Second Semester Crash

<p>Hi-
Just finished reading another post similar to what I’m going to write and that posting gave me courage to go ahead and ask for advice here.</p>

<p>So, D has returned home for the summer after being out of state for her first year of college. She specifically went to this college because of an engineering program there- only about thirty schools in the nation are specifically accredited for this engineering program. She was awarded a small scholarship, renewable every year, as long as she maintained a B avg.</p>

<p>During her last three years of high school she struggled with depression after a friend died. Horribly painful time; wouldn’t wish it on anyone. She did get counseling and went on medication for depression. She also is prone to anxiety. Additional information to add to the mix is that our oldest daughter has always been an academic “star” and youngest D was regularly reminded of this throughout middle and high school.</p>

<p>D’s first semester of college was challenging with the adjustment, course-load, etc., but she pulled 2 B’s and 2 C’s. Pretty good considering the program and being almost a thousand miles away. She repeatedly said how much she loved the area, the college, and the people she was meeting. After returning to school post- Christmas break, she decided (on her own and without informing us) that she didn’t need medication. She told us (later) that she didn’t like the idea of “needing” anti-depressant medication. </p>

<p>Add in to the mix (unbeknownst to us) that she was questioning the choice of her major. We brought her home over spring break, even though it wasn’t in our plans financially; hubby could tell that she needed to be here. She never mentioned that she was struggling, nor did she say anything when we talked on the phone or skyped. For the three weeks after spring break we received increasingly frantic phone calls and we listened and helped her problem solve; she decided that she needed to go back on medication and see a counselor, which she did follow through on. Then, due to a too rapid upping of her depression medication, she had a full-blown panic/anxiety attack. Apparently, this can happen when on this medication if you’re prone to anxiety. Talking with her over the phone and assessing the situation, we could tell something was very wrong and were able to catch a flight to see her for a four day weekend.</p>

<p>During that visit she talked about coming home after the year and transferring to a school closer to home. We spent the weekend listening to her and being as supportive as possible so she could sort out her thoughts without pressure from us. As we spent time talking, the only thing she didn’t like about the school was the major. By the end of the visit she had calmed considerably and decided to change her major; she just couldn’t envision herself being an engineer. She became proactive about getting information about other majors and talking with advisors – this proactive approach was different for her, as compared to her last years in high school. She saw the counselor weekly until the end of the semester. We thought all was back on track and she repeatedly thanked us for going to be with her, stating that we don’t know how much it meant to her. </p>

<p>Fast forward to now. We just saw her second semester grades. One incomplete and three F’s. We were stunned (expecting C’s at the least) and asked her- how did that happen? She said she didn’t expect F’s. When we asked how is it possible to be failing classes and not know that, she said that she hadn’t told us just how bad it had been for her since the beginning of February. Apparently she spent a lot of time in her dorm room and barely went to class second semester. She was basically immobilized, and that is why she was so grateful to us for flying out to see her. She didn’t even tell her best friend here back home how bad it was for her. Nor did she confide in her boyfriend who attends college in another state. Hubby and I are the only ones who know what has happened with her. She is now on academic probation. </p>

<p>One thing I told her as we talked is that all options are staying on the table and that the most important thing now is for her to get healthy. She is on antidepressant medication and has taken responsibility since being home for making doctor appointments and a first counseling appointment, interviewing for a second parti-time summer job, etc. Point being that her thinking is clear and she is functioning better. As we talked it also became clear that she has good insight in terms of issues she needs to deal with, and is motivated to deal with them. We weren’t seeing this in her previous counseling stint. One of her issues is confidence in herself. </p>

<p>Hubby and I haven’t told her this yet (because we just found all this out this week and it has been a roller coaster ride) but part of the condition of her going back to school in the fall- IF she returns- will be determined by her progress in counseling and her willingness to take a lighter class load. We have discussed between the two of us the possibility of her taking a semester off and returning in the spring, or taking a full year off. Like I said, all options are on the table. We aren’t trying to be secretive, but do want to approach this with her having given some serious thought as to how to proceed, before talking more. And, as I said earlier, what is most clear to me is that her well-being and health must be the priority.</p>

<p>Ideas? What do we need to be thinking about and considering? If any of you have gone through this with your child and come out the other end, I’d appreciate your insights.</p>

<p>One possibility is for your D to see if she can get retroactive medical withdrawal grades for her spring courses. She can make a case that her mental health issues incapacitated her in all of her classes. She’ll need to provide the school with medical documentation, and she may need the support of her professors and the personnel in the psychological counseling office. </p>

<p>If she’s convinced that she wants to transfer, however, it might not be worth the effort to pursue the retroactive withdrawal. If she does decide to stay at her current school, the W grades would keep her from getting into a huge GPA hole.</p>

