! You are a wealth of information! I don’t know much about Northwestern’s program in CogSci other than it’s a great school and we know someone who got into a lot of great schools and chose it and is majoring in CogSci so she must have thought it was the best for her, but haven’t talked to her or the parent in detail about it.

Re Irvine - I have heard it’s a commuter school but when we visited we saw tons of kids on campus and it felt very lively - but we weren’t there on a weekend. I hadn’t heard they have new thrust in the direction of attracting computer gamers and game-designers - how do you hear all this stuff? :slight_smile:

My D also applied to CU Boulder, exact same thought process as yours but her major would be Pysch and would do the Cog Sci certificate. Our tour guide just happened to be a Psych major who did the Cog Sci certificate. She said it’s not a huge curriculum to do the certificate, she said it’s sort of like “a little less than a minor” which made my daughter unsure about whether it was worth it.

UC Davis we haven’t visited yet, my daughter feels more drawn to So. Cal but she did apply. Their campus looks very modern which I know she’d like as she is very affected by the physical environment of a school and doesn’t care for old brick ivy-covered buildings - loves clean, modern design.

My daughter doesn’t want to go as far from home as the east coast so she didn’t apply to RPI or Rochester.

I agree instinctively with what you’ve said that it is better to be at a school with a dedicated Cog Sci department if that is your major but interesting to hear that your older daughter confirmed that from her experience.

By the way, I think your daughter’s test scores are more than just “good”!

@lkg4answers my daughter applied to the same UCs as you plus UCSC :slight_smile: Did you also apply to any privates or out of state schools? For UCSB she put down her desired major would be the BS in Psychological and Brain Sciences

@CAtransplant are you in So Cal? At UCSB the major doesn’t really matter if you are in the College of Letters and Science. They make it very easy to switch majors. Did UCSC as well but forgot to mention that. :slight_smile: Also applied to SLO, SDSU, CSULB and need to finish up applications for Santa Clara and LMU.

@lkg4answers we live in Nor Cal but my daughter likes middle of the coast and So Cal a lot. She also applied to SLO and SDSU and some privates. That’s good to hear about UCSB being easy to switch majors. She loved it there when we toured but was a bit concerned about the party school rep - not sure if that is really something to be concerned about though. Any thoughts on that?

Hi @CAtransplant , @lkg4answers @ShrimpBurrito & all -

Here’s a link about UCI and its focus: https://news.uci.edu/press-releases/uci-to-launch-first-of-its-kind-official-e-sports-initiative-in-the-fall/
Quote from article: “UCI is home to a dedicated gaming community. A recent survey of students found that 72 percent identify as gamers and 89 percent support the creation of an e-sports team. College Magazine ranked UCI the No. 1 school for gamers in 2015. The Association of Gamers boasts the highest membership of any student club on campus, and the computer game science major in the Donald Bren School of Information & Computer Sciences is the largest in the country.”

I don’t remember where/when I initially read about this, but it stuck in my mind. They are giving actual scholarships for high-end League of Legends players! “Not that there’s anything wrong with that,” lol - it’s a hugely popular field and a brilliant way for a mid-level UC to market itself - but my sense is that the gaming culture at UCI will only become more prominent, and my kid just isn’t that target demographic.

Thanks for the UBC report, @ShrimpBurrito - that’s great information. I’m not sure my D is the ideal mature/independent kid for that environment - she’s a great kid, but kind of the “Peter Pan” of the family - has savored her childhood, isn’t in a tremendous rush to grow up, and sometimes struggles to advocate for herself. She may need a bit more “scaffolding” than UBC provides. Vancouver is wonderful, though… and I’ll admit there was a bit of a post-election-day impulse along the lines of, “How 'bout we stash you in Canada for the next four years?” LOL… probably not the ideal basis for a college decision, but can’t deny those feelings are in the mix. :smiley:

My ex and I both got our undergrad degrees in Boston/Cambridge, and my daughter spent six weeks there in 2015, at the BU high school honors summer program. (She could not stand any more of the only French teacher at our HS, so looked for a summer program where she could take a credit-bearing French class and use her elective time at home for better things - also took a painting class and got her feet wet vis-a-vis urban life, which she hadn’t really experienced before.) So she has a bit of a comfort level with Boston, plus I have friends and relatives there and around New England, including my mom who is in a Memory Care unit in NH. Daughter was super happy when the Northeastern acceptance came through, though I wish the merit aid were better. (Three years of scholarship starting sophomore year… not to look a gift horse in the mouth, but whyy?) NU isn’t a CogSci powerhouse, but the CompSci+X combined degrees get great reviews, and the kids get terrific co-op opportunities. CompSci can be combined with design, cognitive psychology, linguistics, sociology… so a combined degree and maybe an additional minor could potentially cover the bases pretty well.

