Selecting the "right" classes

Colleges and Universities A-Z Emory University
1

<p>I'm afraid of picking the wrong schedule and suffering later. Has anyone experienced that? If so, any suggestions. For instance, I've read in several places that pre-med students should take bio 141 and chem 141 the first year, but I don't think I can handle both classes at once. Will that hurt me down the road? Also, I've also read that if you only take 1, Chem 141 should be first than BIO next year. Is that true? I took honors bio, honors chem, honors phys, then ap bio senior year. My school had BIO before Chem is that wrong? </p>

<p>I'm thinking of minoring in spanish so I would like to take a spanish class for 1st year. Any thoughts on that? Can some upperclassmen give us some sample schedules and tell us how things turned out.</p>

<p>Thanks!</p>

2

<p>My frosh schedule was very traditional. Here’s fall:
Organic chem (w/226 lab)
Bio 141
ORDER (frosh seminar)
FAME
Religion 100</p>

<p>Supposedly chemistry and biology reinforce each other and some professors take the chemistry aspect seriously, so having chem. first could be beneficial. But honestly, I don’t think having both is that difficult. For most, it beats the heck out of having biology and organic chemistry together (a lot of people do this. I didn’t think it was hard, but many people, especially non-freshmen stress when doing this) sophomore year or delaying organic chemistry until junior year where your major courses have likely increased in difficulty.</p>

<p>Observing my schedule, you’ll notice that it is easy to fit in a foreign language course frosh year. Where I have Religion 100, you could have Spanish “X level” and then be able to continue second semester as the frosh seminar goes away. So basically, even if you doubled up, you may be able to do it if you have AP lang/lit credit. Otherwise, just take 1 part of the sequence, which is okay, especially if you are starting at higher level language (200 or higher) as the sequences are generally disconnected. </p>

<p>Also, as a pre-med, you’ll likely end up doubling up in sciences or math at one point in your career and I assure you, that while gen. chem and biology are a little more intense than the average AP level course (note, that I didn’t say more intense than a good private or public school, because I know that people will object to me suggesting that it’s harder than AP), the combos could be worse depending on the major. If you single it up: You’ll have orgo and biology sophomore year and physics (the Emory version isn’t that hard compared to peers, but it seems to give students much more trouble than chemistry for some reason) junior year. Or: biology and physics sophomore year and orgo. junior year. If you double up: You can do orgo. sophomore year and physics junior year (or vice versa if you want to follow up gen. chem w/orgo. which makes sense). Basically, you separate the “trouble-spot” class of most Emory students into their own years. Also, note that I always place biology at worst in sophomore year. It needs to be done by then, especially if you intend to take any other biology oriented courses.
I really suggest doubling up w/2 intro. courses as opposed to orgo. and an intro. or physics w/anything (if you despise it like many here).</p>

3

<p>im planning to take chem 141, bio 141, Eng 101, either intro anthropology or intro sociology, PACE, and Health 101…</p>

<p>is this too much?</p>

4

<p>nope. Sounds normal.</p>

5

<p>@ilikepizza</p>

<p>my schedule resembles yours except I decided to do the freshman seminar/intros in spring. I’m taking Spanish 212 instead. I looked the its course description and it said “every semester” for Spanish. Does that mean its year-round? Will that be too much course load right off my first year? I’m afraid my spanish skills got a little rusty over the summer…</p>

6

<p>Srry for hi-jacking this thread (but why make another when theres already a few dedicated to almost the same thing?), does ORDER, multivariable calc (I’m pretty certain I am ready for it), organic chemistry w/ lab, intro to bio (141) w/ lab, health, PACE, and POSSIBLY computer programming with python sound like too much for 1st semester of freshman year? The reason I’m filling up so much is because I plan on doing the Dual Degree program with GA Tech. Also, how intense is ORDER really? or any freshman seminar for that matter? Is it another class you can blow off like health and PACE?</p>

7

<p>You can’t take computer programming (or at least you’ll have to take it at the expense of another course, say bio) because that exceeds the freshman fall semester limit (19 credit hours). Just take it next semester if you can or perhaps go to Georgia Tech to take matlab (this is essential to most engineering courses at Tech) like most of my friends who did dual degree (most did it sophomore year). </p>