<p>I’ve seen this happen to two close classmates of mine, and it happened during their Junior years. They both had to take a year off because of the severity of the instability. They both graduated and are all spiffy and successful today.</p>

<p>Really great recommendations by NJSue.</p>

<p>I know a family that experienced something very similar with one of the sons. Just as NJSue suggested, the parents were able to work with their son’s university advisor to get a retroactive medical withdrawal with tuition refund. </p>

<p>After his medical withdrawal, the boy lived at home for a year and worked part-time. His parents were able to monitor his medications and ensure he attended his counseling sessions. Once he was stable, he transferred to a school closer to home.</p>

<p>The boy found a great job after graduation and worked for five years. He has just now returned to school to pursue a graduate degree. By any measure, he’s doing wonderfully.</p>

<p>I know this is a painful, difficult time, patc, but there’s light at the end of the tunnel. All the best.</p>

<p>All I can say is it sounds like you really have a handle on things, and I think you have every reason to be positive–no matter which route you go wrt transfer. A student, even one without the mental health issues your D faces, can get overwhelmed and shut down. I’ve seen many do a second semester crash. I’ve also seen many students bounce back from a horrific semester once they get into a better major for them.</p>

<p>If she decides to stay at the same school then look into whether they have a freshman forgiveness rule. Understand this type of rule you can retake the class and the new grade replaces the old grade so it saves a gpa. Good luck with the situation.</p>

<p>patc, I’ve been thinking about you all day. A couple of thoughts:</p>

<p>The fact that your daughter struggled through a bout of depression in high school is a red flag. It’s very possible that she hasn’t yet resolved her feelings about her friend’s death and that her current struggles are more related to that than to her choice of major. When a kid is hundreds of miles away from home, then emotions related to the death of someone close can easily become overwhelming when there’s no family safety net. </p>

<p>The boy I spoke about in my earlier post is a close family member. I left out lots of his story, but he was also an engineering major who changed majors after an earlier semester with terrible grades. Changing majors didn’t help his grades at all, and his parents went through hell before realizing their son’s best choice was a medical withdrawal. His counselors later determined he was suffering from clinical depression.</p>

<p>That’s not to say that your daughter wouldn’t be OK simply by changing majors, but please know that there might be more to her problems than choice of major. IMHO, the distance from your home to her school is a huge concern, especially since she has already shown she’s capable of hiding her situation from you. If it were me, I wouldn’t allow her to return to school until I had resources in place to evaluate her well-being on a regular basis and report back to me.</p>

<p>Just know that many, many parents have been in your shoes, and their kids are now happy, productive adults. You’ll get through this.</p>

<p>OP, I PMed you.</p>

<p>I am sorry for all your daughter’s difficulties. You mentioned that she has a small scholarship. If she has lost or will lose that scholarship, will that be a problem in paying for her education? Since you are exploring many options, that is something that should be part of the equation. Not to mention that it sounds likely that you will have to pay for more than 4 years for her to get a bachelor’s degree.</p>

<p>Also, it is true as someone mentioned that many colleges allow students to retake classes and use the hopefully higher retake grade in the student’s GPA. However, if the failed courses were related to the engineering major that she has moved on from, then retakes may not make sense. The after-the-fact medical withdrawal may be the better option if it is available.</p>

<p>Thanks to everyone who posted and also to those of you who PMed me.</p>

<p>As the situation unfolds and we gain clarity as to how D will proceed, I will post an update. This might take awhile.</p>

<p>With much gratitude to all of you…</p>

<p>Unfortunately, not all schools allow for retroactive medical withdrawals. Our D’s U doesn’t appear to, as we spoke with the head of the Disability Office about this as an option when she took a nosedive this spring (her senior year) due to the death of a favorite aunt and on-going chronic health issues. :(</p>

<p>HIMom-
I’m so sorry to hear about your daughter’s difficulties… it’s so hard to watch as our kids go through situations that are painful, life-changing and, sometimes, irrevocable. </p>

<p>Thanks for providing the information so that we’re not blind-sided if this is also the case for our D.</p>

<p>I hope your daughter regains her health and well-being. And my wish for you is that you are able to find some measure of serenity amidst it all.</p>

<p>The weird thing is that we saw her more than usual–3 times this this spring (including the end of March) plus a few times in the fall and had no knowledge that she was having so much difficulty. She’s a better actress than I am a sleuth, I guess. We have urged her to work with academic coaches at her school to develop better time-management life-skills and reach out for help MUCH earlier so that there is room to manuver. Have also reminded her she has met and can talk with the TOP guy at the disability office.</p>

<p>H & I are pretty OK about this, but were extremely surprised at how badly she handled this semester. She hadn’t really thought about how close she was to this aunt and this was the first death of someone she loves that she’s confronted as an adult. Before the death, she was having very little stamina due to the chronic health issues and this was just the tipping point. :(</p>

