<p>Say someone had perfect SAT 1, perfect ACT, perfect math 2 SAT II, 4.0 GPA with 5s on Calc BC, 1st class rank, etc...</p>
<p>but never did math team, science Olympiad, etc.</p>
<p>Instead, they devoted themselves more to sports (two sport varsity captain). </p>
<p>This is obviously a CHOICE, choosing sports over math team, and Im worried that would not sit well with the Caltech admissions what do you think? Is it worth applying knowing that I have basically NO math/science ECs?</p>
<p>If you have no math/science ECs why do you want to apply to tech? No crime to be passionate about sports.</p>
<p>I really like math/engineering, but I didn’t really realize it was something that you could DO for a living until very recently… I did state-level competitions in middle school, and had similar aspirations as a child but stopped after I had to choose between that and sports.</p>
<p>I feel passionate about math, and I think Caltech would be a place where I could learn all the things I don’t know about it… like, you can’t really know what you can do with something until you have a basic knowledge of the field – past high school Calculus level, obviously.</p>
<p>See, that’s the problem. I think the Caltech admissions will look at my App and, like you, understandably say, “She’s not really interested in Caltech” because of my lacking ECs. I feel the passion I know I need for Caltech but it’s hard to prove I feel that way with almost no experience in the field beyond that which any high-schooler could get!</p>
<p>OP- You are devoted to 2 sports and you show passion for them by making varsity team for both. If you are as passionate for math/science then why no EC in either subject? You are at least aware that it will be difficult for you to demonstrate passion for math/science other than saying “I feel passionate…” Unfortunately, tech wants students who display an above average interest in math/science.</p>
<p>So you would say don’t apply? 
I guess I was hoping my test scores would make up for no demonstrated interest. That stinks. Thank you</p>
<p>pualalala-Please apply. You never know. Your essays may be able to convey your passion. Leave no stone unturned when looking for the college of your dreams.</p>
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<p>I understand if Caltech would be more convinced by math/science ECs existing, but to be perfectly honest (as I’ve posted before), I myself didn’t do anything organized in terms of math/science ECs in high school, and I’m quite, quite certain I display a lot of interest in mathematics. Everything I did was informal. </p>
<p>Now, to the OP, while I can’t comment how Caltech would have perceived my profile, I do know a friend who is into electrical engineering, who does a lot of work with EE stuff on his own time, and had been doing stuff since he was 10. He just really liked that stuff. He had very high test scores, was a very good student (though didn’t pad his GPA or anything) and didn’t make it into Caltech, while others from his school did. I think one of the key things was he didn’t do anything organized or highly documented, because he’s had more experience with EE than anyone else his age that I know. He’s a pretty good writer, but who knows what his essays said. </p>
<p>This individual ultimately ended up at school with me at Berkeley, and is doing swell. So keep all your options open, but do apply to Caltech and try to make your case as best heard as you can in your essays. I know someone else with not very much in terms of math/science involvement out of school, with very high grades and test scores, and a little more of an application whore, from same school as aforementioned individual who got accepted to Caltech – kind of a waste, because he declined the offer, almost predictably. </p>
<p>There are lots of great schools for math/science/engineering that you should be careful to apply to, given many will take you just for your good stats. However, whether they’ll have the environment you’re looking for is another story. Also look into Harvey Mudd – may or may not be for you.</p>
<p>Certainly look into schools like Berkeley and UMichigan – very good for both math and engineering, and public schools will tend to accept at a very high rate students with perfect SATs, 4.0 GPA and first rank in their classes. But with such great stats, definitely don’t give up on Caltech without giving your essays serious thought and effort, and actually sending in your application.</p>
<p>well if you ARE interested in math and science you should definitely apply to tech regardless of whether you COME OFF as interested.</p>
<p>good luck.</p>
<p>Paula,</p>
<p>Batllo is nothing more than a bullyish killjoy. Look at all of his post and you will see that, if up to him, nobody would get into any college.</p>
<p>My suggestion would be to apply to the schools of your choice and the application process will work itself into a fine fit for you and a university.</p>
<p>Here was my scenario:
Near perfect ACT and SATIIs (perfect in math/science sections for those). Perfect in all AP tests, with two sciences junior and senior year each. Arguably the hardest math/science schedule in my school for all four years (tied with some other guy, I guess). Straight As in math and science courses throughout high school (no 4.0, but close, due to humanities). And I had some math/science ECs: tutored math (volunteer and for money) and did science olympiad (national silver medalist). I got waitlisted :(. And, in my opinion, it was because I wasn’t “passionate” enough about math and science. I put passionate in quotation marks because I am passionate, but my passion manifests itself in reading sciency articles, doing college level SO study for nationals, helping students with their math/science woes, and doing AIME problems for fun. Whereas at many schools my math/science ECs would be over-par, at Caltech they were nothing special. I didn’t wire my house or do any of that application stuff that Caltech seems to love. </p>
<p>Apply, but definitely do not count on an acceptance.</p>
<p>It seems that while it’s not a chronic epidemic or anything, there are a few people like you Senior0091. I wonder what Caltech could do to better detect people with passion in math/science, who don’t do something organized outside of school to show it. After all, a lot of such people like silently reading about stuff interesting to them in the background, and really like math and science. </p>
