Schools With Good Science Departments and Generous Financial Aids?

Parent Cafe
1

<p>Hi! I posted this on College Search and Selection forum, but I'm cross-posting here in hopes of getting more suggestions, since, as parents, you know more schools with good financial aids than most students. =)</p>

<p>Stats:</p>

<p>GPA: 4.0 unweighted/98 average; 6.6/6 weighted (our district has a peculiar way of calculating GPA - 6.0 for normal & 7.0 for H/AP classes)
Rank: 34/831 (this was at the beginning of junior year with only fresh and soph grades - I hope my ranking has gone up with my junior year grades)
SAT I: 2280 (790-M, 720-CR, 770-W)
APs: 5 - World History, Computer Science A; 4 - Chemistry, USH</p>

<p>Activities:</p>

<ul>
<li>Teacher for 2nd grade Vietnamese class at St. Joseph Catholic School every Saturday (10th, 11th, 12th)</li>
<li>TA for 3rd grade bible class at St. Joseph every Saturday (11th)</li>
<li>TA for Confirmation class at St. Joseph every Sunday (11th)</li>
<li>JAM (Jesus and Me) Core Team (coordinating retreats for the church) (11th & 12th)</li>
<li>Math club (11th & 12th)</li>
<li>MSA club (11th & 12th)</li>
<li>Computer Science club (11th)</li>
<li>TA for my former Chemistry AP teacher after school (12th) - this is iffy, as my teacher said he's not entirely sure if he would be able to offer this position or not, but if he's able to, he'll let me know</li>
</ul>

<p>I realize my activities are very, very weak. I did not join any club during my first two years of high school because of family reasons. (During my first two years, I had 4 brothers, sister, and cousin going to elementary school. As my parents do not get home until late afternoon, I had to be home early and could not stay after school for any club of sort. In my junior year, one of my brothers entered middle school and henceforth deemed "old enough" to take care of the kids for 2 hours.) This is also the reason I had to drop Marching Band. I hope that, if my counselor would explain this to colleges, it would not be held against me.</p>

<p>Projected Senior classes:</p>

<ul>
<li>Government Honors (I'd take it AP, but as I'm taking this Zero Hour - an early class at 6:30, an hour before school officially starts - Honors is the only level offered; however, I'll be taking the AP test for this regardless)</li>
<li>Economics AP</li>
<li>English IV AP</li>
<li>Physics C AP</li>
<li>Biology AP</li>
<li>Calculus BC AP</li>
<li>2-D Arts I</li>
<li>Foundations of Personal Fitness (semester class - part of P.E. requirements)</li>
</ul>

<p>Schools:</p>

<ul>
<li>Rice (ED): I really love Rice, but the chance of me getting in is very, very slim, even when applying ED (I'm in Houston). Plus, I would get a full-ride here if I get in.</li>
<li>UT Austin: I'm thinking of applying to either Plan II or Dean Scholar's Honors Program (both of which are as hard to get into as Rice); this is my ultimate safety school.</li>
<li>Texas A&M: it has better financial aids than UT Austin.</li>
<li>Trinity University (San Antonio): it is a lot smaller than both UT-A and TA&M.</li>
</ul>

<p>As I said above, I really, really love Rice, and would do anything that is not morally corruptive to go there. However, as there is such a small chance of me getting in, I'm looking for a few other schools to apply to in the likely case of rejection.</p>

<p>Mostly, I'm looking for schools with good Science Departments (I'm especially interested in Chemistry) and are very generous with financial aids. Plus, it would be nice if the school is small to medium sized, as the size factor is the major set back I have against UT-A and TA&M. I'm also looking for schools that are reaches and matches, as I already have my safeties.</p>

<p>My parents are very much opposed to me going to a school out-of-state (they balk at me going as far as Austin, even). However, as I have been advised to do by many parents when I posted about this on the parents forum, I'm applying to other private unis and hoping that really good financial aids would convince them to let me go out-of-state. </p>

<p>My family income last year was less than $30,000/year for a family of 6. For the past 2 months, my mom had to quit work because she's undergoing a treatment for Hep C, which makes her extremely anemic. Our family income will go down considerably because of this. So I'm hoping to apply to a few schools where, if accepted, perhaps I'll be able to get full financial aids, because otherwise, there is no chance of me being able to attend.</p>

