<p>My son has been accepted at these three great programs, but is undecided about which to choose. He's an intended physics major. Can anyone provide some insight about the pros and cons of the honors programs at these schools, and which might be the best choice?</p>
<p>Son graduated with physics degree from Schreyers. Got a great education, had two REU’s and an internship, name on publication early sophomore year. Got into most grad programs he applied to. Research as a freshman. AP credit allowed him to double major in engineering. </p>
<p>positives: smaller honors classes, great and ample research experience, one on one advising with ability to get into any classes he wanted. Honors dorms and early registration. Honors college is a nice base for friendships. Lots of VERY smart, hard working kids here. Happy Valley. Very few T.A.'s. Requires a thesis. (hard work but essential for grad school apps)</p>
<p>Negatives: Lots of kids having lots of parties. Internships for the summer would not be anywhere near state college. Son was lucky to get internship near where we lived so he could commute.</p>
<p>baywood- from your other posts I saw that because of scholarship MSU is half the price of the other two options. You wrote: MSU would be $12,000/yr, Penn State about 25,000 and Maryland about $28,000. So the question you should really be asking yourself is whether Penn State Schreyers is worth twice the cost of MSU. 
You say that your son is undecided- I assume that means he does not have a strong preference between the three schools. In such case, I think it is an easy choice: pick MSU.</p>
<p>pamom59, right, MSU would be half the price for us. But are they equal experiences? He’s attracted towards Penn State because it’s closer, there seem to be more honors classes with smaller student/teacher ratios than MSU, and around here it has more “prestige.” Those are things we can weigh. But are there other factors to also weigh? It’s easy for a large university to have an honors college, but Schreyers’ seems to be exceptional (or at least that’s the hype).</p>
<p>Well I don’t really know anything about MSU’s honors program and how it compares to Penn State honors. Yeah, I’ve heard the hype about Penn State Schreyers but honestly (and I’m in state from PA- Philly area) I don’t know that it really carries the kind of “prestige” factor that say, a degree from UPenn would…most people around here think of Penn State as the rah-rah college experience (think: “We are …Penn State!”) rather than as an intellectual mecca. Is it worth twice the price? That’s what you have to ask yourself.</p>
<p>Have you visited all three yet?</p>
<p>My information may be outdated. UMD used to have the most active Physics Dept of the three. PSU comes close next. MSU was not very active. You could go on line and check out each department, number of faculty, areas of research…</p>
<p>Is the in-state cost for PSU Schreyer as much as $25,000?</p>
<p>In state for PSU will be about 28-29 next year, and Schreyers gives $4000 off that.</p>
<p>We’ve visited PSU and MSU, and I’m an MD alum (back when there were only 23 states, so we’ll go back).</p>
<p>I’ve always been skeptical about the value of a visit - your tour guide is great or a nerd, your hamburger is bad, whatever, the prof is boring, it’s not a representative perspective (of course, neither are CC’s poster’s opinions). </p>
<p>MSU is very spread out, the dorms with honors floors are distant from the classrooms and each other, East Lansing is not Happy Valley, it’s twice as far from home, the honors program is bigger and less selective than Schreyers. These are things which color our son’s (and our) impressions of the “fit” of the school. </p>
<p>So we’re digging into any concrete differences between the programs. </p>
<p>Igloo, I’ve looked at rankings of the physics grad departments, and your recollections are probably still more or less accurate. The importance of that factor to undergrads, however, is unclear.</p>
<p>The best chance for a visit to provide value is to send DS for an overnight visit without any parents. They will be forced to find their way and interact with people on campus. The pressure of being queried about preferences will be taken away. I doubt “prestige” will mean much when applying to grad school. DS will need to get good grades and build the right resume. The differences in the schools will be his peers. I am guessing the honors students at all 3 schools have made academics a priority, and will make fine colleagues.<br>
Is PSU or UM worth the price of 2 new cars? If he is pumped about attending a particular school, and genuinely bummed about attending the others for the right reasons, and money won’t significantly affect the family finances, then maybe yes. Congratulations to your DS for applying and creating 3 good options. Getting into many unaffordable prestige schools that are unaffordable are not options.</p>
<p>Research experience is important even on the undergraduate level imo. Also an active department is likely to have a vibrant physics majors. I looked into PSU physics department. They have a good sized student/faculty body. Students are successful in competing for outside awards.</p>
<p>baywood- I’ll have to disagree with you about the value of college visits. Based upon my experience college visits are extremely valuable in making a school selection. The issue is, how to make the most of the visit, to get the information you are looking for, and that often entails veering away from the standard “tour” - although I think it is often worthwhile to do the information session/tour just to see how the college presents itself. For instance, when you go to Penn State you will see a short film including much rah rah and when you go around on the tour you everyone will yell “we are…” and the tour groups respond “Penn State.” In contrast when we visitied MD the information session was a bland powerpoint of statistics and not much school spirit was evident on our tour. Penn State and U MD are very different even if they may seem to be equivalent “on paper.” U MD attracts a much more diverse student body vs. Penn State. I believe it is the most popular OOS school for PA residents at the moment. It has a reputation for being more selective than Penn State, at least in the non-honors program. The location is quite different as well, as U MD allows for easy commuting into DC while Penn State is in the middle of nowhere.</p>
<p>If these are the only schools that your S is considering, I think it is quite worthwhile to visit. To make the most of your visit, however, I’d recommend researching some classes to sit in on . I would check out an intro physics class as well as one that is more advanced. Depending on the size of the class, you may be able to just walk in; but if it is a small class, then you should email the professor for permission. With some advance planning, you may also be able to speak with an advisor in the department. If these things are difficult to arrange…well that will also tell yo something about the school.</p>