D also applied to SLO (CompSci but interested in the LAES - Liberal Arts & Engineering Studies program - which doesn’t admit freshmen directly), and to SJSU and CSULB for Industrial Design. Northwestern has been more on her radar since a HS friend signed as a recruited athlete (fencing), but I’m still dubious about it being a good fit. The application is pretty straightforward though, so if she wants to apply now and look more closely if she gets in, fine with me. :slight_smile:

@aquapt, @CAtransplant- I am somewhat surprised to hear that about Rice Cog Sci…

Tufts might be a good fit

CS is very strong - particularly AI/Machine Learning. It can be taken either as an engineering or liberal arts major. Google and Microsoft are top employers and both have development labs a couple of miles away (near MIT).
http://www.cs.tufts.edu/About-CS/cool-facts-about-cs-at-tufts.html

Cognitive and Brain Sciences is very strong and one of the domains of expertise is music cognition.
http://ase.tufts.edu/psychology/undergraduate/concCognitive.htm
https://ase.tufts.edu/psychology/people/patel/

There is aso an innovative Engineering Psychology major (sometimes called Human Factors Design or Human Computer Interaction) that can be taken either through the school of Engineering or Liberal Arts.
http://ase.tufts.edu/psychology/undergraduate/concEngineeringPsych.htm
http://enews.tufts.edu/stories/223/2006/09/25/Cutting-EdgeEngineering

There is also a Music Engineering Minor that is taken by Liberal Arts and engineering students.
http://www.tuftl.tufts.edu/musicengineering/
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=akgJSzh5mnY

In terms of music, there is a partnership with NEC (across the river in Boston)
Tufts also has great facilities of its own
http://www.smfa.edu/files/SP-16-Courses-for-Tufts-Students-v5.pdf

In terms of the artistic side of design, Tufts recently acquired the The School of the Museum of Fine Arts - which offers courses at Tufts undergrad campus as well as at the MFA campus (near Northeastern)
http://www.smfa.edu/files/SP-16-Courses-for-Tufts-Students-v5.pdf

Good Luck!

Thanks, @Mastadon - we actually visited Tufts, and I showed my daughter a lot of this same info, and for some reason it just didn’t resonate. Not sure why, but after a few rounds of “Are you sure…?” I decided it was silly to be jumping up and down campaigning for a top-tier no-merit-aid school if she was going to be “meh” about it. I agree it could have been a good fit but something about it just rubbed her the wrong way. Maybe all the taxidermy lore about Jumbo the Elephant was too much for her :smiley:

Yeah, it’s been a disappointment that CogSci at Rice hasn’t been a better experience. Older daughter was an officer in the BRAiN student organization (can’t remember what it’s an acronym for), and they have worked to improve student advising which was a particularly weak point, so that may improve things a bit. I do think that the students who want to get into heavy neuroscience research have some great opportunities because of all the med-center research collaboration in the area… my daughter figured out early that spending her time in a lab finely-slicing rodent brains was not her path, so she didn’t benefit from those opportunities. She notes that while advising is very strong for STEM at Rice, it’s hit-and-miss in social sciences and humanities, so she didn’t learn a lot early on about which departments offer which kind of opportunities. Since all the CogSci faculty primarily “belong” to other departments, she feels that they prioritize their own students in their own departments, and the CogSci students are sort of “mentoring orphans” unless they get involved in research through other departments like she ultimately did. It may well be possible to navigate these pitfalls and compensate for them if you understand the situation going in and seek out the connections that don’t happen automatically through the department, but it’s definitely not a situation where you can just show up and take the prescribed classes and expect that someone will automatically have you on radar and look out for your interests.

Another disappointment at Rice has been the recent decision to lower the cap on the credits people can register for. One saving grace for my daughter has been the ability to register for one more class each semester than she truly intends to take, and then to drop one after attending a few classes and studying the syllabi. This has saved her from some really terrible classes she might otherwise have gotten stuck in. But the university doesn’t want the kids to have this level of “shopping around” power, so they’ve lowered the credit ceiling. (Grandfathering my daughter’s class with the old policy, but the younger students are NOT happy.) For what Rice costs, IMHO there should either be better quality control, or the kids should have that ability to shop around and drop classes that aren’t well-planned or well-taught. All that said, Rice has been a great experience in many ways; but some programs are much stronger than others. The President is quite unpopular, and recent policy shifts are not empowering to students. That’s the trend everywhere in higher ed, though, unfortunately.

@aquapt thanks for sharing the info on U Irvine - very interesting that they are doing that. The gaming center and all the focus on gaming doesn’t appeal to my daughter either.

@CAtransplant UCSB is definitely a party school. The influx of SB City College kids moving into Isla Vista in recent years has made the party scene worse. The university is buying up property in IV hoping that they can clean things up.

I graduated in '85 and it was even considered a party school back then. That said, I was much more disciplined and organized with my studying because I knew that there was always going to be something happening in the evenings/weekends. I went to UCB for grad school and with the gloomy weather and semester system, I procrastinated a lot more.

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While an undergrad at Michigan, I took a class with professor John Holland, the father of Genetic Algorithms. It is hands down the most fascinating class I ever took. Sadly, professor Holland passed away a couple of years ago, but Michigan remains a leader in the fields of Computer Science, Psychology and Cognitive Science.

@lkg4answers thanks for your assessment on UCSB. I will send you a PM as I don’t want to take this thread off topic.