Second semester trouble--withdraw or tough it out

Parents Forum
1

<p>S is in second semester in mid sized eastern private university studying engineering. Very smart, good SATs, but was not a super motivated HS student. Has had significant issues with anxiety and depression from time to time that complicate everything. </p>

<p>First semester went "ok," he dropped one class because he hated the professor and subject matter, had around a 3.0. Had mixed feelings about the social life and other aspects of the school. </p>

<p>Went back for second semester. Rushed and pledged a fraternity, terrific we thought. Turns out he did little work during the first half of the term. Now failing or nearly failing everything, and these are tough science and math courses. He is under enormous pressure.</p>

<p>His options include toughing it out and trying to raise his grades to something tolerable, which he is not certain is possible, especially given his frame of mind, which is that he has ruined his life, withdraw from some courses to focus on others, withdraw from school altogether (which must be done by end of the month, unless for illness reasons in which case end of term, his history of anxiety etc. may allow this to be possible but we don't know), or finish the term and declare "bankruptcy" which wipes out the entire semester but needs to be replaced. Withdrawal shows on the transcript, bankruptcy also but differently. </p>

<p>We've spent close to $30K on this term. Coming home to live and attend CC sounds like a disaster to us--first, S is incredibly hard to live with, second, how he would do is anyone's guess. All of his peers are at good to great 4 year national unversities, good state universities or LACs, other than peers who are just hanging around. He claims he'd like to work--some minimum wage job which will make him miserable I am certain. And CCs in our state, CA, are very impacted. Could be a difficult road for a couple of years. </p>

<p>Transfering is difficult at this late date in any event. </p>

<p>Questions or requests for thoughts--what's worse, withdrawing with "withdrawals" on a transcript vs. bad grades which can be explained bc of significant psychological issues vs. a medical withdrawal. Of course, ideally we get at least Cs on the transcript but I am not confident that is going to happen.</p>

2

<p>If he is in emotional/mental trouble, it is probably a wise thing to withdraw and take a leave of absence for personal reasons. Let him come home and recover. Don’t push or nag him to go to cc, return to school, or anything. Find a good counselor to whom he can speak, get a good medical check up and just let him get his act together. Then you can discuss the next step.</p>

<p>I’ve been through this and made the mistake of trying to fix something that was too far gone and then try to go back on the same path before the kid was ready. You want a healthy kid before making plans on the future. Get the toxins neutralized and just give him the love and attention at home. Just make sure the rules are there that this is not one big party time at home with no rules and constraints. You love him, you want him to relax and get it back together, but this is a sanctuary for him, not a party stop.</p>

3

<p>I am an engineering professor and have seen many freshmen in this same situation. My advice is drop courses but be careful to keep enough credits to keep financial aid(usually 12 credits but depends on the school) Even if the grade on the transcript is a W (withdraw) that is much better than an F. Keep the classes you have the best chance of raising your grade to a C. Look at how many more exams/projects are left in the semester-- the more points left, the better the chances of raising the grade. Go to the tutoring center immediately, and plan to go there at least twice a week for each class you are in. It will take a lot of work to catch up, but it is possible. Also talk to each of the teachers about what he/she would recommend. Good luck!</p>

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<p>When there is this involved

I’m hesitant to offer suggestions… as we strangers from a distance really can’t account (usually) for that kind of complication.</p>

<p>Putting that aside and just focusing on what I’d recommend for a student who has “slacked” but can potentially salvage something from the term… I’m in the camp of “tough it out.” Absent mental health issues, I’m just not in favor of folding under pressure.</p>

<p>I’d say go with a plan along the lines of what idahomom is recommending. Pick and choose among current coursework, maintain some reasonable amount of credits and… buckle down and do the work. Transcript might not look pretty, but he can work semester to semester to get that necessary upward trend and turn himself around.</p>

<p>Sounds like the frat and rushing was good for him socially (I’m interpolating here, so apologies if I’m getting it wrong), but that he then didn’t focus on academics. Sooner or later, he needs to learn to balance social and work/academic responsibilities. We all do. Running away from this failure/bad choices doesn’t help him with facing a mistake and getting it right on the next try.</p>

