<p>So i'm definitely going to apply to Middlebury but I have some concerns. I know a professor who works there and he said that the science program at Middlebury isn't very good. I'm planning on majoring in Biology. Is there any input from students who are studying science at Middlebury?</p>
<p>Isn’t very good? As compared to what? CalTech? MIT? I might believe it’s not comparable to those two, but it’s one of the best programs out there. It’s got top notch facilities (compared to just about any school). I have to say, I’m really surprised to hear that a Midd professor would feel that way.</p>
<p>
</p>
<p>A good time to ask probing questions would have been while you were engaging your professor friend in the conversation.</p>
<p>Was that professor in the sciences? If not, you could have said “that’s interesting that you say that. Could you introduce me to the chair of the biology department — I’d like to pick his/her brain for a few.” And then follow up.</p>
<p>And once you meet chair, you could ask pointed questions and decide the answer for yourself. And ask chair to introduce you to some current bio majors. And show you around the bio building, labs, etc.</p>
<p>It’s much easier to get a handle on truth vs. fiction when you’re speaking with somebody directly. You had a golden opportunity. Heck, you still have a golden opportunity, since you know this professor. Why not call him or her back, and try it again?</p>
<p>I agree with heyalb’s advice. While it is well known that Middlebury excels in the languages and Humanities, the OP’s post is very much contrary to the research we did prior to S applying and deciding to attend. In fact, tied for 3rd in number of intended majors was the sciences. </p>
<p>The facilities themselves are amazing and seemed very comparative to larger universities. And in this economy, both Amherst and Georgetown have put their science bldg on hold as has Harvard for that matter. Williams isn’t doing anything but maintenance and even some of that is being deferred. With how quickly the sciences evolve, any halting of such investment will ultimately affect the depth and breadth of an education. This is not to suggest that facilities make or break a department’s strength, but it’s not nothing.</p>
<p>I not only encourage you to speak directly to the science department professors at Middlebury, but come back and post to let us know what you find out.</p>
<p>Not sure I understand the comment about Williams. The science facilities there were more or less completely redone around 2000, which was the same time that the science building at Middlebury was completed.</p>
<p>See re Williams</p>
<p><a href=“http://www.williams.edu/resources/sciencecenter/center/HistSci00/notable.html[/url]”>http://www.williams.edu/resources/sciencecenter/center/HistSci00/notable.html</a></p>
<p>and Middlebury</p>
<p><a href=“http://web.middlebury.edu/services/campusmap/text/index.php[/url]”>http://web.middlebury.edu/services/campusmap/text/index.php</a></p>
<p>Only referring to an article I had read some time back - could have been in december - about canceling their program in NY amid other cuts (similar to those made at all of these LAC’s saying they want to trim about 20mil) At the time I just recall there was being some sincere concern regarding deferred maintenance and how even some of that was going to have to be further deferred. Not sure what was on their construction table or how far off the front burner it might be today.</p>
<p>Williams’ New York Program consists mainly of a very nice, but costly townhouse near Grand Central Station where people can stay during internships. It has nothing to do with their science program.</p>
<p>John… I know. I thought I had been clear that the info I had was more a part of a larger article about LAC’s and VARIOUS cuts and holds, not only specific to science or any other major for that matter. I think all of these schools will fight to preserve their educational integrity in all departments. So… then it becomes more a function of the level of support a department currently holds or # of teaching faculty or undergrad research and support to that research. Maybe it’s summer research on campus or elsewhere. I am no science major kind of person, but I do know journalistic research. </p>
<p>Obviously, you can make statistics and numbers say just about anything… if 40% of kids pick their noses, there are 60% who do not… semantics really. But when we (parents) were comparing schools way back when, it was this article that led me to conclude that the magic number for cuts was 20 million at MOST top tier LACs. I also loosely connected the dots regarding where cuts were going to have to come from when Williams had a high percentage deferred maintenance projects on their laps taking precedent. Obviously, some of those need doing now or one risks bigger problems down the road. It’s also true, however, that Williams has a considerably larger endowment (even with the economic slump) than Middlebury. Amherst’s endowment issues is another story that only Interesteddad can help me understand. The point is… </p>
<p>You don’t talk to a humanities major about the science department and vice versa. Here’s what I know for sure:</p>
