Searching for colleges with a strong orchestra programs open to non-majors

College Search & Selection
1

I wasn’t sure how much information to give, so this got kind of long. Here’s the short version: Son is looking for a college for good students (not amazingly brilliant students) that has a decent chemistry department and a strong orchestra open to non-majors

My son is a junior in high school and just to get it out of the way his GPA should be 3.5 unweighted and 4.5 weighted at the end of this year if his grades come in as expected. He’s a very mellow guy who really didn’t care that much about whether he had A’s or B’s (we’re in a 7-point-scale state).He just took the SAT - cold - and I’m not expecting great scores. He’ll take it again at the end of January and I’m just guessing, but I think he’ll be in the mid 600’s for both the language and math portions. The essay is anyone’s guess. The ACT Plan predicted ACT scores of anywhere between 28-32. Who knows if that prediction means anything. All his classes are honors or AP classes, but except in piano and orchestra, he’s not the best kid in the class. He’s been on the swim team (captain this year) and cross country team since freshman year.

He’d like to study chemistry in college (at least until he switches his major), but he also wants to continue playing viola in the orchestra. He’s a strong player (right now he’s section leader in the local youth symphony) but not interested in competitions. He loves music and he cares about being good, but not about being the best. That being said, he’s already being recruited by a small but highly ranked regional liberal arts college for their orchestra program.

We’ve visited three colleges so far, but only listened to one school’s orchestra rehearsal. We both expected that a college orchestra would be better or at least as good as the youth orchestra he plays in, but it wasn’t. We were both really disappointed because until that point the school seemed like it would be a good fit. On the good side, it’s now clear that any college that would make my son happy has to have a strong orchestra.

I’ve been scouring various college search websites including this one, but all I see are schools that are either conservatory or conservatory like or schools that very often don’t have a viola professor. We live in North Carolina but would go anywhere. Colleges under 2,500 students probably won’t appeal to him - and I know that cuts the number of colleges down significantly.

I don’t mind my son applying to colleges that cost $60,000/year, but unless they offered substantial merit aid, he knows I won’t go for it. Our EFC is $53k.

I appreciate any advice you can offer. Thanks!

2

How much will you pay each year?

When looking at merit, if an award is an exact dollar amount (say $15k per year), be sure to estimate how much costs will rise each year, because that $15k award won’t. And costs you’re seeing now are for current students, so by the time your child is a senior, the school’s tuition, room, and board costs will have risen several times…probably obliterating a $15k award.

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One that comes to mind is RPI - Rensselaer Polytechnic in Troy, NY. They have good science programs and an orchestra that is pretty open to non-majors. My son plays violin in his high school orchestra and loves it & music in general and so continuing his musical activities is important - he is otherwise planning on electrical engineering and computer science. We reached out to RPI & it seems like a possible good fit. And ACT range 27-32. I can give you more info if you can PM me.

4

Have you looked at Furman? Keith Lockhart is an alum.

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Mom2Collegekids, that’s a really good point. I hadn’t really considered how much the cost of attendance would increase each year, but the thought of tuition rising another 15k over four years is unsettling. I’ll keep it in mind to be sure, but I don’t think we’ve really decided on a firm number as to what we’ll pay per year.

CA1543, I had looked at RPI briefly, but I’ll go back and take another look. I’ve looked at so many schools - it’s hard to know which ones deserve more attention which is why I finally decided to post a question. Thanks for the response.

carolinamom2boys, I haven’t looked at Furman, but I will. My son plays at least 15 hours/week between practice, lessons, the two orchestras he plays with and his chamber group. But because he’s just so relaxed about everything, it doesn’t seem like he’d be a good fit for a conservatory environment. Maybe I should post something over in the music major section and ask.

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This question comes up every few months on the Music Major Forum - there are threads addressing it going back to the beginning of College Confidential! You can often check out youtube videos of college orchestras to get a feel. It is not unusual at all for a college orchestra not to be at the high level of a regional youth orchestra. On the other hand, regional youth orchestras, and sometimes community orchestras, usually accept college students as performers - something to keep in mind for schools where its own orchestra is not up to snuff.