<p>You’re probably a high powered freshman, so I would say that the schedule you have is reasonable. Many of my friends (same graduating class and earlier ones) took such a schedule (and tougher second semester) and did fine. Also, it’ll get you used to a “Tech rigor” schedule in an Emory environment, the best of both worlds. Also, ORDER was not something you could blow off when I was taking it, but I’ve heard from recent freshmen that it is apparently less rigorous. Aside from that, it is an awesome seminar to have. You get to connect to academic/scholar powerhouses like David Lynn and several other researchers on Emory’s campus. It’s a great experience if you are an aspiring engineer or scientist. </p>

<p>Just watch out for Soria and whoever your multivariable professor is. Most likely they will challenge you at at least one point in each course. Also, if you plan on taking another math (either linear algebra or Diff. Eq) in the spring along w/Soria’s class, I would seek an easy-moderate professor that is also a good teacher (provided that combo. exists as it is rare) because Soria’s class gets a bit harder (say bye bye to “placebo”/grade buffering exams). Just a heads up. I assume you are taking Soria right?</p>

8

<p>I think the python class is only 2 credits its possible to take it. but bernie pretty much summed it up best</p>

9

<p>That would drive them to 20 credits I believe. They already have 18 (b/c PACE and Health) right? 2 credits will put her over. I factored that in because I think that’s like the course my friend took last semester (it was a 2hr CS and was apparently as intense or more intense than many 4 credit hours). Also orgo. lab is 2hrs (at least Soria’s 226-L is, 221L is only 1 credit I believe. Either way, I recommend taking Soria’s lab as it’s much more useful and laid back). This person may have to ask to be granted an exception by some authority. They will have 20 hours regardless w/that schedule. </p>

<p>I may e-mail Soria and ask him how this issue will be dealt with and then report any response. This issue is new as all freshmen are being told to take health and PACE in the fall. This forces a student to a standard load of 18 for the first semester. However, the max is 19 and they obviously did not consider exceptions such as a two hour lecture or lab course.</p>

10

<p>Bernie, idk if the limit applies to me, or whether I’m just looking at a glitch in the system, but on my opus, under my enrollment scheduling times and stuff, it says I have a limit of 22 credits. So I’m not sure whether I ACTUALLY have a limit of 22 credits or thats just a mistake in the system (do you think AP credits could have possible given me that extension to 22 credits?). Also, yes, thats 20 credits even without the programming, so that would be a problem itself, being 1 credit over the stated 19 credit limit for freshmen. It would be great if you can ask Professor Soria and report back to us about it being over the limit. (Yes, I plan on taking 226L and 221Z with Soria for lab and lecture. On OPUS, it says the lab is 6 hrs a week, 3 hrs a day, twice a week, does lab really last that entire time? Cause I understand that other labs are only 3 hrs a week)</p>

<p>Also, if my limit is 22 credits for whatever reason, would you say adding the python class ontop of that would be fine? or would you suggest trying to stay away from it, atleast until later, or even waiting to take matlab (can you take classes at Tech while being a student at Emory?)? </p>

<p>ORDER sounds like the perfect class for me and for my intended career. Since it sounds like you have experience with the dual degree program, what major would you recommend me pursue? Would it be possible to do a major-minor (or even a double major) in the 3 yrs at Emory? And how would you recommend me schedule my courses throughout my time at Emory to fulfill all the GERs, the major requirements, and the GA Tech requirements?</p>

11

<p>It just does that (22 at first) I think, It’ll probably change once enrollment actually starts. I’m pretty sure it restricts you no matter the amount of AP credit you have (I mean, AP credit honestly isn’t that special. Most people have all 6 courses allowed plus some. On top of this, they generally are not the same as the equivalent college course, so saying that some freshmen are allowed to take on more credits than others b/c of it doesn’t seem right). I have friends who are dual degree and are CS/music majors, one is not at Tech and he was Chem and Math, another who may do it is physics and chem. It’s doable as long as you continually take a challenging load. Your experience this year should be a litmus test of sorts in this arena. </p>

<p>About lab: Soria’s lab will sometimes meet twice a week, but not often. He’ll often cancel lab for a day (or the whole week). Normally whether you show up depends on your level of progress on your task/project. The labs aren’t “cookbook” (read the manual and do what it says) like the other lab sections. Often you need to do some of your own research and use intuition along with your peers’ and Soria’s guidance to get tasks done. Basically, the lab is more inquiry based. He doesn’t force it to last 2.5-3hrs. It’s simply: Get your job done, record your results and maybe write a lab report if asked to do so. Given this, often showing up for the 2nd day of lab is unnecessary further into the course. Often it will be used to perform mini-tasks related to your nearly finished projects (like running an IR or NMR, things related to confirmation of results) in which case Soria will reserve time slots throughout whichever day (say Thursday session) for individuals or groups to come in . From what I remember, there were only about 3 weeks where I used both meetings specifically to do intensive lab work (as opposed to one for that and the other finishing touches or not at all). </p>