<p>Please recommend schools that I should look at. Extreme reaches are all right, as it won't hurt me a bit to at least try. =)</p>

<p>Thank you so much!</p>

2

<p>Since I know next to nothing about texan schools, I can only give out of state suggestions, but...definitely consider MIT. Obviously it's top in sciences and will give you lots of aid considering your situation. Many of the ivies would too, though they arent all strong in chem.</p>

<p>If you're female, try caltech- a reach certainly, but worth a shot.</p>

<p>A more matchy school might be carnegie mellon. Good luck!</p>

3

<p>All colleges that commit to meet 100% of need, i.e., the entire Ivy League, MIT, Stanford, Duke, Chicago, and a host of top liberal arts colleges. If your family truly has so little income, need-based aid can be very generous. Harvard (and, I believe, several other schools, but I don't remember the details) has committed to financing 100% of its cost loan-free for students from families with less than $40,000 income.</p>

<p>Don't be distracted by all the focus on merit aid on this site. For many relatively well-to-do families, there is a huge gap between what these colleges think the family should be able to pay and what the family thinks it is able to pay, so merit scholarships become key. For families with as little income as yours, need-based aid is absolutely fine -- often better than merit aid at the 100%-of-need schools.</p>

<p>And you should be extremely proud of your record -- there isn't any school that you are not qualified to attend. That doesn't mean you'll be accepted everywhere, of course, because lots of other kids are qualified, too. </p>

<p>One thing you may think about is looking at some good liberal arts colleges where the school has good science facilities and faculty, but they attract fewer science-oriented students than elsewhere. (I'm thinking of Wesleyan, in Connecticut, for one.) The combination of your background, gender, and interest in science would be a plus for you there.</p>

4

<p>We did the TX school thing and D found that the FA was better in the elite schools that meet 100% of demonstrated need. Trinity does not, and the only merit aid they had was scholarships that ranged from 4k to 11k. They offered lots of loans and some work/study. D received the highest scholarship, and it still left over 17k per year to pay. That was about what U of Chicago, etc. wanted us to pay, Check out Amherst whose nueroscience dept. is wonderful, and so is bio. Their FA was the best we found. We are from Houston area, as well. That is what worked for D. For you, check out the elite schools and you may find that there is a lot out there for someone with your background. Lots of schools into diversity, and Vietnamese is uRM.</p>

5

<p>Thanks for all the replies!</p>

<p>somethingnew, I didn't think much about MIT and Caltech because I thought that they're at the top only in engineering, and not so much in science, but I'll definitely check them out now. I really liked MIT when I went to an info session last year. I'll also see into Carnegie Mellon. (And yes, I'm a female. =))</p>

<p>JHS, thank you for all the suggestions! I will look into all those schools. Because of the situation you've said, I had tried to convince my parents to let me apply to out-of-state private schools, since they are a lot more generous with financial aids than many public schools (UT-A doesn't give a lot of money, from what I gathered from my friends). It is proving to be difficult, since they don't know any English (we came to the US from VN 6 years ago, and as they jumped straight to works that don't require a lot of English, they haven't really learned it) and don't understand much about the college application process. All that they know are from their Vietnamese co-workers who have children in colleges or are about to apply to colleges, most of whom are staying in Houston, hence they are adamant against me going out-of-state. I'm hoping getting full financial aids from a good university would convince them otherwise.</p>

<p>What you've described with Harvard sounds a lot like with Rice, only Rice will finance 100% for students from families with under $30,000 income. I will try to find out all the schools that offer this. =)</p>

<p>I never really thought about LACs, since I just assumed they are only into liberal art majors (even though I really like that they're smaller in size than a lot of universities). But now that I know otherwise, I will definitely look into a few of them as well. Thanks! =)</p>

<p>ejr1, thank you for telling me that about Trinity. I considered the school because it's small compared to the public universities, but I didn't know very much about its financial and merit aids. Amherst seems to be on a lot of CC'ers' lists, and from your account, it sounds like a very good school, so I will definitely check it out.</p>

6

<p>Don't worry about not having a huge grocery list of EC's - you have a consistent and deep commitment to teaching at your church on your weekends. Your HS record and test scores are excellent.</p>

<p>With that in mind and also your family income, there are many schools that will meet your financial needs, either through grants or scholarships.</p>

