<p>Actually, Warmfront is right. This could all just be one big misunderstanding. I mean, videos of naked U.S. Navy midshipmen turn up in my house all the time. I'm sure this is one of those things, and I assure you I will not comment on the integrity or character of this man until the U.S. Justice system makes a ruling.</p>
<p>Warmfront you are so right.</p>
<p>Why can't we all do like the list servs ask and leave this kind of topic i.e. anything having to deal with an individual and a possible court case off of here.</p>
<p>Anyone who wants to get the "dirt" about USNA knows how to google news feeds about USNA. We really don't need to be spoon feed it here. </p>
<p>Here is a link to all of your new sources…post it to your favorites, that way you can get your own news. Better yet just subscribe to the RSS Feed…</p>
<p>I have noticed that there are many less students on here than this time last year...wonder why that is…</p>
<p>LOL CWJones! It took me a while but that's a great post. It is best to withhold judgement in situtations like this. Who knows? Maybe the young Mids asked the good doctor to place the camera there so it wouldn't get knocked off the nightstand.</p>
<p>Ok, to be frank.</p>
<p>I'm not one for casual sex, I've always been content to squeez off a quick one to take care of my needs.</p>
<p>But I understand why mids. would want a place and time to have sex. In fact my BGO told me that he and his girlfriend arranged weekend liasons specifically to make love.</p>
<p>So is it considered inappropriate/dishonourable for mids. to figure out ways to meet their needs, even if their sponsor says it's cool?</p>
<p>If not, then the mids. were cool and the sponsor was completely out of pocket.</p>
<p>^^^
you gotta be kidding.</p>
<p>there is no way you are going to convince me that ANY BGO said any such thing to you. </p>
<p>as for "needs"..... </p>
<p>get a grip.
on second hand............. nevermind. I don't want to be accused of adding to the delinquency of a minor.</p>
<p>My one piece of advice to you is to stick to relevant questions re: USNA if that is the goal. With a whole 15 posts to your name, you have no idea who is lurking on CC..... trust me when I tell you we have had visits from USNA admissions, BGO's, mids and alumni..... I am not sure how your "needs" will be "viewed".........I know how they are coming across to this parent.</p>
<p>as for "figuring out ways"....
"is it inappropriate/dishonorable".....<br>
if you have to ask, it probably is.
forget it.</p>
<p>these mids were not "cool".<br>
and the actions of the sponsor, if true, were deplorable.</p>
<p>and as far as you "squeezing off a quick one".....
get a life.
and if you even think for one minute an attitude like this is going to cut it at USNA with all the SAVI initiatives going on, perhaps you should be thinking about other college choices instead of how you are going to "squeeze" anything else at the UNITED STATES NAVAL ACADEMY.</p>
<p>And just in case I have not been crystal clear ..
frankly, I am APPAULED!!!! :eek:</p>
<p>^^^^^
Hear! Hear!</p>
<p>Since zackaw is from San Francisco, we all know that he doesn't have very many positive role models.</p>
<p>Not to sound like a prude, but midshipmen shouldn't be having sex until they get married.</p>
<p>Part of the Academy's mission is to train midshipmen morally. Prior to the Department of Defense losing a lawsuit regarding compulsory Chapel attendance, the Chaplain Corps provided that didactic instruction. Subsequent to losing an appeal in the DC Circuit Court of Appeals, the moral part of the Academy's mission has been secularized.</p>
<p>Even though casual sex has been accepted in our society as being "normal," and even though college students on many college campuses are promiscuous, doesn't mean that that type of behavior will be accepted at USNA.</p>
<p>I can see this topic has brought out the "Let's start throwing rocks with our first post" crowd.... :rolleyes:</p>
<p>Let's be mildly realistic, folks. This is not about the sex. It's about the videotaping and the alleged improper relationship between Mids and a Sponsor.</p>
<p>All Mids are of legal age, and can therefore engage in legal sexual activities. If you think they don't, then you are being naive. As with anything else, however, there is responsible behavior and irresponsible behavior.</p>
<p>Scheduling liasons with your GF/BF while you are a Mid is nothing new, and provided they are careful and smart about it, I don't care nor do I have any standing to do anything about it if I did. I did it. My classmates did it. It's nothing extraordinary, while I'll admit that I always treated it with a bit more finesse than "squeezing one off".</p>
<p>If they were being videotaped without their knowledge, it's not their fault any more than if you got caught with your spouse on a camera that had been installed in secret by the A/C service guy who came to fix your HVAC last week. If they were having sex parties, then that's another, entirely different, set of circumstances. </p>
<p>Let's keep things in perspective...</p>
<p>Anyway, I'll step out and let the perverts, moral relativists, and rock-throwers have their fun. Enjoy!</p>
<p>
[quote]
Since zackaw is from San Francisco, we all know that he doesn't have very many positive role models.