<p>If it your limit is 22hrs (I doubt this, but cross your fingers), Python is fine I guess. Just hope it doesn’t end up as rigorous as the 2 credit CS course that my friend took the past spring. Having that w/orgo, bio, and multivariate will make for a “fun” first semester.<br>
More advice: Get ready to work hard. Biology and multivariate will have a legit workload or more “pressing” study load attached. Bio lecture (make sure you choose a good lecturer or else, this course can be an energy zapper) has quizzes and stuff, and the lab eventually becomes quite tedious to say the least. And some multivariate profs. give lots of homework. Soria’s class is about figuring out how to study effectively and anticipating curve balls and not being caught off-guard (again, don’t let exam 1 and 2 fool you!). Best that you review notes (uses socratic heavily and puts students on spot. He knows all the names perhaps by day 1 or 2 of class) everyday for it and don’t rely heavily upon the book. Also, if he asks you a question or elicits a response about something being covered, never say “I don’t know” or cop even the slightest attitude (just make up something that seems somewhat reasonable based upon what you learned. It’s okay if it’s wrong. He just wants you to think. He expects discussion, debate, and engagement). He’ll use it as justification to make the exams harder. Basically, his class is the only where you need be prepared when you show up (this will also optimize the amount of bonus points you can earn). The others primarily require you to take in info. in lecture and prepare for any assessments (with exception of case-based sections of biology which are superior to the others. I recommend one if available). Your level of engagement in Soria’s class normally correlates well w/performance on exam 3-4 (where you must do as in class and think about a completely foreign concept). </p>

<p>More heads up on Soria’s course (I always feel the need to do heavy coverage on it b/c it is quite challenging and I feel I should simultaneously warn and comfort those going into. It may be your hardest course) Soria’s course does not “flow” in a linear fashion. You do not cover topics related to each other on some day by day basis. He jumps around and teaches what he wants to (this means you need to be very independent. It’s often left up to you to connect perhaps seemingly loosely connected dots. You’ll be left to think and inquire about such things. He will not “connect the dots” for you). He tends to present relevant material by working and assessing a difficult problem (perhaps on a large molecule) and covering every aspect of organic chem. w/in the scope of the course w/in that single problem (basically instead of 1-2 topics per session, it’s several and throughout the semester, these several will be presented in varying contexts of varying difficulty. After say, 3 contexts, you should have masted the topics and should be able to “connect the dots” I mentioned. This is important for the harder exams. Seeing how otherwise loosely connected issues function together in complex systems and molecules)Best that you take thorough notes b/c anything he discussed or presented is fair game (on an exam, a concept may be applied in a completely new way). Do not freak out when you read the night before to prep. and he then goes on to present something completely different or far more advanced than what you read (basically, your reading will get you started, but creativity and thinking on your feet is key to successful participation) or even covered the day before. The only thing that will reflect readings and notes pretty precisely are quizzes (these are very simple). I just say all of this, because it takes some students time to get used to his style as they are used to presentation of material in a linear fashion. Not only that, but they are certainly not used to the level of engagement required nor the idea that creativity could be applied and tested vigorously in a science course (especially, a frosh or 2nd year course). His style is meant to create an intellectual community in which all students are “on their toes” and are thinking deeply (and communicating those thoughts. sometimes you’ll be asked to come to the board, which is rare in college lecture halls, especially science) about complex topics (often material he presents will far exceed the standard organic chem. course, even in comparison to other elite institutions). You may not like it at first, but trust me, it pays. You’ll probably end up liking it a lot and you’ll be shocked at what you and your peers (class is very collaborative b/c there isn’t a curve, just bonus points, which is basically a “self-imposed” curve) can do as a freshmen. As a future engineer, this is another good class for you, but I have to let you know it has its challenges. Your peers in the class will generally follow you to higher level maths and the like and make a great support group as they are by and large some of the strongest at Emory.</p>

<p>Anyway, I will try to e-mail him on Monday regarding the concern.</p>

12

<p>Yup, you were right, they cut me back down to 19 credits, I just checked. So it IS possible to double major in 3 yrs and still manage to get into the dual degree with Tech?</p>

