Schools with good music performance programs?

<p>I am in high school and am starting to look to looks at colleges I'd like to apply to. I would really love to double major. I want one of my majors to be music performance, but I have no idea what schools have good programs for what I'd like to do. My other major would probably end up being anthropology or international/global studies. I've heard that USC's Thorton is outstanding, but I have no idea how competitive the admissions are. Does anyone know something about this? I play the violin, so of course I'd like to attend somewhere that has a great orchestra, string ensembles, and string teachers. I know there are a bunch of colleges with great music programs, I just have no idea where to start looking. does anyone have any suggestions? I'd like to attend a larger university or college, prefferably in an urban area. There is a possibility that I might pursue my master's after being an undergrad as well.</p>

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<p>Check out the pinned thread near the top of the Music Major forum ā€œSuggestions of Colleges with Music Majorsā€ : <a href=ā€œSuggestions of Colleges with Music Majors - Music Major - College Confidential Forumsā€>http://talk.collegeconfidential.com/music-major/6280-suggestions-of-colleges-with-music-majors.html&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/p&gt;

<p>Also, our very favorite thread for those first thinking about majoring in music - which SHOULD be a pinned thread: <a href=ā€œhttp://talk.collegeconfidential.com/music-major/258796-so-you-want-to-be-music-major-one-family-s-experience.htmlā€>http://talk.collegeconfidential.com/music-major/258796-so-you-want-to-be-music-major-one-family-s-experience.html&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/p&gt;

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<p>Ask your violin teacher about good schools. If they canā€™t give you any suggestions or canā€™t tell you whether you might be competitive at places like USC, then probably either you arenā€™t or you need a new teacher. [Interpretation: If a teacher isnā€™t aware of appropriate music schools for a variety of levels of students, then they probably have little experience preparing students for music school: time to get a new teacher. The range of teachers is huge and a teacher that might be excellent with 13-year-olds might be clueless about preparing repertoire to the level necessary for a good music school.] </p>

<p>Two other suggestions: 1. Search out the discussions under music major that deal with double majors; some good music schools within good universities do not allow a music major to major in another discipline. Due to the heavy practice requirements of a music performance major at a good school, the double major involving music as one of the majors is usually much more difficult than other combinations of double majors.</p>

<ol>
<li>Arrange some lessons at music schools that you are considering. Before the end of the lesson ask the instructor what schools they think would be suitable for you to apply to.</li>
</ol>

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<p>You might want to read this essay on the Peabody site about different ways to study music (and show it to your parents too): <a href=ā€œhttp://www.peabody.jhu.edu/conservatory/admissions/tips/doubledegree.htmlā€>http://www.peabody.jhu.edu/conservatory/admissions/tips/doubledegree.html&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/p&gt;

<p>If you want to do a performance major, and also have strong academic interests, you might want to consider a double degree, which is different from a double major, and usually takes 5 years. Well known double degree programs include Oberlin, Bard, Lawrence, Peabody/Johnā€™s Hopkins, Eastman/U. of Rochester, Michigan, Tufts/NEC, Harvard/NEC (MM), Hartt, Ithaca, Juilliard/Columbia and probably many others. </p>

<p>USC allows a second bachelorā€™s but financial aid is iffy, and it is not set up as a double degree but as a sequential ā€œsecond BA,ā€ which is treated as a transfer. USC has double majors but there, as at any school, combining performance study with another major may be hard: look at websites, course requirements for a performance major, and for another academic area, and add the courses up to see if it fits in a schedule.</p>

<p>For performance, you have the option of conservatory (BM), or a music school within a university (BM). If you chose a BA at a college or university, music majors are often ā€œgeneralā€ music, meaning an academic subject with music theory, history, composition, technology, ethnomusicology and so on, and sometimes performance too. You can check colleges that you would choose for your other interests, and see how much performance is in their music curriculum.</p>

<p>A BM is usually 2/3-3/4 music classes, and a BA is usually 1/4-1/3 music classes, with distribution requirements of some sort usually required. </p>

<p>Another option is to study anthropology or international relations for a BA and do violin on the side, participating in extracurricular ensembles and taking lessons privately. Some performers donā€™t do music at all at college, studying something else, and taking lessons with a private teacher within or outside of the school. But a conservatory or music school will most likely offer the highest level of ensemble or orchestra, lessons are provided, and it is understood how much time is needed for practice and rehearsal.</p>

<p>I would look into double degrees as the most feasible way to study both performance and your other interests.</p>

<p>Good luck!</p>

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<p>To answer your question about USC-- yes, it is competitive for both academic and music admissions. But, as the others say above, we donā€™t know know your level of playing or academics. Other programs mentioned above are also excellent. You might also want to look into Vanderbilt.</p>