<p>I don't know much about Texas schools, but if you decide to broaden your search, let me recommend Hamilton College (my daughter graduated as a chem major) and Furman University.</p>

7

<p>Shina - I think you have an excellent chance at Rice (although they may be more selective with the in town students they accept).</p>

<p>Overall, your best bet will be the generous 100% need schools - the HYPS, MIT, Amherst, etc. Something you should consider carefully is transportation. 100% need schools will give you an allotment for transportation, but at your family income, there will be little money for extras. You should be able to get good flights out of Houston on Continental, and stretch your travel funding.</p>

<p>Williams would be a great idea but, W and Amherst are a little off the beaten path. I would suggest Swarthmore (major airport with public transport to the school), Univ of Chicago, Carleton (yes you have to take a bus from Minn/St.Paul, but there probably is a direct flight to Minneapolis.
LSU might deserve a look as a safety, they have a pretty good chemistry program, and should give you merit aid if they are not too cash strapped from Katrina - also an easy trip from Houston.
Trinity is a great school, but I'm not sure that they will cover your expenses as well as the 100% need schools. Rhodes College is a peer of Trinity, and is known for giving good FA, although they also give generous merit, and may not meet all your need.</p>

<p>Be ready to send out a lot of apps, apply for fee waivers, you should qualify easily, and if you are denied, then that school may well not come through with the money you need to attend either. Since you will probably get the most money from the schools that are the most selective, you will need to send in a more apps.</p>

<p>Consider using some of your experiences caring for your sibs in an essay. You can make it clear in a creative way that your child care duties were a family necessity - that will explain your financial situation without making excuses, and set you apart from the general crowd of applicants.</p>

<p>Also, can you afford to apply ED to Rice??? Do they guarantee to meet 100% of need??? If they have made the "Harvard offer", which would cover the expenses of a person with your family income, then it probably won't matter if you apply ED, but I would discuss this with a GC or other adult. DOes your family own any property, or a business?? Ownership could mean that despite the low income, you have a higher EFC.</p>

8

<p>I've read a few of your posts and you probably realise by now that you are competitive for admission to most schools, even the top ones. I would suggest that you apply to large privates in or near major urban cities.(Airfares are much cheaper between larger cities). I say that because they are the ones that tend to give generous financial aid based on need. And of course, if you are accepted to Harvard, Princeton, Yale, Penn with substantial aid, your family would probably let you go because they will be impressed by the prestige. Good luck.</p>

9

<p>In addition to all these schools, I beg you to consider Harvey Mudd College. 80% of our Chem alums get PhD's.</p>

10

<p>I agree with the suggestion that you apply to top schools such as Harvard, MIT, Princeton, Stanford, Yale, because you will qualify for need-based aid at all of them and they are quite generous. as is Rice. I do believe that you are competitive for all of them (it does not mean that you will get into all of them, but that you have a good chance). Look into schools that are in the Questbridge program as well.
Your EC's are fine, don't worry about them. Taking care of your siblings IS an EC.
One factor to consider is convenience of travel to and from Houston. When applying, asking for application fee waivers so that the fees do not impose and extra burden on your family .</p>

<p>Good luck!</p>

11

<p>bethel, thanks. I'm glad to hear that. My E.C.s have always been the part where I'm most concerned about, as the majority of them are done during my junior year. I really enjoyed them, but I'm just afraid that, with such a short span of time (my longest was from the beginning of 10th grade), admission officers would just see them as something I just started to do my junior year to get into colleges (which is partially true in case of the clubs, as I didn't greatly enjoy them since we did almost nothing except attending meetings and going to competitions, but I loved working as a teacher and a TA at my church). And thank you for the suggestions. I'm adding them to my list of colleges I should look into. =)</p>

<p>cangel, thank you! Being so dense that I am, I haven't thought of transportation at all. I will definitely look into that for the schools you've mentioned as well as others. I think I will have to depend on fee waivers, because my parents would never pay for my applications for any school out-of-state. Luckily, some of the schools I've looked at so far accept copies of the SAT fee waiver as a legitimate source for fee waivers, and I still have mine from when I took the SAT in January. Others, I'm sure my counselor would be able to write a fee waiver to send to those schools.</p>