[/quote]
</p>
<p>BWAHAHAHA! ROFLMAO! :D</p>
<p>Z....
rockthrowers?????
are u kidding????
the message was outrageous.... sorry.
And while you know i hold you in the highest regard, I will ask you to rethink this one from another angle....</p>
<p>Straight and simple....would you let your girls EVER step out the house with someone who is looking to "squeeze in some sex" whereever and whenever he can so he can take care of his "needs?"<br>
Tell me you wouldn't have the shotgun ready!!!!</p>
<p>You are right...it is very much about the illegal videotaping of others without consent.
But this particular poster made it about something else.<br>
New poster or not, the post was outrageous, and it deserved the response it got. Not a matter of "the throwing rocks at a new member" club....
you know better.</p>
<p>With all due respect, GA...</p>
<p>As a parent, the idea of absentance has an obvious appeal....</p>
<p>as a realistic parent, however, I also recognize that despite one's "best intentions," abstenance is not always realistic...</p>
<p>as a nurse, and teacher, I also know the research has showed, over and over, that the kids who are unprepared...and I include those who have taken "vows of abstenance," are often the ones that end up with unwanted outcomes. So do those who treat sex as the casual behavior you describe.</p>
<p>I am of the conclusion that parents, teachers, docs and nurses, but especially parents, must provide the education necessary for informed choice. Factor in maturity, responsibility, committment, respect, etc.... all necessary components not mutually exclusive. </p>
<p>Sex happens. I do not necessarily find it "abnormal." One's attitude towards it, however, can be totally out of line, including where it occurs, when it occurs, how it occurs, and one's attitude surrounding the behavior. Having sex in one's sponsor's home, no matter how "open" the house may be, is, IMO, is blatently disrespectful...both to the sponsor, as well as to the partner. There is a time and place for everything; this was neither.</p>
<p>The Mids, while steller in most regards, are not angels, even though they are held to a higher standard- and expected to perform. IMO, they should know better. As for this particular sponsor, the behavior, if true, goes beyond words.</p>
<p>As with everything else in life, it boils down to R-E-S-P-E-C-T. </p>
<p>The poster obviously needs to get some.
The sponsor has some serious couch time (and jail time) coming if the allegations prove true. The courts will decide.
The mids need to act like responsible adults.
And the poster, no matter how "new," needs to THINK before hitting the enter key.</p>
<p>WOW WOW!</p>
<p>Big Clarification: Squeez one off means masturbate, I.E., I've never had sex, I'm a virgin and I'm waiting for a real, meaningul, adult relationship, and one I have needs -yes we all get horny- a quick and private masturbation will do for me.</p>
<p>Also, you don't have to believe what my BGO told me if you don't want to, in fact is probably best if you don't because his words were probably meant to be private, and I don't want him to get in trouble.</p>
<p>But if there are some brass, USNA faculty members, and upperclass midshipman on this page, I WANT them to see what I'm posting, and respond to it. Yes, I do want to know if USNA is the right place for me, I Want to know what the explicit and implicit rules are, and this is certainly a factor.</p>
<p>
[quote]
Z....
rockthrowers?????
are u kidding????
[/quote]
</p>
<p>Not you. That wasn't your first post. ;)</p>
<p>
[quote]
Straight and simple....would you let your girls EVER step out the house with someone who is looking to "squeeze in some sex" whereever and whenever he can so he can take care of his "needs?"
Tell me you wouldn't have the shotgun ready!!!!
[/quote]
</p>
<p>Of course I would! But the sad fact is that one day my little ones won't be so little, and I'll have zero choice but to let them make their own fool mistakes just like my parents let me make mine.</p>
<p>
[quote]
You are right...it is very much about the illegal videotaping of others without consent.
But this particular poster made it about something else.
[/quote]
</p>
<p>Which is why I tried to steer us back to the point of the story. :)</p>
<p>
[quote]
But if there are some brass, USNA faculty members, and upperclass midshipman on this page, I WANT them to see what I'm posting, and respond to it. Yes, I do want to know if USNA is the right place for me, I Want to know what the explicit and implicit rules are, and this is certainly a factor.
