@cptofthehouse it all feels so random sometimes! FSU was the only school I felt confident in as a true safety or even a match. <25-30% acceptance rate seemingly cannot be a match for anyone anymore just stats wise, even the most accomplished. It’s so unpredictable for the most part and subjective factors play a huge part
@marysidney, for a 99 percentile kid, it depends on how many acceptances they/you want. They’d probably get in to most schools that admit 50% (and get major money thrown at them). At schools that admit 25%, they have a 50% or better chance at schools where they are in the top 10% with demonstrated interest. If they don’t need fin aid, the giant (but good) publics like UMich and various UCs as well as good privates like NYU, Rochester, and Case (and maybe USC still, though they have really risen in selectivity) are matches or better.
I think many of the LACs are a crapshoot, but if they apply to 10, they should get in to several (at least 1 if they apply to 5 and include some all-female or non-Northeastern LACs).
However, the RD round is rough, so if they’re not hunting for merit aid, they’d actually have a good shot in ED at some pretty good schools (though I think all the Ivies are reaches or too unpredictable in the early round without a hook or something).
Maybe we need to change our ideas of what are really top schools? I mean, if the “top” schools can’t possibly accept students that are completely qualified to be there (in the 99th percentile, etc.), then all those students must be going to other schools, and if those schools are filling up with top students, they must be on the upward swing towards being considered top schools, no? I guess I’m getting kind of jaded about the whole thing, but I just can’t see caring that much about schools that turn away 90% of their qualified applicants. It seems like a “good enough” school that actually appreciates these students might be preferable. I mean, are the ivy and other super-selective schools really that much better?
This thread hammers home the fact that when qualified students apply to selective/super selective schools their transcripts and test scores allow them “a turn at bat” but nothing more.
There are certain aspects of an application students must take control of once they have jumped through the “academically qualified” hoop and make it to bat: presenting/prioritizing meaningful ECs, crafting thoughtful essays, and demonstrating interest. Have they done their homework regarding this selective school? Is the school a good fit for them academically and socially? Financially feasible? If yes, the application needs to tell a convincing story as to why the college and the student are a good fit for each other, and this story has to make sense to the Adcom who has 20 minutes max to read what has taken a student a lifetime to achieve.
What students cannot control regarding their “turn at bat”: what pool of applicants s/he falls into. Athletic pool and legacy pool are given, but who knows from year to year which applicants the academically qualified are actually competing with for spots? Majors, geographic regions, ECs, arts, awards, gender, service? It is different from school to school and from year to year. But one thing is for sure- if an applicant doesn’t show (as opposed to tell) them how ECs and academics are relevant to his/her passions, and how said college will foster such interests, applicants in the same pool who do will rise to the top because schools admit people, not numbers, and they will give priority to those they think will impact their community (and who seem eager to attend).
Advice to rising seniors- pay very close attention to your application (what you say, how you say it), it is the only piece that separates you from the gazillion other academically qualified applicants. If you decide to apply to 10+ selective colleges remember that it gets that much more difficult to craft a compelling story to present to 10+ adcoms as to why you are such a great fit for their particular schools.
@lr4550 I think you really hit it on the head–when apply voice, tone, enthusiasm and the creation of an effective story are HUGE in admissions. Essays matter so much after you’re academically qualified. I’ve seen again and again people getting rejected from top schools, and what I feel is a huge part are weak essays producing week voices. I’ve met with AOs are finicky essays could eliminate a fine candidate.
@lr4550 that is exactly it. If I could go back and alter anything about the application process, it would have been ensuring that my personal voice came through in my school-specific essays
@lr4550 May be the best single post I’ve read on CC
For you, Bananmi, it was quite random. I’ve had pretty good success in my predictions, but no way would I have been doing more than guessing at your results and would have done as well just randomly picking. This does show what the admissions offices are facing What on earth to do if you have 10 equally good apps, and you can only pick one admit? Or 100 and only 10 or 29? Those that you deny, you then have to sort into WL and true denies when on a different day, you might have admitted them all. It’s a tough go. That’s why early reads, even EA are a bit competitive simply because there are usually more “seats” open (taken after the early season) and fewer apps.
There is definitely a lot of randomness in the application process. Making yourself interesting and memorable can help. The admission teams see the same classes, extracurriculars, and essays again and again. I think the student with a different story is more likely to be accepted. That said, lots of fantastic candidates are being rejected or waitlisted. It is a brutal process.