<p>We faced a mildly similar situation where S feared failing a course in a tough Engineering curriculum one semester. We encouraged him to do his best, rather than withdraw, let him know that we were in his court, and he did eke out a C+. I think it helped him to know that we were taking a support, rather than judgmental, role. Really a great triumph for him to pass that course; valued more by us and him than his A’s in other courses. I know the situation wasn’t the same… but there is a building of life skill when a kid faces his demons and comes out with a success. If he needs academic or other counseling support in order to be able to get those C’s in however many credits he retains, then let’s hope he can get that. The self-esteem (hate that trendy word, but it fits here) boost that could come from him engineering his own turnaround could be of lifelong benefit.</p>

<p>Huge parent sympathies to you, cwj. These kinds of things are tough on us parents, very tough.</p>

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<p>You might suggest to him that he see his professors. My D thought she was failing a class, missed the drop deadline, etc. Because classes like science and engineering get curved, the professor can give you a better idea whether you could bring the grade up to a C.</p>

<p>Science and math classes are just not the kind of classes that you can cram for. You have to keep up with the work–as my D learned to her detriment…</p>

<p>I’m all for finding out what is salvageable and offloading the rest. Maybe he can take a summer course to make up the class or classes that he decided to drop at a local university during the summer. </p>

<p>Of course, if we are talking about serious mental problems, take a medical withdrawal and concentrate on that.</p>

6

<p>Well there is a lot to the story beyond my initial post that is pretty complex to get into. The mental health issues are probably large but hard to say. Important to note that he is completely resistant to counseling or medication, believing it is all a waste of time or else a channel for manipulating or controlling him. Bringing him home is not going to be a nurturing healing experience for any of us.</p>

<p>Of course we’ve suggested seeing professors, counsellors at school, tutoring (there are a lot of resources on campus) but he seems to think it is hopeless even without having met with his professors (who haven’t responded to his emails asking for a meeting, at least that’s what he says who knows). He acknowledges having screwed up the first half of the term bc of rush and not going to class etc. One would hope he would be on top of this but I’m not optimistic. And we are thousands of miles away, can’t do much ourselves. </p>

<p>Thanks for the thoughts on withdrawing from some not all and focusing on those. It’s an option.</p>

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<p>It’s not going to be easy at all for anyone if he comes home. But he may be hurting and needing sanctuary. Why don’t you very gently ask him if he needs to take a leave of absence and come home and think it out? Depression, mental confusion are all part of getting through young adulthood. That 's when those demons rear their heads. Ain’t no one gonna wanta care for him when he’s down like this except mom/dad and home.</p>

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<p>Is it an option for you to go out east for a week so you can help him get reorganized and refocused? I am sure his task at hand looks to him like a giant beast, but if you could help him break it down into manageable pieces… I know for my son there is no way I could do this over the telephone. Maybe there is an extended stay hotel nearby or a “visiting” professors house that you could rent for a week.</p>

<p>Hugs to you</p>

9

<p>…sending a mentally unstable student a thousand miles away probably was the first error but none the less it is what it is. I agree that if he is intellectually and emotionally capable of pulling out the semester he needs to withdraw from what he can and concentrate on salvaging whatever he can. If his mental issues are too large to overcome then he doesn’t belong in the school and you need to withdraw him for those reasons which could potentally leave the door open for the future. To leave him and have him flunk out is the least desireable solution in the long run for him…although if that is what happens then some doors are going to shut whether for good or for bad and he will need to figure out a plan B. I’m so sorry you are having to deal with this.</p>

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<p>This is hard, but so many have been there before.
Has your son had any previous contact with counseling services etc so that he has a medical excuse if withdrawal becomes what is needed? If not, you might try to get that set up. It’s hard to flush a semester away but it’s better than having it on record if the student isn’t capable of going to class and doing the work.</p>