<p>Son’s AP Bio teacher was a professor at Williams prior to her relocating here to raise a family and teach HS. I credit (or blame) her with totally inspiring my son to pursue either biochem or molecular bio as a major. She is brilliant, no doubt. She and S had not a lot, but definitely a few, conversations and she never asked why not Williams. Not that this says anything because he hadn’t asked. But when it came down to his three finalists, she pushed for Middlebury saying it was a great fit for him. Now certainly this was bigger than any one department (especially since kids often change their majors) and frankly, of his final schools, Midd had the strongest programs across more than one major that allowed both his dad and I to feel good about his education even if he changes his mind along the way.</p>
<p>I again suggest the OP talk to the professors and to please let us know what he finds out!</p>
<p>See attached for comments by Williams’ departing president on deferred maintenance as well as other budget cuts. I think he suggests that the college can do this for a couple of years because the physical plant (including science facilities) are in excellent shape due to past attention and efforts.</p>
<p>[Williams</a> College :: Office of the President - Letters from the President and Trustees](<a href=“http://www.williams.edu/admin/president/letters/090126_economy.php]Williams”>http://www.williams.edu/admin/president/letters/090126_economy.php)</p>
<p>[Williams</a> College :: Office of the President - Letters from the President and Trustees](<a href=“http://www.williams.edu/admin/president/letters/090420_budget.php]Williams”>http://www.williams.edu/admin/president/letters/090420_budget.php)</p>
<p>Midwestern… </p>
<p>It seems to me that on a Middlebury board, you shouldn’t expect to see a lot of “go Williams” comments. I thought I had been really quite fair to say my S’s teacher was a professor at Williams, was brilliant and inspired my son to go into the sciences. That I said their endowment was larger than Middlebury’s was also quite fair. I also made a blanket statement about several LAC’s target budget reduction numbers.</p>
<p>However, and while it may seem snarky, it is coming into focus for me that if I don’t say that “Williams hasn’t an issue in the world, it’s academics are far superior to any and all others, and please OP, don’t even bother checking or talking to anyone else about your intended science major because here, on the Middlebury forum, I believe Williams to be superior,” you will insist on “proving” something that isn’t really at issue.</p>
<p>But I will point out two things from your posted links.<br>
- Jan letter says cuts of 10Mil. April math says it’s closer to 20 (as I said).
- While I had said I thought Williams only had deferred maintenance. The library was shelved. So, I stand corrected.</p>
<p>Modadunn,</p>
<p>You are correct that I would not expect to see “go Williams” comments on a Middlebury board. I was also surprised to see comments about Williams on a Middlebury board that was not originally intended to compare Middlebury’s program to overlap schools. When you introduced a comparison and included comments about Williams that I thought were misleading, I thought I would offer a counterpoint. If you had for instance only stated that Middlebury’s science center had the biggest window in Vermont and likely a bigger one than any at the Williams science center, there would have been nothing to respond to. However, your comment at #4 at least hints that Middlebury’s facilities are state of the art and that Williams are not, when in fact both are about 10 years old. Likewise, your comment at #8 suggests that Williams has some needed maintenance that it is deferring to save money, when in fact, consistent statements from Williams indicate that they can achieve some budget savings by deferring some maintenance for a couple of years given that that the physical plant of the school is in great shape.</p>
<p>I visited Middlebury with my son and found the science center to be an amazing facility along with the rest of the campus. I think both Williams and Middlebury face significant economic challenges in the next few years, but less at Williams than Middlebury simply due to the greater economic resources the former already has in hand. That said, if my son had chose Middlebury (assuming they would have chosen him back), I would have been extremely pleased with that choice as well.</p>
<p>Going back to the original comment, the Midd science programs are extremely strong. Classes are challenging (one of the courses is affectionately referred to as “Cell Hell”), fast-paced, time-consuming (especially the accompanying lab courses), but very worthwhile in terms of preparing students for MCAT/GRE. I would say the most important thing you need to do to set yourself apart and get the most out of the science program is to take the initiative to join a lab and partake in an independent research project/thesis effort. Undergraduate research experience is ESSENTIAL for standing out in a job/grad applicant pool and since there are limited labs due to the small size of Midd in general, start EARLY on getting to know professors in your major department and hinting at your interest in joining their lab (they usually take students in their junior year, however you never know when a spot may open up). The students with the MOST initiative and the most fight in them are the ones who get those limited spots–even if one professor says no, move on to another and don’t give up (I speak from experience 