The internet and social media have proven to be an incredible tool in the dissemination of information–duhh. This is especially true when it comes to the search for the right college. Now, when you factor that with over-achieving teens, and counselors who advocate the application of 15+, 20+ schools, well, this makes for an application pipeline that is unseemly and ready to burst.
This problem is magnified when it applies to the name-brand elite institutions. So, while it is certainly uber competitive even for the most qualified, human nature kicks in, and the base rationale of-"-well, I might be in the lower quadrant that gets accepted" becomes the mantra and you have almost superfluous applications to see if they can get into an Ivy plus school. Even in my own household, (3 ds) I went against the grain of their counselors, and said that 10 schools would be the max for the application package. So, while anecdotal, as my Ds cutdown on the top-end of the list, they had successful application to about 70% of their schools (including a couple of Ivies, LAC and UCs). Now, certainly, everyone is different, but I think, kids that make application to 16-17-20 schools are just not as vested in these institutions, and the applications reflect that bulk approach…
Though the argument is there, I am seeing the statistical proof that those who are as qualified and apply to more of the elite schools are having better odds getting into at least one of them. The kid who applies to just 4-6 of those schools has a lower chance than the ones who apply to 14-16 of them After a point it can get into the realm of diminishing returns, but for those kids having heavy, competent adult help, that might not be the case. Some of these kids have hired guns as well as very skilled parents heavily in the picture.
marysidney, consider this an invaluable opportunity for your child to learn how to deal with ignorant people.
We’ve had Top 10 kids at D’s schools go on to Ivy’s, LAC’s, etc., but my daughter happily accepted a terrific offer to join the honors college at a top state university because she has friends who are attending this school and are doing great there (one was just recognized for her biomedical research).
Applicants need reliable, up-to-date admissions information in order to make good, strategic choices during the admissions process.
If a prospective applicant to Kenyon looks on one of the widely used college data websites today they see that 38% of 4,051 applicants were admitted. The 2015 edition of Fiske says that 36% of 3,947 applicants were admitted. Yet if one looks at the recent news release by the Acting Kenyon Dean of Admissions, for the Class of 2019 only 23.8% of 7,077 applicants were admitted. This is a dramatic change. At Colby, applications rose 47% in one year. Since first-year slots at these schools do not increase, many more applicants end up on the waitlist, or rejected.
We felt that we had to do it this way, because in addition to having no guarantee of getting in anywhere (except safety schools), we also knew that we could not afford most schools anyways, so we were going for good offers from good schools. (In fact, my son needs close to a full-tuition scholarship to attend anywhere, so we were up against a big challenge.) Applying to 14 schools created its own set of problems, including the quality of essays going down and having to stay on top of additional requirements, scholarship applications, etc. from each school. I wouldn’t recommend doing it this way unless you absolutely have to or you are completely committed to spending a huge amount of time managing the whole process. But for people who can put in that much work, it might yield better results than just applying to a few schools. This topic has been discussed extensively in the “shotgunning” threads.
ItsSoCold: Best thing you can do now is write to your to choice wait listed school and express your interest. Tell them that it’s your first choice, and that if accepted you will definitely go (assuming that’s the case) and reiterate the reasons you want to go there. Also, update with any new significant information.
@lr4550, this blog post just released by tufts admissions backs up everything you expressed in your excellent post above. For juniors reading this thread, check out the tufts’ admission blog because they have many posts that really explain the whole process well. Makes it transparent.
http://admissions.tufts.edu/blogs/inside-admissions/post/snaps-for-you-baby-jumbos/
I know a young lady who has been rejected at 4 schools (all reaches), accepted at 3 (safeties) and waitlisted at 8 schools. Eight waitlists! There is definitely something different going on here. One lesson I would take from all this is that if you are an applicant from NY or CA with no hooks, you are screwed.
Too many kids apply to the same 20 schools – the numbers just aren’t possible. I just had this argument with a father who was upset his son wouldn’t apply to Harvard. “But he would get in…he is the Valedictorian!!!”
Um…there are about 20,000 high schools in the US – which means 20,000 Valedictorians (at least). Harvard’s freshman class is less than 2000 students – so…
I get the draw of the elite schools, I really do…but I wish kids would go into this process really understanding their chances…and plan accordingly.
Rejected 11/15
Waitlisted at four: UChicago, Duke, Northwestern, Vanderbilt
Guess I’m going to my safety honors program in state. From what I’ve read, getting off of those waitlists is nearly impossible.
Update: Rejected at all the Ivies - not even waitlisted. 1/21.
Looks like I’ll be hoping to get into the schools that I was waitlisted at.