[/quote]
</p>
<p>There are (or at least WERE), very few explicit rules concerning sex in my day. Most are obvious: not fraternization, no sex in the Yard, no pregnancies, etc. Implicit rules are, by definition, difficult to define. In short, if it doesn't cause embarassment to USNA and the Navy, then chances are you're OK.</p>
<p>Painting with a broad brush, to be sure, but to try and nail this down is like trying to create a bucket of water without the bucket: futile and messy.</p>
<p>Z...
[quote]
Not you. That wasn't your first post.
[/quote]
wow.... did I totally misread that one!!! oh my!!! now i get it.... :o</p>
<p>...(with head down and tail between legs) thanks for the clarification. And I am glad you will have the shotgun at the ready. And I know you will do everything in your power to have your young ladies persons of wisdom, empowered with the best knowledge you can give them....of that, I have no doubts! </p>
<hr>
<p>Zackaw: what can I possibly say.</p>
<p>Thanks for the explanation of "squeeze off"... it was most unnecessary.</p>
<p>As for your private practices, I suggest you keep them PRIVATE. This is a situation of too much information. Your motivation for such a post in a public forum is highly questionable.</p>
<p>If you believe that your BGO's message was meant to be private, you should have respected that and not repeated it here- or anywhere else.</p>
<p>And if you REALLY want to know if USNA is meant for you, then start asking questions that REALLY matter. </p>
<p>If you are having difficulty discriminating between "right" and "wrong" behavior, so much so that you need to have "explicit and implicit" rules concerning sexual behavior spelled out for you, then the only thing obvious to me is that you have not done ANY of your homework re: gaining insight into the Naval Academy...</p>
<p>an "informed" candidate will have, at the very least, done some basic research.... reading the catalogue for one.... it is not hard to ferrit out what behavior is expected.... it is detailed...explicity... in the USNA Honor Code...."midshipmen are persons of integrity"..... they are "honorable"....they "do what is right"....they are "trustworthy".....they show "respect"....</p>
<p>so do yourself a favor...
start caring about how you come across....
maturity is a valued factor in the admissions process....
I am not sure how your comments about your "needs" and how you address them will be viewed on the maturity meter, but it is my guess they will not rate high.</p>
<p>By all means do find out if the USNA is the right place for you...
but rethink about how to best get that accomplished.
Talking to your BGO is great..... but how you managed to venture into the "where to make love" conversation is beyond me. That he actually offered suggestions how to beat the system still lies outside my scope of comprehension, sorry.</p>
<p>If you want information that will be of value to help you sort things out, get out of the bathroom and go and visit the academy.
Ask questions of current mids.
Go to an information session.</p>
<p>As for your "quick and private masturbation".... keep it quiet and keep it private....and keep it OUT of these posts, OUT of your sponsor's home, and OUT of your room in Mother B.... i highly doubt your roomates will appreciate any such behavior, especially when they are busting their butts getting the bathroom squared away for inspections. If you find yourself with an undying "need to know" question in this regard, then email someone privately.... </p>
<p>Having said that, I will ammend my earlier comment of "get a life"....
to "grow up."</p>
<p>Everything matters at USNA....EVERYTHING.
If you are serious about embarking on this journey, please keep that in mind. Every word, gesture, reaction, comment, etc... will be judged.<br>
You have but one chance to make a first impression..... is this the one you want to make????</p>
<p>
[quote]
...(with head down and tail between legs) thanks for the clarification.
[/quote]
</p>
<p>Bah! </p>
<p>A hug and a kiss next time we meet and we'll call it even. :)</p>
<p>As for the rest of your post above, AMEN!</p>
<p>^^^^ LOL!!!
over a glass of merlot,
and maybe we can invite jamzmom to bring the chocolate!<br>
seems like i need it!!! and it's only thursday!!! :eek:</p>
<p>GA's tongue-in-cheek role model comment was more than appropriate. Morales have changed from the time we were kids. One of the purposes of the Academy is to meld this diversity of humanity into what is considered acceptable behavior for Naval officers. Whether it is a plebe-to-be discussing "squeezing off" or a parent, I think, a while back, consternated over her plebe's girl friend getting an apartment right outside the gate, we all have a different views on the accepted level of morality. I honestly feel for the instructors who have to teach it.</p>
<p>I'm sorry.
I think I'm still being misunderstood, but anyway my line of conversation is irrelevant now.</p>
<p>I got the information that I wanted, namely that I should adjust to the mindset that I will not have sex before marriage, and that I should keep any mention of sexual needs under raps during my time in the academy.</p>
<p>I've trained for months with USMC poolies and recruiters who are open about this stuff, and I joined this blog believing it was a largely confidential (and therefore safe) environment for current mids. and prospective plebes to discuss every facet of life at the Academy.</p>
<p>Regardless of all that, I'm sorry for offending anyone.