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<p>ā€œUSC allows a second bachelorā€™s but financial aid is iffy, and it is not set up as a double degree but as a sequential ā€œsecond BA,ā€ which is treated as a transfer.ā€</p>

<p>Iā€™m confused by a few things mentioned above. First, financial aid at USC is considered great by many, lacking by many others. Like many other schools, USC meets 100% of USC-determined need using the FAFSA and CSS profile. Like many other schools, some people love their packages; others donā€™t. With financial aid, you never know until you try.</p>

<p>As for the double degree question, there are several double majors in my sonā€™s graduating class at Thornton. Some of them took an extra year to complete requirements for both majors (many of Thorntonā€™s instruments and programs do not allow for many electives, making it hard to complete two majors in four years). A double major may not be the same as having two separate degrees, but Iā€™m not sure what difference that would make, particularly in any of the humanities such as anthropology. There are even more students who ā€œminoredā€ in their second subject. I donā€™t know what is meant by ā€œtreated as a transfer.ā€ </p>

<p>Like others mentioned, U of Michigan, NYU Northwestern are other universities with conservatories. Others are U of Denver Lamont School of Music, U of Indiana (forget the name of the conservatory). </p>

<p>Youā€™ll find lots of info in this forum!</p>

<p>jazz/shreddermom - I think compmom was referring not to a double major at USC, for which there is substantial financial support through need-based aid - but applying for a second bachelorā€™s degree for which there might not be that financial support. She says that second degree is treated as for a transfer student - that must be if you want to graduate with the two separate degrees, rather than majors. Obviously this is confusing, and a question for the administration!</p>

<p>As for what difference it makes to have two degrees, rather than a double major - Iā€™m not sure myself - even with my son getting two degrees! I think it means that youā€™ve completed a more lengthy curriculum for each individual degree - rather than just taken the extra classes in a subject for a double major. Double majoring for a BA is so common these days, and usually just means focusing oneā€™s electives on a single subject area. I know, at Bard, the two degrees require a Senior Project in the academic subject, and a Senior Recital in music. Whether having two separate degrees means anything for graduate school or subsequent employment, I do not know the answer to. A BA vs a BM might make a difference, perhapsā€¦</p>

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<p>I agree that ā€œfinancial supportā€ questions (still not sure what that means) are best answered by administration!</p>

<p>However, I do know this: A ā€œdouble majorā€ at USC must complete ALL the requirements for BOTH majors, with only the GE core requirements filling the same role for both majors (obviously, they donā€™t need to take two of all the GEā€™s). Thatā€™s why it often takes an extra year. </p>

<p>A minor in a second subject is a smaller concentration of electives in that subject. This can typically be done in four years IF the music major has enough elective space (and many donā€™t) or if the student comes in with enough AP units.</p>

<p>If the student chooses to complete a ā€œsecond degreeā€ once theyā€™ve finished their first, then they are treated as transfer students in that any new GE requirements not in existence when they first began will need to be completed. I donā€™t believe thatā€™s what the OP was asking about. It seems the OP meant a dual degree or double major, which at USC, are no different.</p>

<p>Going to graduate school for a performance career now is pretty much a necessity (unless one goes to Europe, for instance, to study with a particular teacher) and getting a great job with just a bachelors degree in an academic subject isnā€™t very likely anymore either. So keep this in mind when choosing a school for your undergrad degrees!</p>

<p>There have been a lot of threads about this, and in a nutshell, a lot depends both on your academics and your playing ability about where to go. In general, the music schools in a university that might allow you to double major, also tend to be competitive on the music and academic fronts, and with your chosen instrument being the violin, almost any program that is decent is going to be very competitive to oh-my-goodness- competitive. Some of the schools others have mentioned are better at Academics than music IMO as a whole, some of the music schools within universities have strong music programs but not necessarily on the violin, and what generally happens is the student comes to some sort of happy median betweeen the academic school, the teacher and the overall quality of the music school. To me, if you are serious about performance, the teacher is going to weight heavily. </p>

<p>I agree with others, you need to talk to your music teacher and see what they know. Some music teachers are really knowledgeable, know the schools and faculty, but a lot IME donā€™t and that can be a problem, there are a lot of violin teachers specifically that live in la la land IME, they live in a world that either never existed or did 30 or 40 years ago and could give you bad adviceā€¦but they are the place to start with, to see if they know anything about programs, and also ask for feedback on where you are level wise as well. Like I said, any violin program of any worth is going to be uber competitive, so it is important to assess where you are and what you need to do to achieve your goals. One thing I would recommend, if you live anywhere near a school that has a highly regarded school of music, contact a teacher on the faculty and pay to get an assessment (try to see what kind of reputation the teacher has), that is huge and worth the money. </p>

<p>USC was specifically mentioned by the original poster and did not apparently offer a double degree. It would be good to clarify this, if someone knows otherwise. I was looking for that to help him/her out and ran into the ā€œsecond degreeā€ option described on their site, which did not seem like an optimal path, for a number of reasons. </p>

