My daughter is trying to decide between focusing on a small liberal arts school like Bowdoin and a school that offers engineering. She loves math, chemistry, bio, computer science, but wonders if she would like engineering better. She also wonders what kind of job she could get with a Bowdoin undergrad degree in science. Thanks!
I am not sure how Bowdoin ranks in the sciences, but their liberal arts programs are very strong - or at least highly ranked. They are also very left-leaning. My niece’s adviser at Bowdoin pushed her to take classes like “American History from a Marxist Perspective” and “Women’s Gender Studies” (or something along those lines) her freshman year. They didn’t even wait for her to get through some core requirements before they started with the indoctrination.
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Bowdoin has a couple partnerships for 3:2 or 4:1 engineering programs with other schools like Columbia if she decided to pursing engineering after starting. She’s end up with two degrees.
I know Bowdoin grads that went to work for NASA, Amazon, major consulting companies, a major hedge fund, etc. They are competitive everywhere.
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Fields such as physics, chemistry, biology, geosciences and mathematics represent core liberal arts disciplines, of course.
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Bowdoin also offers a 2-1-1-1 program with Dartmouth.
Not denying your niece’s experience, but this has not been my experience at all. Not with my D, her friends, or is it something parents discuss on the FB page. Thoughts @homerdog?
For OP, only your D can decide if she wants to preserve an ability to pursue engineering in undergrad…not counting Bowdoin’s 3+2 engineering program where one would pay for 5 years of undergrad for a bachelor’s degree, and have to leave their friends/campus after junior year (so not many students choose this path…at Bowdoin it is one student every few years or so).
Bowdoin science majors go into banking, environmental consulting/other consulting roles, FAANG companies, research jobs, etc…same as from any non-LAC. Bowdoin has a very active and supportive alumni network that actively supports current students.
LACs with engineering include Swat, Lafayette, and Union. Other schools to consider include Bucknell and Lehigh.
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Engineering is typically a fork-in-the-road major, in that you generally need to start in engineering and then transfer to another major if you don’t like it. It may be technically possible to transfer into engineering, but 1) usually on a space-available basis and 2) it often extends the time required to finish the degree.
Ime, the number of students who actually do 3+2 / 2111 programs is a small % of those who start out thinking that they will do it.
Spending some time looking at the actual 4 year plan for an engineering student (lots of colleges post them) can be enlightening. You might also suggest that she look at a materials science program (usually in the SoE). MatSci is at the intersection of all the subjects that you list that she enjoys.
Then have her compare those to what a 4 year plan would look like
as (say) a Chem or CompSci major (anywhere). The comparison might help her discern which is more interesting to her. Fwiw, our physics Collegekid chose the LAC path b/c she wasn’t ready to stop taking other classes - she took everything from French film to Art History to Anthropology while double majoring in Physics and Math. Loved every minute of it, and then went on to do a PhD.
I notice that you didn’t list physics as one of the things she loves, but physics is probably the closest analog for engineering.
This is the easiest part of your post! exactly the same as she would from any other college. What will affect her employment choices most is what she does in college: internships, research, summer jobs, etc.
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Agree with @collegemom3717 that if your child has the chops and the aptitude for engineering, physics checks very similar boxes AND gives you the added flexibility of being highly sought after in business as well as academia. In fact, just about the only thing you can’t do with a physics degree (without further education) is become an engineer.
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One can work in certain engineering jobs with a physics degree.
SPS data here, showing 35% of new physics bachelor’s students in 2015 and 2016 took engineering jobs: Careers Toolbox
See SPS/AIP physics pathways here: https://www.spsnational.org/sites/default/files/sites/default/files/files/sitewide/Career-Options-Poster%202017.pdf
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I’m in the camp that if engineering is on the table, find a school that actually offers engineering. As noted by @Mwfan1921, there are some LACs that do have engineering majors if your child is looking for a small school. There are also schools like Rose Hulman that are small tech focused schools.
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Perhaps she got some rogue advisor but I know dozens of snow do in grads and this doesn’t even remotely describe any of their experiences. It’s certainly not common.
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There are strong LACs that offer engineering - Union, Bucknell, Swarthmore, W&L (not abet verified), etc. and smaller schools more focused like Col School of Mines and Rose Hulman.
She can go to an LAC and study engineering but engineering is a huge academic sequence so it will limit other interests academically.
Or a larger public with Honors College as well. My son is a MECHE major at a large public with minors in math and geography.
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Our son is a math and physics double major at Bowdoin. He’s also taken a good number of government, history, religion and English classes. No indoctrination for him. The whole idea of a liberal arts college is to take a wide range of classes. No one forced him. Also, some of those classes did count towards Bowdoin’s core requirements. Bowdoin doesn’t have many of those and they are super easy to check off - not very specific and dozens of classes to choose from to complete them.
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That’s very helpful. Do you know what your son plans to do after graduation? Thanks so much.
He’s already had three internships including one for NASA and one at an MIT start up that has been hugely funded and is taking off. He took a semester off during Covid so has three semesters left now. He likely has a return offer to the start up but, since he has 18 months until graduation still, he’ll keep options open.
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The usual advice would be to start out as an engineering major and switch out if desired. Much easier than attempting to transfer into engineering.
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There are many schools that are strong in almost all fields, but they are larger than Bowdoin. For example, Northwestern is #16 in engineering, and is highly ranked in the humanities, the arts, journalism, and sciences. It is, however, much larger than Bowdoin with around 8,500 students. On the west coast, Stanford is tops in everything, but has 7,600 students. In the northeast, Princeton (5,300 students) has a #12 engineering school, and is highly ranked in everything. While admissions to these schools is extremely competitive, they are not much harder to get into than Bowdoin.
If she is interested in engineering (or any professional program), she should apply as an engineer. Different departments/colleges at universities have different admissions requirements and levels of competitiveness. In short, it is much harder to get into an engineering program than a liberal arts college at a major university. And once admitted, students can change from a more competitive major to a less demanding major, but not the other way around; a EE can change majors to Englisth Lit, but an English Lit major cannot change majors to engineering.
On a final note, some schools encourage students to explore before declaring a major, and facilitate students having a double major or a minor. Case Western comes to mind, though it is much lower ranked than the schools above. During our tour, the guide was a MechE major, with a minor in Economics.
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merc, Universities park their science programs in different colleges. For example, UofM has their physical science and math departments in their College of Arts and Letters along with English, History, etc., while CMU has their physical science departments in the Mellon College of Science, and their humanities departments in the Dietrich College of Humanities and Social Sciences.
Sounds like a great opportunity (although perhaps not as a first-year student).
Early in the process my kid looked at LAC’s and some of the 3+2 programs. My '22 found that very few student actually complete the engineering portion. It seemed many didn’t want to leave their friends and school as an upperclassman.
My '22 also found that the programs were tough to complete in the time given. One thing was, you had limited choices and at some schools had to worry about getting all your classes or you might have to do another semester. That’s a lot of $$.
The engineering programs my kid looked at started kids out in general engineering then went into specific programs. Even the honors programs did this. I think if you want engineering you have to know that and apply as an engineer so you can complete all courses in 4 years.
In the end, my kid chose another path than engineering prior to starting college. With a couple of excellent engineering options in hand, the liberal arts and STEM combo seemed liked a better choice.
If your child is considering engineering( or STEM) you should also have them look at major universities. The resources and research can be broader and while you can certainly get a job at NASA or anywhere else from Bowdoin (or any school), your kid might find that they want a larger student body. YMMV. My kid knew that a small LAC wasn’t in the cards nor was an engineering degree. I’m grateful that decision was made Senior year of high school.
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