In my opinion, there was no bio course that was “an easy A” and no professors that were easier graders than others—all were extremely strong and extremely tough. Be prepared to work your tail off, and don’t get yourself down when you compare your GPA to your friends’ majoring in the humanities…there is no grade inflation but you have the most well-rounded, intensive undergraduate science education at your fingertips so embrace it. Students who look beyond grades and soak everything up are the ones who go far. Also, try to TA once you reach the higher level courses…GREAT experience, especially if you plan to attend grad school where you’ll most likely be required to TA. When I applied for jobs, employers were dumbfounded by the array of techniques I had been exposed to as an undergraduate, and I received amazing job offers early into my senior year. While attending my grad school interviews this past February, certain members of the admissions committees were talking about how they particularly seek out liberal arts science majors due to their intensive undergrad research experience that is harder to attain in the larger universities and is absolutely invaluable in surviving graduate school. Be ready to work hard and become an incredible scientist with your fabulous Middlebury education!</p>
<p>I cannot even begin to tell you how much my daughter has been blessed with chemistry teachers who are willing to help her at Midd. she was hired to work in a lab after her first semester (she took the Honors chemistry class). She could have worked there the following summer (one of her freshman friends did), but she had another commitment. When she said she wanted to work the following summer, her teacher hooked her up with another professor who had money for research, as well as helped her apply for a couple of research grants. When she looked at the science program at Williams (which are obviously great), then Amherst, she actually ruled out Amherst because their science facilities were so dated and the building was on the list for renovation. she didn’t want to spend her four years doing research in temporary digs. Her classes at Midd have been a challenge, but everyone is willing to help. The teachers have extensive office hours that are used by many students. The students all form study groups, and many meet at BiHall. There is no sense of competition at the school, but more one of complete cooperation. My youngest daughter has been so impressed, she will be attending Midd next fall.</p>
<p>Resurrecting this thread instead of making a new one simply by virtue of the title. However, in looking at some of the updates of Middlebury’s strategic Plan, I came upon this:</p>
<p>
</p>
<p>My take is that they recognized that the school might not be as well known for its outstanding sciences but it is a matter of PR and not quality of program or facilities. Upcoming in a week or so is the symposium of student research. Not sure how that might fit into accepted student days, but it would be interesting to get a glimpse of what the Midd undergraduate is up to in the realm of science.</p>
<p>Isn’t Bio the third most popular major at Midd? Arcadia, where are you?</p>
<p>Social sciences 28%
Foreign Languages and Lit 10%
Area and ethnic studies 10%
Performing arts 9%
English 8%
Psychology 5%
History 5%
Biological sciences 5%</p>
<p>Crew… </p>
<p>Just curious, where did you get those numbers? Just looking at them, it seems plausible considering Econ is a social science (which I believe is the most popular major). But I have to say the performing arts seems a little higher than I would have thought. Is this for a specific graduation year or the school as a whole. I do think I recall reading Bio being the third most popular major, but that might have been by a certain class OR by this year’s entering class as what they THOUGHT they wanted to study (which we all know at least a few will change their mind).</p>
<p>
</p>
<p>The percentages are degrees conferred between July 1, 2008 and June 30, 2009
Students with one degree but a double major will be represented twice.</p>
<p><a href=“http://www.middlebury.edu/media/view/55121/original/CDS2009_2010.pdf[/url]”>http://www.middlebury.edu/media/view/55121/original/CDS2009_2010.pdf</a></p>
<p>You’re welcome ;)</p>
<p>Crew Dad is not so far off, though biology and biological sciences is closer to 7% — according to the fall 2009 data. See: <a href=“http://www.middlebury.edu/media/view/56041/original/Fall_majors-all.pdf[/url]”>http://www.middlebury.edu/media/view/56041/original/Fall_majors-all.pdf</a></p>
<p>NorthCountryCat - you remind me of my own calico… just when you thnk the room is quiet she’s really hiding underneath the bed skirt ready to pop out and surprise you. Her timing is always impeccable. :)</p>
<p>Although it is kinda weird that CrewDad’s link gives a 9% to performing arts and yours gives it a 4.4%. Not that it even matters per say, but maybe I missed something. Totally likely.</p>
<p>I do have to say though as a plug for all departments… S has had classes in sciences, studio arts and the classics (among others) and to hear him talk about any of them? Pig in mud. Totally happy. Works his butt off, time is always in short supply, but he loves his Professors and equally important, his fellow students (hugely important on discussion days!). I am completely jealous.</p>