(From a quick google search)
http://talk.collegeconfidential.com/music-major/444579-strong-orchestras-at-liberal-arts-schools-p1.html
http://talk.collegeconfidential.com/college-search-selection/1748416-what-colleges-have-good-music-orchestra-programs.html
http://talk.qa.collegeconfidential.com/parents-forum/1727619-music-for-non-music-major-at-merit-aid-liberal-arts-college-p1.html
http://talk.collegeconfidential.com/music-major/984536-orchestra-seats-for-non-majors-clarinet.html
http://talk.collegeconfidential.com/music-major/634244-college-orchestras-p1.html
http://talk.collegeconfidential.com/college-search-selection/1621956-universities-with-strong-orchestras-even-if-non-music-major.html

7

Lawrence in Wisconsin sound smaller than he likes. But does meet his orchestra criteria, I think. $55K per year at the moment. They give merit aid, but he would probably have to bring up his scores to get much.

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Thanks for all the suggestions and links (SpiritManager). I’d already looked through most of those threads already but just kept reading Yale, Rice, Princeton, Stanford… My son doesn’t have the stats to get into schools like that.

I had thought of University of Rochester as a reach, but one of the recent threads mentioned it’s hard for those students to compete with the Eastman students for spots in the orchestra. Good to know beforehand.

I’ve added Vassar to our list which at the moment includes James Madison, Vassar, BU, Penn State, Purdue. The other smaller LACs that have been suggested don’t look like they’d be good matches for other reasons. I guess the kid may have to visit some conservatory-type colleges and have a private lesson where possible. If it’s not unusual for regional youth orchestras to be stronger than college ones, maybe he wouldn’t be out of place at that type of school.

I want him to feel at home both musically and academically. Challenged but not stressed that he’ll never measure up. There’s enough of that in high school. 11 to 13 hour days M-F and then add in homework and practice plus all the orchestra rehearsals on the weekends. It’s relentless.

9

Are you ruling out Bard and Oberlin? Can’t speak for Bard but non-Con students play in the Con orchestra at Oberlin and there is a decent community orchestra as well.

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Vassar will be a reach with his grades/test scores. You say he’s not interested in the LAC’s mentioned in the links. Does that mean Lawrence, Holy Cross, Hamilton, and Skidmore, all of which he’d have a chance at and have good orchestras, I believe? For universities with Schools of Music like James Madison and BU you’ll have to investigate his chances to play in the more challenging orchestra. I think it might not be possible. Also, on the Music Major forum, pinned to the top - read through the many pages about schools with good music programs. Some will allow non-majors into the orchestras, and some won’t - but it might bring up some options you haven’t considered. You might look into Miami Univ., Ohio and Santa Clara University in California (a friend is the conductor there now and doing some exciting things with the orchestra.) Also, if you post on the Music Major forum you might get some informed answers.

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I can speak for Bard - the college students rarely get to play in the Conservatory orchestra - maybe one or two every few years. However, the College orchestra is strong but perhaps not at the level of a really good regional youth orchestra. The music department in the college, however, is one of the best in the country IMHO. :slight_smile: (My S is a graduate of the double degree with the conservatory.)

12

I think it is highly competitive for non-con students to play at Oberlin. We were told it is nearly impossible on a visit there about 3 years ago.

Has he visited LACs?

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We were told that non-Cons don’t get to play in Con orchestra or other ensembles at Oberlin, though there is a College, rather than Con, orchestra. Technically, the auditions may be open to all, but a non-Con student is simply not going to beat out Con students.

Test optional schools which give substantial merit aid, and do not require test scores for merit aid include: Denison, Knox, Kalamazoo, Earlham, Lawrence, Beloit, in the midwest. Gettysburg and Dickinson are test optional but require test scores for higher levels of merit. Franklin & Marshall only gives financial aid, no merit. Ivies and NESCACs (Amherst, Williams, Bowdoin etc) are financial need only, no merit aid. Centre, Rhodes and Sewanee all give merit aid, and require test scores. Rhodes is strong in sciences, as I understand, with lots of pre-med shadowing opportunities etc.