<p>Ahh, so Soria’s lab is more laid back and like a, “Get your work done, and you’re good,” type of thing, rather than a “YOU MUST COME!,” right?</p>

<p>Ahh I see…If I understood you correctly, it sounds like Soria is similar to one of my AP teachers in high school (except obviously with a college rigor), its more of a Q&A where he expects you to answer his questions/prompts even if you don’t know it, but you should try anyways, rather than a prof just lecturing without any student interaction, right?</p>

<p>What sections/teachers of biology would you recommend? And what do you mean by “case-based sections of biology which are superior”?</p>

<p>How often are Soria’s quizzes? (Or any course’s quizzes for that matter?) And it sounds like you really work around the same people from Soria’s class?</p>

<p>Thanks for emailing him; by the way, do you know when a freshmen should typically receive an “invite” to organic chemistry? (I got a 5 on the AP test and a pretty high grade in my AP chem class itself, so I should get an invite, right?)</p>

13

<p>Oh, and multivariable calc only has 1 section (out of 3, the rest are filled) open right now with only 8 seats left…should this be a concern of mine? or is this one of those classes that will open up more seats at orientation?</p>

14

<p>No, multivariable is considered an advanced course, so no spots will be freed for freshmen. When orientation starts, take your spot in the course as soon as possible (it may be best to enroll this course first round along w/biology). If you don’t make it, cross your fingers that differential equations or linear algebra is available (I think both may be conceptually easier than multivariate, so it may make for a more laid back semester).</p>

<p>I have no idea about invite. I didn’t receive my invite on time when I was ready for it. I just e-mailed him telling me that I want in. If you don’t have one by say August 10-15, e-mail him and do as I did.<br>
Correct on the lab and, yes, Soria would compare favorably with your AP professor. And quizzes may range from every Friday to every other Friday (I believe they are still Friday). However, he puts the dates of the quizzes out on his syllabus. They aren’t pop quizzes. The only pop quizzes that exist are bonus point quizzes.</p>

<p>As for biology. If you see Eisen or Passalauqua as an instructor once names are revealed. They do a case-based course. They split the class into groups and you work on case studies in and out of class. The lecturing component is non-existent (as in Eisen. Eisen has a Soria like approach, encouraging discussion and team building) or much more toned down (Passalauqua). Also, since their exams are mostly written, the grading is more lenient. Your answers for tougher questions need only make sense in context of what you learned, unlike the multiple choice sections (the majority) where you circle a letter and where they try to trick and deceive you at every step. The exams in the case-based sections are very clear (as in, while being application based, do not attempt to trick you. Expectations are clear and you won’t be confused if you studied) and you’ll be prepared to tackle them after doing the case studies. You’ll also learn more as you’ll work w/legit real-life cases in biology as opposed to just taking in a bunch of facts with passive presentation of real applications. Also, quizzes in case-based classes tend to be toned down as they know you are working on assignments outside of class. The fact that case-studies compose a large portion of your grade is a plus as well. In other sections, it’s purely quizzes and exams, so it’s a constant high stakes environment w/no grade buffering (case-studies will help the grade a lot as most do quite well on them). Having almost 25% of your grade in lecture being easier graded, lower stakes assignments is something to value in a college science course. Other bio sections are literally 20% quizzes and 80% exams in the case that there are 5 exams. And 25/75 if four (normally 141 has 5 and 142 4). </p>

<p>Here’s a syllabus for Eisen’s course last year (he did 141, Passalauqua did 142):
<a href=“https://docs.google.com/viewer?a=v&pid=explorer&chrome=true&srcid=0B456FmeCw42BMTZiMTU0YzgtZDllYy00MGQ3LWJiMzEtYjc0ZTc2MjFlZWQ2&hl=en_US[/url]”>https://docs.google.com/viewer?a=v&pid=explorer&chrome=true&srcid=0B456FmeCw42BMTZiMTU0YzgtZDllYy00MGQ3LWJiMzEtYjc0ZTc2MjFlZWQ2&hl=en_US&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/p&gt;

15

<p>I already checked OPUS, considering that linear algebra and differential equations are both advance courses also (correct?), they are also filled and therefore won’t open up any spots for freshmen, so I’m assuming my only option is to get that multivariable spot ASAP. (By the way, between now and freshmen enrollment, do upperclassmen still have the ability to enroll in the class? Or are those 8 spots only to freshmen now?)</p>