<p>I don’t know what Caltech would think of me, but I rather was the same kind of student as Senior0091 from what it sounds.</p>
<p>I think that they really want to see the application of said passion. I wonder how many people got in without research or Intel or whatever else. I guess it makes sense. Would you rather have a very high caliber student that is likely to have a science passion but would, later in life, not contribute to the science community (and end up in IBanking or whatever) or a slightly less caliber student (still very strong, though) that is likely to go into the science community in adulthood and contribute to it? I’m not saying I’m the “very high caliber” student or anything, but I definitely can not imagine myself being a practicing scientist, researcher, engineer, etc. Maybe they picked up on that.</p>
<p>The issue I have is not that they want students who are passionate about math and science and who want to apply that passion to their lives, but that they expect to see it as early as high school. I’ve always viewed high school as a time to experiment with a broad range of interests of activities. I love math and science, but I also love art, the classics, music, literature, philosophy, a number of other artistic and academic disciplines. As a result, I have dedicated a lot of my time to interests other than math and science. I always thought that that was a good thing – there are other valuable things in the world besides math and science, after all! But now I feel like the fact that I didn’t choose my major in 8th grade and plan my high school life around that is hurting me. The fact that one hasn’t dedicated the majority of one’s time to a specific field in high school does not mean that that person can’t specialize in that field later in life and make significant contributions to it. I think colleges should focus on interest and potential more so than full-fledged passion – if you have fully-developed and applied passion that early, that’s great, but I don’t think there’s anything wrong if you don’t.</p>
<p>Perhaps I’m distorting what colleges are looking for, but that’s how I’m feeling right now.</p>
<p>^Agreed completely.</p>
<p>I totally agree that wanting students who are passionate about math and science is a bad way to find good well-rounded students.</p>
<p>Caltech isn’t looking for well-rounded students, though. We want people who primarily are going to focus on math, science, and/or engineering. This isn’t the right school for someone who is still exploring their interests because there isn’t as much opportunity to explore other interests here. By limiting the field to people who are already passionate about math and science, admissions is doing you a huge, huge favor. If math, science, and/or engineering is not your true passion odds are you won’t be happy here.</p>
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<p>I’ve found the most intelligent and talented people tend to have multiple passions. They’re able to take skills learned from one aspect of their life and successfully apply it to other tasks they encounter. Don’t you think a marathon runner would be well suited to performing twelve hour long experiments or other tedious experimental procedures? Could someone involved in an offbeat hobby be the person that comes up with a new application for the technology they’re working on?</p>
<p>Edit: I should also add that I feel just because you don’t like Caltech your true passion isn’t in science. I think Caltech practices a very specific brand of science which isn’t quite everyone’s cup of tea.</p>
<p>RacinReaver, your post address points that really have nothing to do with what I was talking about.</p>
<p>Let me clarify my previous post first, then I will address your points. If I were to break down my post into points, it would read like this:</p>
<p>1) Caltech wants people who are focused on math, science, or engineering (MSE).
2) If you are not sure what you are passionate about, you may eventually care more about pursuing some passion unrelated to MSE, and if that is the case you will probably not be happy at Caltech because you will find it hard to fully pursue that passion.</p>
<p>It’s totally fine for someone to have multiple passions–I certainly do and I imagine most Caltech students do. For instance, I am very passionate about SCUBA diving–but I can’t dive as much as I’d like to because of school at Caltech. I made a choice to come to college to study electrical engineering–I could have just as easily taken dive lessons and become a dive instructor. Realize though that coming to Caltech means that you’re placing MSE above virtually everything else–and if you’re not really passionate about MSE, passionate enough to sacrifice time that could be spent on other passions, you won’t be happy here. </p>
<p>As for your final point, I totally agree with you that you can enjoy MSE without enjoying Caltech. That’s not my point. My point is that you can’t enjoy Caltech without enjoying MSE.</p>
<p>What I was addressing is the seeming emphasis that some people on this board seem to put towards all of your ECs being directed at MSE activities. I was really involved at my high school doing tons of MSE types of things, but I enjoyed clubs like Model UN/Congress and Yearbook just as much as the technical ones since it let me meet different people and have another way of relaxing.</p>
<p>I just think it’s silly to think that spending your free time solving math problems is a more scientifically pure pursuit than rebuilding a car when both activities require lots of different important skills required for MSE success.</p>
<p>Fair enough, I just want to be very clear that I agree with you and I am not endorsing the point of view you address. (One of my favorite hobbies is working on cars, and I was in Model UN for three years in high school 
)</p>
<p>Wow, thank you so much for all the responses… I just got back from a camp for my sport and I actually researched Harvey Mudd a little, it looks pretty good but a little less hardcore! Thank you SO much for the feedback, it really helps a lot. I plan to apply to Caltech even though my chances aren’t good, but I think Harvey Mudd or a similar school might be good also. And Harvey Mudd’s also in California, that’s a plus. 
Thank you everyone!</p>