Lawrence University, in Appelon WI, does have open auditions for non-Cons and Con students for all groups. They are test optional, and give substantial merit aid, up to, I believe, $22,000. There are also ensemble scholarships for non-majors playing in the groups, covers the cost of private lessons. There are stackable merit awards for community service, another $8000, I believe.

Knox might be another school to consider, also test optional, and does not require scores for merit aid. They are building a new fine arts building so that music and theater get to take over the building which currently houses all of the arts, so the physical space will improve. A very vibrant music scene in town and on campus – my student met with a music prof there (as well as Lawrence) and was very impressed.

Gettysburg has a Con, is test optional, but requires test scores for merit aid. Bard, I’m told, does not give pure merit aid, its merit aid is linked to financial need.

Grinnell is the LAC known for quality sciences, but would need higher test scores, especially for merit aid.

Hang in there, lots of info out there, time to start making charts!

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Re Oberlin: it depends how good you are I know a non Con cellist who played in the Con orchestra who graduated last year. Any high quality orchestra is hard to get into but that was the OPs request.

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St. Olaf college has an amazing orchestra that tours every year. The conductor is fabulous. It is audition only and you audition and find out if you got in during the application period. We loved the college and especially the orchestra. We sat in on a rehearsal and the atmosphere was ELECTRIC. The students and conductor were clearly having the time of their lives and the playing was better than professional orchestras I’ve heard. St. Olaf has very good financial aid both need based and merit.

Skidmore gives out substantial music scholarships for non-majors. You have to audition for these. We’ve visited the school, but haven’t heard the orchestra play yet.

College of Wooster gives music scholarships for non-majors. You have to audition for them. They give you a choice of 4 audition dates. We visited the college. Beautiful campus. Great opportunities in the sciences. Not sure how good their music program is.

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Might want to look into Furman.

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Purdue University has a variety of music groups and ensembles. The university does not have a school of music, making all participants non-music majors. Even though my daughter did not end up going to Purdue, she is a STEM girl with a passion for music, plays several instruments at an advanced level, and was excited about the possibility of being involved in music there.

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I’ll weigh in on Purdue as well as my D is a violist there. They have two orchestras. You audition before the beginning of the year. The Symphony Orchestra is the less challenging of the two and is where you will be placed if you aren’t strong enough to be placed in the Philharmonic Orchestra. I would predict that since your son has played in a community orchestra that he could be considered for the Philharmonic. My D was though her first year she played with the Symphony since the other didn’t fir her schedule. There is a definite difference in the quality and difficulty of the music. This past spring break a group orchestra member from both orchestras went to both Madrid and Barcelona Spain to perform. Our D loved the experience. Either orchestra is a two credit hour class. They typically meet the final class of the day. My D is an engineering major and is doing a 5 term co-op. Since their music program is not part of a major or minor she participates when she is in the school and that is accommodated.

I think one of the reasons Purdue has so many students interested in orchestra is their STEM focus. It’s been my experience that many with a musical mind are also strong in the stem subjects. Since IU has the music school (a very good one) they tend to get the students who choose to major in music while Purdue needs to accommodate all of those musicians who are quite talented but aren’t interested in music as a major. I would guess that any number of schools could accommodate your sons desire to play in an orchestra, Purdue is one I have direct knowledge of.

19

Another university to consider is Case Western Reserve. They are within university circle which is also home to the Cleveland Symphony and Cleveland Institute of Music. Case has it’s own orchestra and sometimes has some collaboration with the other venues. It’s pretty cool to be able to walk from your dorm to Severence Hall and watch one of the worlds premier orchestras.

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I would second St Olaf. Auditions are open to all, the orchestra is truly excellent, and chemistry (all sciences) are top-notch. Your son’s GPA make it a match and if his test scores are good as well as his music, he could get significant scholarships.
The scholarships for musicians who don’t plan to major in music are due Dec 15 (general app due in January). These are the requirements for the viola players, non majors:
Two compositions in contrasting styles. Approximately 10 minutes total. The repertoire should include a movement from a standard concerto.
Scales: any major scale (your choice) and one of the following melodic minor in three octaves: violin/viola: D, B, E; cello: D, A, E. Finalists should be prepared to play any major scale of the committee’s choice and one of the above melodic minors in three octave