When I'm 21 maybe I can add a bottle of California cabernet-sauvignon to your table of reconciliation.
peace</p>
<p>zackaw.</p>
<p>You had a very pertinent and valid question to which you received a totally inappropriate answer. You have nothing for which to be sorry. It would take an extremely naive individual to ascertain that sex is not a part of the life of a midshipman. You were correct in your observations concerning this thread and the fact that somehow the midshipmen were perceived at fault, causing the incident, by having sex. Your question is pertinent, even from the theoretical standpoint in that would you want to be a part of an institution that would attempt to "prohibit" sex among consenting adults. </p>
<p>Since all midshipmen do not have the luxury of a significant other with an apartment right outside the main gate, the "how to" is probably a valid question. I applaud sponsorers who have the foresight to lay down ground rules for all types of behavior in their homes. While I applaud those who insist on rules similiar to the coed dorms of my youth, I am certainly not so naive as to think they all are like this.</p>
<p>Don't leave the forum. Sometimes, it takes a while to get through those who think the irrelavent chocolate and merlot drivel is the purpose of the forum, but usually the answer is there somewhere if you are persistent.</p>
<p>
</p>
<p>My normally very vivid imagination is totally out of control. Can a midshipman announce "I am going to the library" with a straight face"? Can one announce the same without receiving a round of guffaws from his roommates. Will the walkways around the Academy be renamed? Should we start a renaming contest? Running on the seawall would become hazardous to one's health. Ah, for the good old days when sea gull crap was the only concern. And Bradley Olson of the Baltimore Sun would probably be lurking in the bushes. Wait, does the Bancroft Hall rule apply to female midshipmen also?</p>
<p>With all due respect USNA69...</p>
<p>
[quote]
or a parent, I think, a while back, consternated over her plebe's girl friend getting an apartment right outside the gate
[/quote]
</p>
<p>and since you noted this not once, but twice, I will respond. It is still a bone of contention....and NOT something I would recommend to anyone. Having said that, it has not escaped my attention that many, many mids....and parents of mids for that matter....are "downtown" renters. Some things are out of one's control.... despite one's best, and persistant, efforts, foot-stomping, lectures, demands, hissy-fits, etc.... Feel better now? I don't... our son is 20, soon to be 21... not 16 or 17, seeking advice for admission.... and rest assured, the lecutes remain front and center. </p>
<p>
[quote]
You had a very pertinent and valid question to which you received a totally inappropriate answer
[/quote]
</p>
<p>That would depend on which answer you are referring to. </p>
<p>It is not the question that was necessarily the problem.... it was the way in which it was asked....compounded by the additional and inappropiate information in which it was framed. Do you really expect us to agree that talking about where-to and how-long it takes to "squeeze off" is an appropiate way to make an inquiry about the USNA????? </p>
<p>
[quote]
we all have a different views on the accepted level of morality. I honestly feel for the instructors who have to teach it.
[/quote]
<br>
and while i would agree, let us remember there are a few not deserving of such pity.... they were brought up on charges, if i recall correctly....and dismissed. </p>
<p>Then again, I am of the mindset that "it takes a village".... parents front and center. And I put Alumns right up there in the "front and center" catagory....except when they hold so fast to outdated ideas that the advice is no longer relevant.</p>
<p>
[quote]
Sometimes, it takes a while to get through those who think the irrelavent chocolate and merlot drivel is the purpose of the forum, but usually the answer is there somewhere if you are persistent.
[/quote]
</p>
<p>apparently there are those that continue to miss the point no matter how clearly it is made....but it's nice to see that even you are able to find the answer in there, abet with a little persistance. IMO, persistance is a good thing.
[quote]
My normally very vivid imagination is totally out of control. Can a midshipman announce "I am going to the library" with a straight face"? Can one announce the same without receiving a round of guffaws from his roommates. Will the walkways around the Academy be renamed? Should we start a renaming contest? Running on the seawall would become hazardous to one's health. Ah, for the good old days when sea gull crap was the only concern. And Bradley Olson of the Baltimore Sun would probably be lurking in the bushes. Wait, does the Bancroft Hall rule apply to female midshipmen also?
