<p>I read that around only 14% of Williams students major in the sciences. That kind of concerned me...so I was wondering, are the sciences at Williams a strong department, or should I look elsewhere?? I want to major in Biology or Chemistry...and possibly Anthropology (we'll see). I love Williams for the tight-knit community, athletic component, and the outdoorsy student body. But I just don't know if it's right for me..</p>
<p>That number is incorrect. Williams has a lot of science majors and its math and sciences are strong offerings. Amherst has few science majors and outdated science facilities.</p>
<p>Here’s the percentage of science, math, and engineering majors relative to total undergrade degrees awarded for the five years from 2003-2007 at selected top LACs, private universities, and public universities. This is from the IPEDS govenment database:</p>
<p>35% – Stanford University
33% – Rice University
31% – Duke University
31% – University of California-Berkeley
30% – Princeton University
30% – Carleton College
29% – Swarthmore College
27% – Columbia University in the City of New York
26% – Grinnell College
26% – University of Michigan-Ann Arbor
26% – Haverford College
26% – Vanderbilt University
25% – University of Chicago
24% – Williams College
23% – Harvard University
23% – Bryn Mawr College
21% – Dartmouth College
20% – University of Virginia-Main Campus
19% – Brown University
18% – Pomona College
17% – Yale University
17% – Davidson College
17% – Bowdoin College
16% – Smith College
16% – Washington and Lee University
15% – College of William and Mary
15% – University of Pennsylvania
15% – Amherst College
14% – Oberlin College
13% – University of North Carolina at Chapel Hill
12% – Wesleyan University
12% – Claremont McKenna College
12% – Wellesley College
11% – Emory University
11% – Middlebury College
11% – Vassar College</p>
<p>Thanks for the data!
Could you elaborate on Amherst’s outdated facilities please?</p>
<p>Most of the top LACs have been replacing science centers built in the 1960s that were reaching the end of their life cycles. Williams, Swarthmore, Grinnell, I’d have to go down the list. </p>
<p>It’s a challenging project because, if you just tear down the old one, there’s no where to move the science to during construction, so a common approach is to build a new science complex around the old one, move people into the new parts, and then gut and renovate the old buildings. Science centers are expensive. Figure $50 milllion to $100 million for a liberal arts college science center project.</p>
<p>Anyway, Amherst had not replaced their old Merrill Science Center when the market crashed. They have stated that is is obsolete. They may procede with the project, but there is nothing even started yet. No designs. It’ll be a few years at the earliest before they could actually break ground. Five for Six years before it could be done at the earliest.</p>
<p>wow, thats good to know! thanks for all the information!! :)</p>
<p>Williams and Swarthmore are the top LACs in the northeast for science and math. They have lots of science/math majors, lots of science/math faculty, and well-funded modern facilities. I suspect that even the non-science types, like the econ majors, are more likely to lean towards the quantitative side than at most other LACs.</p>
<p>More on Amherst’s science facilities [url=<a href=“http://amherststudent.amherst.edu/current/news/view.php?year=2008-2009&issue=10§ion=news&article=02]here[/url”>http://amherststudent.amherst.edu/current/news/view.php?year=2008-2009&issue=10§ion=news&article=02]here[/url</a>]; unfortunately, the proposed renovations have been further delayed since that story was written, due to budget problems. It seems possible that science facilities may have been a lower priority at Amherst, simply because science enrollments are significantly lower there. Amherst has an “open curriculum”, and in practice, a large proportion of Amherst students avoid science and math classes entirely.</p>
<p>I’m surprised Washington University in St Louis isn’t on the list. I wonder if WashU is still growing, so not as big back in 2003, or if they don’t have much math & engineering, just sciences. What is IPEDS? Is this info available just for sciences too?</p>
<p>WUSTL does have a relatively high proportion of math, science, and engineering majors, probably around 30%. It just wasn’t one of the schools that happened to be chosen for comparison in the post above.</p>
<p>So, I should assume there are many other schools, not listed in the list above, that place a heavy emphasis in Science/Math/Engineering? That’s a good thing. There are so many schools I wanted to see listed: Johns Hopkins, Northwestern, G’town among many others. Where did this list come from and is it accurate to list some schools that have a large proportion of students in this field and not others?</p>
<p>
</p>
<p>According to Post #2 above, the data shown came from IPEDS, a government database. For more information, try entering “IPEDS” into Google. Unfortunately, many people find the IPEDS database difficult to use, although the “College Navigator” application seems to work OK. As an alternative, many schools post a “Common Data Set”, which will include data on degrees granted in Section J.</p>
<p>
According to Post #2 above, the list covered “selected” schools. There was no claim that the list was comprehensive.</p>
<p>Tried to do my own search using IPEDS, unsuccessfully. So, I appreciate seeing the list above.</p>
<p>It’s interesting to find the same people writing here as on the Amherst discussion thread. I think a few of you are showing unfair and unwarranted bias…interesteddad, in particular, seems to spend significant time dissing Amherst. Don’t believe everything you read here; always do your own investigating…</p>
<p>The new president of Williams is a physicist. I would expect sciences at Williams, already far stronger than most LACs, to only get better over the next few years.</p>
<p>I hope so.</p>
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<p>actually, up until January, it was just the opposite, interesteddad couldn’t say enough good things about Amherst, Tony Marx and the wonderful job they were doing steering Amherst; it was Williams that was the constant object of his opprobrium. But, that was before news accounts of how complicated Amherst’s financial condition really was. Apparently, the one thing Interesteddad disapproves of more than the lingering legacy of an all-male college, is the lingering legacy of an all-male college living on a strict allowance. :)</p>
<p>I’ve never been that wild about Tony Marx. </p>
<p>Amherst was in terrific financial shape a year ago. That was before they revealed the $503 million in cash call commitments and before they borrowed an additional $150 million. Of the five top endowment liberal arts colleges, Amherst is in, by far, the biggest financial jam. They are being forced to make serious cuts in the quality of their undergrad program most specfically by increasing enrollment by 200 students with no increase in faculty size - much more severe cuts than Williams or Swarthmore are making. </p>
<p>I don’t have any beef with Amherst. I thinks it’s a fine school. The current situation is what it is. Is Amherst going out of business? No, of course not. Is Amherst next year going to be less than Amherst last year? Yes. No question. They are making $48 million in cuts over three years with more still to come on top of that.</p>
<p>
The individual who started this thread specifically asked about science enrollments, and then about the quality of science facilities. The reality is that northeastern LACs do differ significantly in these regards. </p>
<p>It’s not “unfair” or “biased” to acknowledge such differences (especially in response to direct questions), if they do in fact exist. </p>
<p>Granted, the number of math/science majors or the quality of the math/science facilities do not automatically define the best choices for prospective math/science majors. However, these are factors that are worth considering in the overall college selection process.</p>
<p>What I want to know, is do the 3 of you-interested, Corbett, and JohnWes have jobs, or what? I am learning a lot from you, but 8,000 posts? Do you have several sets of triplets, or are you just obsessed?</p>
<p>This is my job. Grateful students, parents, faculty, and college administrators donate voluntarily and generously to my PayPal account to ensure that I keep posting here on a regular basis. Details upon request.</p>
<p>Aha. Are you from Nigeria? You seem to either work very late, or be in another time zone…I do count myself among the grateful, but I don’t know about the paypal thing.</p>