11

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<p>Do we believe this? Signs point to… no. I’d believe that one particular professor hadn’t responded to his emails, but all of them? No. I think he is not being forthcoming. </p>

<p>For that reason, I don’t think he has any chance of salvaging the semester, and I think you should bring him home at once. If he resists getting professional help, I suggest counseling for you, so that you can set up boundaries and guidelines for him. You can’t force him to get help, but you don’t have to waste your money paying large amounts for him to fail at college. You don’t have to allow him to live at home rent free.</p>

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<p>I know you’ve said he doesn’t believe in counseling and medication, but he is showing signs of depression and he should be seen by a professional. Most worrisome to me is his belief that he has “ruined his life.” Perhaps he can be convinced to see someone if he recognizes that this is the path towards a medical excuse, should he need one later. Whether at home or at school, your son probably needs help getting his equilibrium back before he can be successful at living away from home, studying a difficult major under pressure. </p>

<p>I do think this is the most important thing for your son right now. Whether he stays at school or comes home, takes a leave or switches to community college, his frame of mind should be addressed.</p>

<p>Good luck to you and your family.</p>

13

<p>My D was slow to learn this but was in a similar situation. But soph year, first semester. </p>

<p>Unless he wants to withdraw from school he has to meet with his professors. Freshman year she did well on the first exam in Physics II but completely failed the 2nd. Went to her professor and he said that if she did well on the final he would drop the 2nd test. Who knew!</p>

<p>At 50,000+ schools, they do not want kids to fail. Promise. My D has TA’s in most of her classes even this year, her junior year. They are much more accessible than the teacher. She has a class this year which is hard for her. She goes to all of his office hours and makes sure to go to every class and recitation. </p>

<p>You must insist that he starts going to class. Every class, every recitation. No exceptions. I know there are mental health problems there but does he really want to come home? It sounds like he is happy socially and likes the fraternity.</p>

<p>He might have to drop a class. He might want to think about changing his major. There is a major at my D’s school, Supply Chain Management for one. Working in industry but with less of an engineering bent.</p>

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<p>It’s really difficult to give any kind of an accurate assesment of a situation like this on the internet. I mean, how depressed is he? How bad is his anxiety? CAN he function at this point? Is he in any kind of real emotional danger? I don’t know.</p>

<p>So, that said, if he is experiencing some mild anxiety and he has been shown to bounce back from this once situations in his life improve? I would recommend him dropping the classes he is failing and finishing up the rest.</p>

<p>If he has a history of complete implosion once it starts, in other words, if he is not able to right himself until it ALL stops and he has some space and time to “reset?” I’d bring him home.</p>

<p>Only you and he and his counselor can know this. And, i don’t care if he WANTS counseling, if you are paying for him to go to school, you can make it a condition of your paying. He can sign a release saying the doc can let you know if he has visited or not. You are not completely powerless in this situation as you think.</p>

<p>Good luck to you. Either way, he needs a therapist.</p>

15

<p>Thanks for the comments. Of course it is impossible to provide a lot of specific guidance to a stranger in this format, but if you’ve been in this situation you may agree that it is extraordinarily difficult to find any competent advice, or to discuss it with peers most of whom have no idea what you’re talking about. </p>

<p>Bottom line, S is very resistant to counseling, therapists, medications etc. He is not someone who needs “sanctuary”; he does engage in some magical thinking, for example, that coming home and getting some crappy job is going to make him feel better. Yes, of course he is suffering from depression. Not easy to treat when someone is not compliant. Getting him out of the social pressure cooker of our small, wealthy, competitive exclusionary town was a key factor in letting him go in the first place. Keeping him here would have been worse–for him, and you better believe it for us.</p>

<p>We’ll see if he can save a couple of these classes. Going out there is possible though we’ve bailed him out one way or another since 7th grade and I’m not very interested in doing so now.</p>

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<p>Although tough for everyone, maybe it’s just time to stop bailing him out. If he decided to withdraw from classes, could he possibly take a semester off to regroup, get a job and decide what he really wants to do? </p>