<p>Since the original poster was interested in double degree or double major at Thornton/USC, perhaps someone more in the know can provide details on this. </p>

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<p>Thanks for the help, guys. I talked to my private violin teacher about this before. She said that when she was in college she doubled majored in music and medicine, which is actually where I got the idea of double majoring from. However, I donā€™t want to be so consumed in my studies that I wonā€™t be able to have a social life. Do you think Iā€™d struggle with this if I decided to have two majors?</p>

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<p>Another school Iā€™m considering is UCLA. Is the music program as good as USCā€™s?</p>

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<p>I wonder what your teacher meant by ā€œmedicineā€ as a major. Was she in a premed program? (A lot of schools donā€™t have a premed major; you can major in anything and go to med school. In fact, music majors do very very well as a group, with med school admissions.) It sounds like she did a lot of sciences. It must have been tough combining sciences with music. Did she take 5 years?</p>

<p>Regarding a double major, you really need to look at each school, maybe talk with them, add up courses required for each major, distribution requirements, and see how they all fit in each year and in four to five years.</p>

<p>Again, you do not need to go to a conservatory to accomplish your goals. If you do want a conservatory, then I would find one on a campus that offers a double degree (BA/BM or BA/MM), and plan on 5 years. The double major will most likely take that long anyway.</p>

<p>UCLAā€™s Herb Alpert School of Music offers a BA in music performance. USC Thornton offers either a BA or BM. You might also look at CS Long Beach. </p>

<p>The real question here might be, why do you want another major/degree? Do you feel a need to back up a music degree with something else (is your teacher telling you this, or your parents?) or do you have a strong interest in the other academic areas you mentioned? If it is ffor backup purposes, I kind of hope you can come to the conclusion that ā€œjustā€ studying music is more than enough!</p>

<p>Good luck!</p>

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<p>UCLAā€™s music program has had a major infusion of money into it (the Herb Alpert School of music came with a 100 million dollar donation:), and from what I know of it it is decent. However, the real question is how good the violin program is there, how good the teachers are, I can only say that I havenā€™t heard it mentioned as one of the better programs in terms of violin studies, but take that with a grain of salt and then some, that is simply my experience. USC has a strong strings department, Midori is the chair there and recently Glenn Dictorow (retiring CM of the NY Phil and long time teacher) joined the violin faculty. </p>

<p>As far as double majoring/dual degree programs, I agree with others, if the whole point is to have a ā€˜backupā€™ for music, I would rethink it, because doing both, while possible, is difficult and generally is a 5 year program. It sounds tempting, to have a ā€˜usableā€™ degree along with the music degree, but the reality of many college degrees is they may not be much more valuable than just getting a music degree, in terms of getting a job outside music (it varies, but many liberal arts degrees, even in sciences, as a bachelor is not going to be that much more valuable if at all than a music degree). If you want to go pre med, in theory you could get a music degree and take the necessary pre med track courses, or you could get a music degree, decide you want to go to med school, and take the necessary courses after you get the music degree( a lot of colleges now have programs specifically addressing this, people wanting to go to med school who didnā€™t take the pre med curricula). I donā€™t know your teacher, but unless she is teaching on the side and has a ā€˜full timeā€™ job in the area she got her degree in, what value is the other degree in her life? Why would dual degree/double majoring do for you if you donā€™t want to do the other thing? I would agree with others, it might be better if you are passionate with music to major in that rather than doing another degree or whatever, because drudging through another degree that you donā€™t particularly like to have something ā€˜bankableā€™ is going to make you music experience a lot less fulfilling I suspectā€¦</p>

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<p>Well, if I would have to choose between studying music or humanities, I would definately pick music. My private teacher actually teaches lessons full time and also plays for the local symphony on the side, and has a doctorates degree in medicine (I donā€™t know what kind). There isnā€™t really a big need for me to have two majors, I just thought it would be nice to have another kind of degree besides music, in case that doesnā€™t work out for me in the future. Maybe choosing music performance as my major and humanities as a minor would be a better option?</p>

<p>I think it is fine to go in majoring in music and take a few other courses and see where it all takes you. Again, if your interest lies more in music and the idea of another major (or minor) is for a ā€œbackup,ā€ my personal opinion is that you should pursue music. But always stay open to other interests and directions as they develop naturally. I believe that overplanning can sometimes get in the way of things.</p>

<p>If you are in a BM program, the focus will be more narrowly music (2/3-3/4, and if you do a BA program, majoring in music, you will take more courses in other subjects (more than half). You can apply to both and decide later.</p>

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<p>compmom, thank you for the advice!
I still have another year to decide what to do, but I will most likely pursue a major in music</p>

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<p>Good luck!</p>

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