<p>Nightingale, you are correct. It isn't that we don't want Princeton or other top school grads teaching or doing social work, it is just that economically they may not be able to pay off any crushing debt if they take lower paying jobs. </p>
<p>I also agree that there is a lot of "incompetant" counseling of kids at young ages to go to better, more costly schools regardless of the family finaincial situation. Perhaps counselors should give cost considerations more priority or at least raise a red flag with both parents and kids about any future debt problems.</p>
<p>Sadly, there are no courses in either high school or in college that teach personal finance well. Perhaps high school counselors should start taking a course or two in this area.</p>
<p>"Professors teach less and less opting for research the subject of which is often insignificant."</p>
<p>Coming from Faux news, this 'fact' isn't surprising. </p>
<p>"For instance it was mandated they pay a $500 "health services fee" even though thier daughter was covered under thier health insurance."</p>
<p>I believe this also covers counseling and help with issues that do not require a trip (which may be difficult for a car-less student with a high fever) to the primary care providors or hospitalization. I'm not thrilled with paying the fee either, but I prefer it to the alternative.</p>
<p>Ohio Mom, Yes, some fees, such as for counseling, may be useful. However, as the program noted, there are a LOT of hidden fees that most parents don't realize until they start enrolling their kids in the respective college. This certainly wasn't as true many years ago.</p>
<p>Personally, I believe this is a type of fraud perpetrated by colleges so that parents can't really tell what the true costs are when comparing schools.
It reminds me of why the federal govenment mandated disclosure of the "true" interest rates for loans. Hopefully, there will be federal legislation requiring schools to easily and clearly provide a list of fees as well as a sum total of tuition and all fees.</p>
<p>$500 for mandatory health fees? that is half what we pay for S. And his primary care doctor is just down the road. Still, I understand that, if he were to fall down drunk (unlikely) or suddenly fall sick (never has so far), the first port of call would be the school infirmary, not his HMO. </p>
<p>I don't see going into debt for the University of Scranton over PSU, myself. </p>
<p>Regarding the Princeton grad, I think a lot of students, when applying to college, have only the foggiest idea what they want to do four years later (unless they've got their heart set on being doctors, lawyers of i-bankers). The idea of becoming a teacher and thus not having a very high-paying job must have come some time in the four years rather than as a consideration when the young woman was weighing her admission offers. </p>
<p>I know that when my S was considering colleges, the GC suggested a number of colleges based on fit, academically, socially, geographically. At no point did the GC ask about career plans (which my S did not have anyway).</p>
<p>I know that at my school there is a mandatory health insurance but a waiver is also available if one has proof of other coverage including medicaid in student's home state. I mention this because for nearly every rule at college an alternate route exists.</p>
<p>Harvard has two health fees. One is a straight fee of $650 that cannot be waived. The other is Blue Cross insurance that can be waived only if you provide proof of equivalent insurance. </p>
<p>I have said it here before. We are middle income, upper middle income depending on who you ask. We pay less at Harvard than it would cost to attend UTexas in Austin. The biggest factor is the cost of living that is included at Harvard. The next biggest factor are the fees that are tacked on to tuition by the state schools.</p>
<p>The reality is that tuitions at the top 50-100 privates have NOT gone up faster (actually a little slower) than the income/assets of their full-paying customers. Tuitions would have to be a good deal higher to catch up - and will be. And as tuitions go up, demand will increase as well. No necessary relationship to actual costs of providing the service.</p>
<p>Bought a microchip lately (or Compact Memory card)? $30-$100 for a commodity that costs around sixteen cents to manufacture? No one argues that the price is high because the government buys a lot of computers.</p>
<p>One of the (fairly) new expenditures at colleges is tech support for both students and faculty. Tech support is needed for non-tech savvy profs to do websites, powerpoint presentations, etc... and for students. And all the computers that need servicing. And then there is wi-fi, and computer terminals in every conceivable public space. In my (prehistoric) days, when not every student even had a typewriter, such tech support was not necessary.</p>
<p>I am not going to comment at lenght about my feeling that taking on student loans in excess of $30,000 is a foolish decision in almost all cases. Enough said!</p>