<p>I've been advised to use my experience of taking care of my siblings as a college essay, but I'm just not sure how to make it special. It's just too mundane - I mean, it's just something I've always done and never thought much about. It's as common as washing the dishes. I've thought of writing about my transition to the US from Vietnam in middle school and how learning English has taught me not to give up when things get rough. Perhaps I'll write both and see which one is better. =)</p>

<p>No, my family does not own any businesses (we used to at Vietnam, but I don't suppose that counts). And Rice does state that they'll meet all needs of families with income under $30,000 without any loans on their website - but I will discuss with my counselor when I ask her for a letter of recommendation, as she is more likely to understand it than my parents. Thank you for all the advice. :)</p>

<p>cbreeze, I thought I had an all right chance at the top schools when I first entered the process, mostly just looking at scores from College Board. However, upon hearing so many horror stories of last year's admissions and reading profiles of so many better applicants on CC, I kind of lost confidence and hope. But yes, I will apply to some of the top schools - at worst case scenario, all I'll lose are some hours writing essays and filling out applications. I never knew that airfares between major cities are cheaper (probably because my experience with airplanes are restricted to other countries). I will definitely keep that in mine when looking for more schools. Thanks! =)</p>

<p>tiyusufaly, I didn't consider Harvey Mudd at first, even though I heard many positive things about it on college_help community on livejournal because I thought it's most concentrated on engineering. But I will definitely check it out now, because it sounds really great! :)</p>

<p>marite, I've never heard of Questbridge before, so I will look into that. Thanks! =)</p>

12

<p>Don't overlook texas, although I am well aware that familiarity can unintentionally breed contempt. It is a world class school, and you have great credentials, and could do well there - which is what it is all about.</p>

13

<p>I apologize for my utter ignorance of school names, but do you mean Texas A&M? I have a lot of respect for that school, as both of my Chemistry teachers graduated from there (my 2 favorite teachers who contributed much to my love of Chemistry). However, as with UT Austin, I am a little wary of its size, as I've always wanted to go to a small to medium sized school. =)</p>

14

<p>Shina:</p>

<p>Often, but not always, the "flagship" (most prestigious, often largest) campus of a state university is referred to simply by the name of the state.</p>

<p>So . . . </p>

<p>University of Texas - Austin = Texas
UC Berkeley = California, or Cal
University of Michigan = Michigan
University of Illinois (Urbana-Champain) = Illinois
University of North Carolina (Chapel Hill) = Carolina, or North Carolina</p>

<p>etc.</p>

<p>Other institutions within the same state university system will be called something else:</p>

<p>UTEP, Texas A&M
UCLA, UCSB, UC Davis
Michigan State
Illinois-Chicago
NC State, UNC Greensboro</p>

<p>But</p>

<p>Pennsylvania State University (University Park) is not "Pennsylvania" or "Penn", since those refer to the University of Pennsylvania, a private Ivy League University that is about 100 years older. Penn State is Penn State.</p>

15

<p>Taking care of younger siblings is certainly a worthy EC, and you kept up good grades during that time.
Many excellent suggestions have been offered. I second the Caltech suggestion, as chem very strong there & they are generous with FA. I believe Texas has the most # of out-of-staters, which makes it easier to travel together and visit when home.
Harvey Mudd is another very good suggestion</p>

16

<p>JHS, thank you for the clarification! Everything makes so much sense now. I've always wondered about Cal and assumed that Texas is Texas A&M, although I was pretty befuddled, since it is normally referred to as A&M at my school. It's good to know the references. =)</p>

<p>bookworm, I'm not sure whether I'm allowed to list taking care of my siblings as an EC. I've just always assumed that I can't, since so many others have to do it, too (though not all of them have to sacrifice joining clubs for it). :)</p>

17

<p>Shina Laris</p>

<p>Baylor seems neat...</p>

<p>Science Department...</p>

<p><a href="http://www.baylor.edu/bsb/index.php?id=29955%5B/url%5D"&gt;http://www.baylor.edu/bsb/index.php?id=29955&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/p>

<p>Financial Aid Department speaks of merit aid, and you are a genius so you would qualify for some of that...</p>

<p><a href="http://www.baylor.edu/admissions/index.php?id=24812%5B/url%5D"&gt;http://www.baylor.edu/admissions/index.php?id=24812&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/p>

<p>Scholarship Calculator for Baylor, plug your stats in there when you have the time. You seem soo smart that it might break the scholarship calculator!...</p>

