@Mastadon - Interesting. Clark has since fallen off for different reasons, but I’m honestly surprised by those statistics. Perhaps we should have dug a little deeper.
In the interest of reassuring you, @porcupine98, when normalized for enrollment, the Clark/Wooster data for the physical sciences appear as a fairly similar 691/628.
Thanks, @merc81
You have already applied to thirteen schools and you want a fourteenth? Why bother? Save the time and money and figure out which of your top thirteen are seriously under consideration. I would think that if you can narrow down that list to three or four it would make more sense then finding the fourteenth best school for your list. Just my humble opinion but I seriously doubt that you will need a fourteenth choice to make this decision. Best of luck to you.
@beenthereanddone Not the question I asked, and it was not about randomly “adding a fourteenth school.” It was about determining whether, if none of the reaches came through, and choices were limited come April, there would be any regrets about having left off one viable admit that had been a strong contender. (As indicated further up the discussion, we decided the answer was no.)
There are lots of reasons people pose questions the way they do, and my choice to post this question OUT of context was quite intentional. I wanted people’s opinions about the schools themselves, not our particular situation. I very much appreciate those who have provided direct input to the question posed. Those answers were helpful to me, and will, I hope, be helpful to others looking at those same schools, in whatever context is relevant for them.
The three are peer schools academically. The decision should come down to cost and which your child likes best.
Muhlenberg has that very Pennsylvania work hard, play hard feel tempered by the fact the theatre presence is very large. It has a lot of nice attributes and a very nice campus. The food is also excellent.
Clark is a nice school too but it is not as well rounded academically, socially and doesn’t have an athletic culture the way Muhlenberg does.
Of the two, Muhlenberg is more compelling all things considered.
I don’t find comparing the minutiae of the physics departments to be very valuable in this case. Your child still has to like studying and living there.
Yup, @ScaredNJDad1 all those factors, and others, came into play in the final decision. (And I concur with your observations.)
I was intentionally asking a very targeted question about an area I did NOT understand as well, to see to what extent, if at all, it would tip the balance. For me, the responses were quite valuable, both in deciding about these schools and also for informing any future decisions we might have to make.
@porcupine98 Not gonna lie I stalked your old threads after reading this one this morning. You raised many many excellent questions in them. I appreciate your hunt for information to accurately complete your kiddo’s college admission race.
So now that the final days of the application windows are upon us…what was the final list? and what schools, if any, did your kiddo apply to EA and have you heard any results? (As I checked to see if you have posted any results over in the Class of 2020 acceptance thread)
My own D16 was recently accepted at Wooster and is headed there this weekend for a visit.
I am so interested to see where all these kids end up.
I am glad you posted this thread OP. Makes me feel even better that my D has been accepted at Clark, even though it is her safety school. We talked about Wooster briefly, but decided against because she liked Clark as a safety, and it has a great rep for Psych, which she is interested in. Also, not to be a downer, but I have heard things about the area that Wooster is in which put me off a bit. Not that Clark is in a splendid area either. As for Muhlenberg, she will be glad to hear that is has a more sporty culture, as she is not really into that at all. And again, she felt happy with Clark as a safety. Good luck to your son!
@lindagraf I agree that Clark is a great option. We liked it when we visited and know at least one kid from our area who LOVED it. I was untroubled by either its neighborhood or Wooster’s, but understand why some might be. It’s just a matter of assembling the puzzle pieces for each particular kid and seen what clicks into place.
@labegg I’m amused to be deemed stalkable. It’s a tricky balance trying to exchange useful and specific information and yet preserve some modicum of one’s kid’s privacy (and one’s own, should the kid start stalking too) and I’m never sure I’m really hitting the right balance. This thread’s not really the place for a that whole story anyway, but I’ll either revisit the list elsewhere or find a way to fill you in. Not a lot of surprises, really, but I will say yes, kid is also in EA to Wooster and even if other options don’t come through and that ends up being the final choice, I’ll feel pretty good about things. We really liked it when we visited and will be curious to hear how your visit goes.
@merc81 - Be careful, your reasoning does not hold for capital equipment where the notion of “critical mass” comes into play. Capital equipment is more important for research in the hard sciences than other liberal arts disciplines because it tends to make up a larger portion of the research budget…
Also, Clark has more graduating Physics majors than Chem majors, (13 vs.9) which is unusual. Wooster has 4 times as many Chem majors (5 vs. 20). Interestingly, Muhlenberg has a similar ratio as Clark (10 vs. 7).
@scarednjdad1- “well rounded” is a somewhat subjective term.
Based on graduation data, Muhlenberg has a 3x larger pool of business majors, a 2x larger pool of journalism majors and a 5x larger pool of drama majors.
Clark has a 2x larger pool of history majors, a 2x larger pool of environmental science majors, and a 2x larger pool of social science majors.
Muhlenberg has a football team, Clark does not. Both are ranked toward the bottom of division 3 with regards to the Directors Cup.
Clark has small Phd/research programs, Muhlenberg does not. Muhlenberg appears to have smaller class sizes on average, but that will not matter much in physics where the pool of majors is so small.
Clark is a top feeder school for the Peace Corps and has a strong community service orientation.
All in all, I would say that Clark’s culture probably skews more toward the “academic” side and Muhlenberg skews more toward the Pre-Professional/Athletic side, which would be consistent with your perception of a more competitive culture at Muhlenberg.
As far as which is more “balanced” - that is a matter of taste.
From my experience, Clark tends not to attract the “more athletic types”. The one hard-core athlete that I know that went there ended up transferring out. The others were happy. The only person I know who went to Muhlenberg was a hard core athlete - I have not heard back how he likes it.
Not everyone is comfortable with the area around Clark (it depends on your background), but the area is improving. The general feeling among my cohort is that if Clark had a better location, it would be much more selective.
The average net price of Clark is about $10K less than Muhlenberg and they have the “fifth year free” program for getting a Masters degree.
For the right type of person, Clark represents a very compelling value.
@Mastadon: I’m aware of concepts related to thresholds, but cannot include a discussion of them with every post to which they might pertain. In any event, the general concept has little value unless it can be converted to tangible factors. Without the benefit of further analysis, diminishing returns could just as easily be said to apply. That said, your comments on these schools include some interesting statistics.
Below are figures on PhDs earned in the physical sciences by graduates of these 3 colleges from 2005-2014.
55 … College of Wooster
20 … Muhlenberg
14 … Clark
Source: https://ncsesdata.nsf.gov/webcaspar/OlapBuilder
That’s a fairly big difference, although it’s not entirely clear what it signifies.
Wooster may be attracting a different kind of student than the other 2 schools (for whatever reason).
More physics majors at Muhlenberg and Clark may be choosing to attend med school.
Or, Wooster may be attracting similar students but doing a better job at motivating and preparing them for grad school.
Here is Wooster’s profile on the “Colleges That Change Lives” site:
http://ctcl.org/college-of-wooster/
Wooster’s apparent emphasis on research opportunities and independent study may help account for its higher PhD production.