<p>Good luck to you - I know how hard it is to watch your kid make mistakes.</p>

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<p>Not sure what you could do to bail him out of this mess unless it were to be to talk to the school about a medical withdrawal. I mean it isn’t like you can take his tests for him!</p>

<p>Plus I don’t know if I would want to risk another $30K for another term without being darn sure that he’d be able to finish out the new term.</p>

18

<p>Others who know more about it than I do have posted possible solutions for this semester. I justed wanted to speak to the leave of absence/CC aspect.</p>

<p>My D had a miserable freshman year; different issues, but she decided to take a leave of absence from her school after the first year. She wasn’t ready to be away from home and with a year under her belt, needed to take some time to think things through. She saw a therapist during her extended time at home, took a half-load at the local CC, and worked parttime. It felt like a defeat at first, but she now says it was the best thing she could have done. I think it felt to her like hitting the re-set button, and she’s now back at her LAC and doing very well. </p>

<p>Several things about this course of action were really helpful for her; some of these may apply to your son. First is the simple passage of time. You wouldn’t think that a year could make a big difference at this age, but it really can. Also, taking some classes at the CC might very well boost your son’s academic confidence. Or perhaps just working fulltime would be a beneficial break from school. Time at home will give him a chance to lick his wounds, and get some emotional distance from the problems. He might even do some reflecting on how he could approach it differently next time around. And I agree with others that he needs to see a therapist, which is (a little) easier to enforce if he’s at home.</p>

<p>Hugs to you. I know how hard this is.</p>

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<p>I agree with others that this situation is hard to comment on from afar. I do not have a sense of whether this is a mental health situation, what level of concern there is if it is a mental health situation, or if it is a case of an immature kid getting distracted by social fun.</p>

<p>Just want to add a note for the future, since others have covered options for the present so well.</p>

<p>I have a child with chronic health conditions, who has taken a medical leave mid-semester once, and before the beginning of a semester, once. She registered with the disability office and provided extensive medical documentation, before even attending. We pay for tuition refund insurance. Her dean and professors (professors get a letter from the disabilty office, that do not reveal the problem but inform them that she deserves accommodations) were aware of her medical issues well in advance, and have been very helpful when she is strugglin (the dean e-mails professors and tells them to give her extra time, etc.), and the dean has been helpful with the medical leaves. She has to apply formally for a reduced courseload, and it has to be approved in advance. She has not done that yet, but plans to do it for the fall.</p>

<p>I don’t know if your son will be able to get accommodations or obtain a legitimate medical leave, after the fact, especially with no therapist, medications, or other proof of problem and treatment.</p>

<p>If he has a problem with depression and anxiety, he should follow a lot of the same steps that I outlined above, and if there is a next time for these problems, he should be able to get quite a bit of support, whether he decides to stay and struggle, or leave and heal.</p>

<p>My two cents on the present: take a leave now, unless a course or two really are salvageable and his state of mind is up to doing the salvage work. You should go out there and meet with an administrator with him (whatever the equivalent of “dean” is at the school). This is not “bailing him out,” if he has mental health issues. It is leveling the playing field and giving appropriate assistance.</p>

<p>Leave all options for the future open, including returning in the fall. Ask your son why he is majoring in engineering, and help him evaluate his interest in that path. By all means, he needs to prove to himself, you and others that he can do the work and sustain serious motivation, before any more money is spent. But this does not have to be articulated in a punitive way, it is just an obvious practicality.</p>

<p>If he is truly feeling that he has “ruined his life” and truly suffers from depression, I would actually think about ensuring his safety, right now. If your house is not a refuge for him, as you have said, then he may be really up against a wall. I don’t mean to scare you, but suicide is always a possibility at this age: they have trouble seeing beyond the immediate crisis.</p>

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<p>One of the biggest reason for me to advocate the leave of absence is that the son does not seem to think the semester is salvageable. That to me is a “help me” message along with some other signs. Better to err on the safe side. Bring him home and give him love, nurturing and sanctuary until he can make a decision as to what he wants to do next. No prowling and carousing, but just some rest and solitude with a lot of care.</p>