<p>Fortunately, we will be able to dig deep and manage the costs of an unexpected additional year of school. She has just realized that it does make more sense for her to take a lighter load and perhaps explore some internships next year (which are reserved for students anyway).</p>

<p>Good luck to you, PatC and your child. I feel that our kids and we do get stronger from overcoming adversity (though adversity not something any of us WANTS, but it does comfort me sometimes to realize how strong and resiliant my kids have grown because they have had to in order to be with their peers and succeed).</p>

<p>As a parent of two bright, talented kids who both have had academic stumbles, I would strongly encourage you to do the following:</p>

<p>1) Have a complete physical work up. You don’t want to miss something like hepetitis or IBS or other illnesses that can cause constant low grade fatigue.
2) Ascertain if she snores or is constantly tired during the day. If so, have an evaluation for sleep apnea.
3) Try an elimination diet to check for food allergies (if one is allergic to a food it can cause problems with concentration
4) Have an ADD evaluation, to include these tests (these tests provided amazing insight into how one of our guy’s brains work and don’t work):</p>

<p>Delis-Kaplan Executive Function System (D-KEFS)
Auditory Consonant Trigrams (Brown Peterson Task)
Rey Complex Rigure Test</p>

<p>5) Read and talk about the causes of procrastination (some good books on Amazon on this). Sometimes a person desperately wants to be perfect but knows that perfection is hard to obtain . . . so they just can’t get going because as soon as they get going, they are going to be evaluating themselves and that leads to the agony of knowing they aren’t perfect . . . </p>

<p>6) Read and talk about barriers to “Executive Functioning” and “item initiation”. Not everyone can use a clock and calendar well – even if they CAN do advanced calculus. </p>

<p>7) Above all, tell D that she needs to let go of feelings of guilt, shame, embarrassment and anger as these are barriers to her understanding herself. Make a point of sharing stories about others who failed at one thing but succeeded beautifully at another (Abe Lincoln and Harry Truman come to mind). Put out the welcome mat for her to tell you and Hubby about other things she learns about herself through “screw ups” – you can even have a rating system like they do at Olympic gymnastics (One of my guys will tell you “Scored an 8 of 10 on the Epic Fail today”). Recently I observed “OK, you are in the ditch with a flat tire but you haven’t hit a tree and totaled the vehicle – so what’s the next step in retrieving yourself out of the ditch?” </p>

<p>Go celebrate her wonderfulness. Don’t draw the drapes and act like someone died. Yes the money for a semester is gone – but D learned that good people can freeze. Good people can fail. Good people can be in a bad situation and be good actors. That’s a lot of learning that will help her be an astute and compassionate friend, partner, parent or manager. She got some value out of this term. </p>

<p>Hang in there. Lot’s of work ahead but sunshine on the situation is a good start.</p>

<p>Thanks, Olymom! Suggestions on where and how to get an ADD workup? It has never been suggested to us, so not sure how appropriate it is. Time management & procastination is a huge issue for D & has been all her life (as it is for many people).</p>

<p>If you live by a university with a professional (school, counseling, clinical) psychology PhD program, inquire as to if their clinic does ADHD evaluations. In many cases, these are significantly cheaper and have semi-shorter waitlists e.g., 3 months v. 12 months)\ than private practice psychologists (only licensed psychologists–or supervised psychology praticum, internship, or post-doc trainees–are qualified to do full-blown psychoeducational ADD assessment)</p>

<p>“This might take awhile.” - Yep. And wise of you to understand that there are seldom quick fixes for big problems. Good luck, OP! </p>

<p>Great suggestions from Olymom. I wish I had encountered info like that 6 years ago.</p>

<p>HImom - Good luck to you too. It is really tough to untangle issues of depression / anxiety / executive function (disorganization, procrastination). You’ll make the best progress if your D is willing to talk about things (with you and professionals).</p>

<p>Am printing out a paper I found on the web on “Qunatifying the Effectiveness of Coaching for College Students with AD/HD Disorders” by Wayne State University. It’s 234 pages but says it’s the most comprehensive study to date of using coaching for executive function disorder. Whether or not my kiddo has ADD, ADHD, or EF Disorder, she sure could use help with time management, procastination and pacing. I will be reading this and working with D on this over the summer.</p>

<p>On the ADD workup . . . </p>

<p>I have a client who is an PhD Clinical Psychologist and specialized in testing/evaluations. She said that she is booked solid for several months as not many Psychologists actually do the testing. If you decide to go that route you might need to really jump on it to get an appointment this summer. She said that this is the time when many HS seniors and returning students in your shoes are trying to get in.</p>

<p>Unless we want to medicate, is there an especially compelling reason for testing? Can’t we just help our kiddos develop/strengthen planning & ED skills, even if they don’t have diagnosed LD ED disorders? I think D would STRONGLY resist testing and any attendant labeling but more willing to try to develop/strengthen planning & ED skills.</p>