<p><a href="http://www.baylor.edu/admissions/index.php?id=33153%5B/url%5D"&gt;http://www.baylor.edu/admissions/index.php?id=33153&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/p>

<p>Texas A&M is a really fair school also. </p>

<p>You live in a state with really fine schools.</p>

18

<p>Shina, there are a number of schools that have low income initiatives (keep in mind they are going to be very competitive) which include: </p>

<p>Princeton</p>

<p>In 1998, Princeton began enacting significant changes in its financial aid policies to make the University more affordable for all undergraduate students. </p>

<p>The centerpiece of this reform was to eliminate the need for the student loan that usually is included in a student's aid package. The loan amount (typically in the $4,000 to $6,000 range) is replaced with an additional grant. </p>

<p><a href="http://www.princeton.edu/main/admission-aid/aid/%5B/url%5D"&gt;http://www.princeton.edu/main/admission-aid/aid/&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/p>

<p>Harvard:</p>

<p>Reinforcing its commitment to opportunity and excellence across the economic spectrum, Harvard today (March 30) announced a significant expansion of its 2004 financial aid initiative for low- and middle-income families. Beginning with the class admitted this week, parents in families with incomes of less than $60,000 will no longer be expected to contribute to the cost of their children attending Harvard. In addition, Harvard will reduce the contributions of families with incomes between $60,000 and $80,000. </p>

<p>Dartmouth
Starting with this fall's enrolling class, the Class of 2009, Dartmouth students whose family incomes are less than $30,000 will receive financial aid packages without student loans. The portion of the package that normally would be composed of loans will be replaced with additional scholarship funds. Barring significant changes to family financial circumstances, this no-loan financial aid package will be renewed each year for all four years. </p>

<p><a href="http://www.dartmouth.edu/apply/gener...eductions.html%5B/url%5D"&gt;http://www.dartmouth.edu/apply/gener...eductions.html&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/p>

<p>Stanford</p>

<p>Families earning less than $45,000 need not make tuition contribution</p>

<p>Families with annual incomes of less than $45,000 will not be expected to contribute to the cost of tuition at Stanford University, and the requirements for middle-income families will be cut in half, Richard Shaw, dean of undergraduate admission and financial aid, announced today.</p>

<p><a href="http://news-service.stanford.edu/news/2006/march15/tuition-031506.html%5B/url%5D"&gt;http://news-service.stanford.edu/news/2006/march15/tuition-031506.html&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/p>

<p>Penn</p>

<p>University of Pennsylvania Will Replace Loans With Grants for Students of Families Earning Less Than $50,000
March 23, 2006 </p>

<p>PHILADELPHIA -- Expanding its effort to alleviate the financial burden on low- and middle-income students and to continue attract top students with diverse economic backgrounds, the University of Pennsylvania will provide grants for undergraduate students from economically disadvantaged families with incomes of $50,000 or less, Penn President Amy Gutmann announced today.</p>

<p>This move coincides with a $6.3 million increase in the University's undergraduate financial aid budget for the coming academic year, with those funds targeted to middle- and low-income families, reaffirming Penn's commitment to need-blind admissions and meeting the full need of all students. </p>

<p><a href="http://www.upenn.edu/pennnews/article.php?id=925%5B/url%5D"&gt;http://www.upenn.edu/pennnews/article.php?id=925&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/p>

<p>You should also defintitely apply to Questbridge <a href="http://www.questbridge.org/%5B/url%5D"&gt;http://www.questbridge.org/&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/p>

<p>their partner schools include (all which give great need based FA anyway):</p>

<p>Amherst, Bowdoin, Williams, Swarthmore, Pomona, columbia, Wheaton, rice, scripts, Oberlin, Stanford, Princeton, Grinnell & Wellesley </p>

<p>good luck to you</p>

19

<p>Thank you both, merlinjones and sybbie719!</p>

<p>merlinjones, thanks for the links. Currently, I'm somewhat torn between Baylor and Trinity (San Antonio) as my "smaller in size" safety schools. I'll look more into them in order to really decide - perhaps I'll apply to both.</p>

<p>sybbie719, thanks for all those info and links! They're really, really helpful. And I will definitely look into the Questbridge schools (as somebody else also suggested). =)</p>

20

<p>University of Rochester is generous with merit aid and good for science.</p>