<p>A visit to the dining hall is also a must–not just to test the food but to people watch. Your S will have definite opinions about how he sees the student body and whether he feels the right “fit.” Do the students walk around in shorts/tees/flip flops? Do they look more dressed up? Are there are mix of skin colors? Any foreign languages being spoken?</p>
<p>It is also very helpful if you can network to find an older student (sophomore or junior) and preferable in the same school/major who will be able to give you a student’s perspective on the school. Sometimes this can be done through your network of adult friends, and sometimes through your son’s network from high school. You hs guidance counselor can probably provide you with a list of students from your HS attending each school. Your S can reach out to them by phone or facebook to get learn about the pros and cons of the school. I suggest using very openended questions to get the most info.</p>
<p>Good luck in the search process. I am sure your son can do well at any of these schools, but it is worth the effort ot research it to make the best choice.</p>
<p>PSU was my sons safety. He actually decided to apply right before the deadline.</p>
<p>He and his dad drove up for a friday visit. He started down College avenue and it was so crowded with people he could barely drive. The entire campus was one huge throng of people. He told his dad there was no way he could ever go to such a packed school.</p>
<p>It wasn’t till much later that we realized that that was actually Blue/White weekend and PSU grew in poplulation that weeekend to be the third largest city in Pa.</p>
<p>He was a top physics student at PSU and was able to get into some top 10 grad programs but not all that he applied to. Grad school admissions is tough and very, very specific.</p>
<p>Are there any particular questions about Schreyer I can help with?</p>
<p>PSUstudent15, how are the Schreyer dorms? I was recently accepted and wanted to know how the housing works. Will I be able to choose between Atherton and Simmons? Which is nicer? Also, what is the workload like for the average/typical honors class?</p>
<p>runner24
My older son graduated from Schreyer in 2009. He was assigned to Atherton and decided to stay all 4 years. I don’t know if he had a choice initially.
His description of honors classes was that it was easier to get a B or C but harder to get an A than regular classes. You couldn’t be anonymous, so the teachers would help make sure that you didn’t do too badly but the classes are harder, so the A is more difficult.</p>
<p>“In state for PSU will be about 28-29 next year, and Schreyers gives $4000 off that.”</p>
<p>My younger son has just been admitted, so he is also considering Schreyer. I didn’t know the price had gone up so much-</p>
<p>@runner 24 The Schreyer dorms are generally nicer than the PSU average (especially so compared to East). Housing is random your first year, unless you apply, which I recommend you do, to the Globe (which is a special SLO for those interested in global engagement). That is housed in the K floor of Simmons and has considerably better dorms/lounges than even the average honors housing.</p>
<p>Coursework varies a lot. On average, there will be more work in math/science classes but it’s hard to put a number on it without taking the student into account (ie someone good at chem can finish a certain assignment in 1-2 hours while someone not as skilled may take upwards of 4 hours). It’s really dependent on the class though- some professors are known for assigning mountains while others are more the “see you come exam time” type.</p>
<p>Some questions:</p>
<p>To stay in Schreyers, the website says one needs to maintain a 3.4 average every semester. Is this difficult to for engineering and science majors? Does any significant percentage of Schreyers students get dismissed from the program?</p>
<p>How many of a Schreyers’ first and second year classes are smaller honors classes, and how many are large classes with the rest of the students. I expect this depends on the student’s major and AP credits, but anything you can say would be helpful.</p>
<p>PSU is such a huge school. Is being in Schreyers really like being in a “small school within a large school” as the claim? Is the faculty interaction more like a small school? Do the Schreyers students really form a close bond within the school? Is one a small fish in a big pond, or the reverse?</p>
<p>Is the Globe really an option for physics majors, or is it mostly for poly sci and the humanities?</p>
<p>The 3.4 is more a litmus test for math/sci majors. Personally, I think the number declaring those majors is way too high (around 1/4 to 1/3 stood up as Pre-Med during orientation) so for some, it may be difficult. But for the people who truly have an interest in the field and are willing to put in the work, they almost always do well. It’s rare to hear of people being dismissed (which takes two semesters of being under 3.4, the first puts you on probation). Yes, people panic during finals time but generally they tend to do better than they think.</p>
<p>I would guess at least 3 to 4 classes a year will be smaller honors classes. Freshman year Schreyer students are highly recommended to take a honors seminar which is guaranteed to be close knit. With the early scheduling advantage, most Schreyer students are able to schedule honors sections for the classes that have them (schedule.psu.edu - look for the honors designation). </p>
<p>The claim about being a “small school within a large school” is definitely true. The honors classes and standing definitely give an edge as far as personal interactions and research opportunities. The Distinguished Faculty Dinners, which I highly recommend, pair 8-12 scholars with a faculty member for a dinner about particular topics (there’s an email sent out with a list) with the added bonus that the dinner is free and often at very nice places. Socially, I like to think of Schreyer as a hill. Either because of SHOtime which groups us according to majors, having classes with the same people, or living with each other, we tend to be pretty tight knit. But, if you like, you can also go down the hill and hang out with the general Penn State community too.</p>
<p>There’s actually a large number of math/sci majors in the Globe so it’d definitely an option for a physics major.</p>
<p>Thanks for your thoughtful reply, PSU. If at least 3-4 classes a year are honors, then most of a freshman’s classes are relatively large (?) non-honors? </p>
<p>Do you know of any Schreyers physics majors who might be willing to answer some specific physics-related questions (perhaps by private email) about best/worst professors, best ways to find research opportunities, which classes to skip via AP credits?</p>