<p>But the item about climbing wall struck a nerve. Colleges today are in an "arms race" to provide top notch services for their students which have no a whit to do with education. Climbing walls, fancy gyms, gourmet food services offered throughout the day, Hilton-lite dormatories, landmark new buildings by world renowned architech's and cost be damned!</p>
<p>Most of us parents grew up in a far different world where we were just happy to attend a college which would propel us to a successful adult life. Climbing walls and fancy gyms?? Nope a stinky weight room, dingy pool, and a few indoor b'ball courts was about it. Indoor tennis? No chance. Gourmet food? Hah! It was mystery meat, soggy veggies, ice cream in a cup offered from 7-9am, 11-1pm and 4:30-6:30. If we didnt like the "menu" or the schedule didnt fit into the allotted time slots there were always the grease berger trucks lined up on 11th Ave across the street from the South Campus dorms. Instead of Hilton-lite I would say our dorms were Hotel Six-lite but were they ever great fun and comfort frosh year. Though yes, we did have maids on South Campus who made our beds every weekday!!! And the new buildings were that rancid, early 60's institutional architecture. But my, what lab facilities and wonderful instruction went on inside!!! And wasn't that what we were looking for after all???</p>
<p>So yes, for once I grudgingly agree with a Faux News point! What a miricle.</p>
<p>When I was looking at costs, when my D was looking at colleges (some things you just don't delegate to a 16/17 year old...), I never found a college where it was hard to find ALL the costs laid out. </p>
<p>Maybe taxguy and ohiomom just don't know where to look, or how to use the web site's search function?</p>
<p>Fraud? Gimme a break.</p>
<hr>
<p>Part of the problem, I think, in discussing college costs and market factors is that there are so many market segments in higher ed, each with their own dymamics. Fox may find it easy to generalize, but those that know higher ed finanance know the risks of such generalizations.</p>
<p>The argument that financial aid, especially federal financial aid, has raised college costs has been floating around for years. And only an economist would appreciate the details. As a practical matter, we are where we are. We can't turn back the clock.</p>
<p>Ohio_Mom notes,"
Yes! - especially if the COA is not included on the website (in a findable location!), also with the tuition and room and board."</p>
<p>Response: You are so right! How many times do you go to a private college web site and have a hard time finding out what the tuition, room, board and fees are? You generally have to do a search to find these things.</p>
<p>Originaloog notes,"But the item about climbing wall struck a nerve"</p>
<p>Response: What I don't understand is why colleges would spend a fortune on climbing walls, gyms etc. but have dilapidated or overcrowded dorms.</p>
<p>Regarding tech support, wonder what older schools did when indoor plumbing came around? New technology, demanded specialists to keep it going.... :)</p>
<p>"But the item about climbing wall struck a nerve. Colleges today are in an "arms race" to provide top notch services for their students which have no a whit to do with education. Climbing walls, fancy gyms, gourmet food services offered throughout the day, Hilton-lite dormatories, landmark new buildings by world renowned architech's and cost be damned!"</p>
<p>But look - they are providing goods and services for folks who can pay (and are begging to pay!) $180K plus! If it looks like a country club, it is because it is SUPPOSED to look like a country club. And the world-renowned architect just adds more prestige, and enables them to push up prices, with even more full-pay customers willing to pay for it.</p>
<p>Even the state u's are in on the act. They've figured out that they'd rather have one well-heeled OOS student than 5 Pell Grantees - it's cheaper! and they make more money off 'em. </p>
<p>What you're describing is a system that works! Not "supply and demand", but Veblenesque. It will continue to work until tuition/rb reach the cost of actually providing the service (I think at many private institutions, it's currently in the $60k-$70k range.) No one forces anyone to pay it. But folks would go down on their knees for the privilege to do so.</p>
<p>It is "worth" it? Well, what's a country club membership "worth"? (Or, maybe, think of it like a four-year "time-share". ;))</p>
<p>You are quite correct. And that is why college costs keep on going. When I was in grad school, one of my classes was in the basement of Sever Hall. In winter, after a snowstorm, the first item of business was for us to remove our boots and hang our wet socks to dry on the heating pipes. Sever has been renovated at great cost, and the pipes are now hidden (hint for those who don't believe in snowboots).
There's plenty of money that goes to funding non-educational expenditures, but alas, they are not fungible and thus available to defray COA for students. For example, the $5million donated so that the spire could be put back on top of Memorial Hall...</p>