[/quote]
</p>
<p>what the heck are you babbling about????? </p>
<p>The rule is simple....sex is prohibited in bancroft hall.... and i believe it is unchanged from even when you were there. But heck.... if your message is to "do as you like" then as a PARENT what can I say to an ALUMN of the Class of '69 that advocates for jerking off in the bathroom at-will!!!!! To heck with formation...study hours...RESPECT FOR ONE'S ROOMMATE....</p>
<p>Am I to understand that this is acceptable behavior???? If you are telling me it is, then my response (aside from being appauled) is to rent a room and be done with it! And I would add to that to make damm sure you wear shower shoes at all times if this is what you would advocate!!! </p>
<p>And yes, I am of the mindset that what is good for the goose is good for the gander....only it is becoming increasingly obvious the gander, once again, comes out ahead..... at least they have the good sense not to post their sexual "will I be able to get any" on-line in a public forum!</p>
<p>If the ONLY question this young man can come up with is over his concern as to where and when he can "squeeze one off" then God help us, 'cause the seagull poop will be the least of the worries!!! </p>
<p>
[quote]
and I joined this blog believing it was a largely confidential (and therefore safe) environment for current mids. and prospective plebes to discuss every facet of life at the Academy.
[/quote]
</p>
<p>and generally speaking, it is...
but that does not excuse poor judgement. Talking about squeezing off anything in the face of the recent scandels at the USNA is not only in bad taste, but it is not acceptable, in any way, shape, manner or form, in a mixed setting, on any level. The sooner you realize that the rules of the "good old boys" club no longer apply the better. This is 2007 for goodness sake. </p>
<p>As for your apology, consider it accepted. Glad to see you realize the drinking age is 21. And whatever you do, remember to wash your hands....frequently. </p>
<p>Now go and do some real research on the academy so you can come back with questions that will be relevant to your success at gaining admission, if that is what you want.</p>
<p>one final note...</p>
<p>
[quote]
I've trained for months with USMC poolies and recruiters who are open about this stuff...
[/quote]
</p>
<p>That does not make it "ok".... not anymore.</p>
<p>But I think you got it now.
At ease, and best of luck.</p>
<p>Thank you m'am. I realize now that my line of questioning was inappropriate for a public forum, especially after thinking about the words "decorum" and "propriety" and the roles they will play in my life as an officer. </p>
<p>My words also came off as immature and offensive to women, who are much more than just fulfillers of our (manly) "needs".</p>
<p>And there are much more important questions that I need to be asking before I-Day.</p>
<p>If my writing seems more mature now than my initial posting, it's because your words remind me of what my manners, & what my father and other mentors of mine would say if they read my post. I believe I'm way closer to this person, in words, beliefs, values, thoughts, actions, than I am to "squeeze one off" boy. Please don't have your mid. find me in Bancroft this year and figuratively crap on me.</p>
<p>Thanks for your aknowledgement USNA69'. You guys are figurative pillars of morality at USNA, as your class number is inscribed in glass at the foot of Jesus in the chapel. I agree that my question was pertinant and I'm glad to have your support, but my question is definitely more suited to a private conversation, and should be posed in a more mature way. Maturity is something that must be learned, not taught by intructors and role models
(& you other people know very little about my home, family school, community, city, and region; please do not make comments that you have no grounds for making).</p>
<p>We all love our country here. We're all past, present, or near future part of the USNA, and it's unfortunate that we're complicit in talking about it as a subject of tabloids. Therefore I'm going to avoid this thread. But don't worry USNA'69, I'm not leaving the blog and I'd be happy to discuss the Academy with you.</p>
<p>Aight: goodnight, Godbless, peace,
USNA 2011 student</p>
<p>Well Zach-</p>
<p>thank you, indeed, for your thoughtful post. Sometimes lessons are hard to learn, but it's the learning that counts in the end. </p>
<p>So my lesson learned tonight is to try and exercise a bit more patience with the younger folk as they "figure it all out," as well as with the older set as they "figure it all out." </p>
<p>As for the thorpedo hunting you down on the yard, you would have to know him to realize just how alien that sounds.... it's just too funny!! If it takes any extra effort, time, energy, or has to be done without a lax stick and ball in his hand, it just ain't happening..... so don't be loosing any sleep over this one! ;) (in actuality, I hope you do get to meet him....I loved the boy, but I love the man I see emerging).... do your parents proud, for it sounds like they have given you the right tools to get you on your way.</p>
<p>As for posts, it is my hope that the lesson learned tonight is not to avoid posting issues that may ignite differing opinions, but rather have the courage to ask- and listen- to the varied opinions offered.....ever mindful that keeping them respectful and within the boundaires of good taste is key. Sometimes the boundaries get stretched a bit.... I like to think it's because each and every one of us that keep coming back here do so because we feel passionately about the USNA, it's mission and it's values.... and while we may disagree at times, in the end it is the tie that binds.</p>
<p>Best of luck to you and the class of 2011!!!</p>