<p>Is ORDER a class that tends to fill up with freshmen quickly? Should ORDER and orgo. chem. be classes I prioritize to register for 1st? or can they wait till the 2nd round? (I have pretty late registration times…10:00AM and 2:30PM :confused: )</p>

<p>Ahh ok, I understand now, case-study seems to be better in terms of grading and the lecture environment in class, but much of the fundamental learning seems to be alot more independent and reliant on one’s own dedication to completing the assigned reading, whereas the non-case-study (I assume) lecture will still teach the same stuff regardless of reading, but the student will probably be just confused if they didn’t do the reading. Am I right? (Speaking of reading, looking at the syllabus, is each “F” section (such as F1, F2, etc.) a chapter in the textbook?)</p>

16

<p>Yes get multivariable ASAP. If not, your last hope is that someone drops the other two or to ask whatever professor to overload you in.
I don’t think ORDER fills especially quickly, though it is very good, so I guess I would grab it first along with multivariable. The thing about organic chem. is that you are essentially guaranteed a spot as it is unusual for the course to fill up (he now aims to only have 50-55 students as opposed to the alloted 65 for the course. And even if it hit 65, he’ll overload, so don’t enroll in orgo. 1st. As long as you have a permission number, you get in. No need to rush. I think he gives the numbers around the same time as orientation or a little before). </p>

<p>Also: Biology, I wasn’t saying that. I meant that, even if you do keep up, they often design exam and quiz questions meant to confuse you (the wording is very sketch and often the answer choices are ambiguous and conditional as well, with the correct choice requiring several assumptions to hold up better than the others which often are awesome choices as well) even if you actually know the material. Given that the multiple choice sections rely only on quizzes and exams, it could be a disaster for some. Being confused in a high-stakes situation is never great. The case-based courses require additional effort and more independence (though not an excessive amount, you are after all, working in groups constantly. It’s not like Jose’s where you have to either go through the trouble of organizing a study group or doing it on your own), but at least they are fair.</p>

<p>Also, the “F” and “K” do stand for the book and chapter being read/addressed. There are two books used for bio 141/142. The Freeman biological sciences text and the Klugg Essentials of Genetics text. I’m sure we are one of the only universities that ventures to use 2 textbooks, one being an advanced textbook on molecular and chromosomal genetics. I’m guessing they did it b/c normal gen. bio texts don’t cover genetics with the detail that we aim to. And when you read both books for particular chapters involving genetics, you’ll see what I mean. The Klugg is far more intense and assumes you have some sort of background. We have an “Emory University” edition that is sold as a package in the book store. These are abridged versions that cut out material not emphasized in our course. Evidence suggests that it is cheaper than the full texts, and I’m pretty sure that’s right.</p>

17

<p>Ahh ok, I assume the permission number comes with the invite? Or is that seperate? So I should aim for one of the math courses and either ORDER or biology first, and worry about the other two second. I don’t quite understand overloading, is that simply asking the professor to enroll you into the class even if it goes over the limit, but the actual class itself is the same thing?</p>

<p>Ahh ok, so the case-study is just more “open-ended” and has some variety when it comes to grading (ie. more opportunities to improve your grade), whereas normal biology would be mainly quizzes and tests. And case-study is somewhat more group focused. (Also, I noticed that you mentioned “It’s not like Jose’s…”, I assume you are referring to Soria’s Organic Chemistry? Would you recommend trying to organizing a study group, or finding a study buddy, for that course?)</p>

<p>Do we usually have to simultaneously read both textbooks throughout the course? Or is it like, “Finish one, then go onto the next”? Also, it seems like the assigned reading is 1 chapter a night/class, how “intense” is that? Normal college reading load? Since there are “Emory” editions, would you say to just buy all our textbooks from the bookstore, for the 1st semester atleast? Or should we still bargain shop with Amazon and other sources?</p>

18

<p>1) Don’t prioritize a frosh seminar over key courses like bio or math. Get those done and monitor ORDER vigilantly (hoping it’s not full by day one)
2) Yes on bio, and yes on getting a study group for orgo. Often you may not have to try but so hard as they’ll naturally form in lab or in the mentoring sessions (which usually begin prior to exam 3).
3) 1 chapter a night is not that intense (standard for a science course like gen. bio or gen. chem) depending on what’s being covered. Emory edition of bio book may only be purchased at bookstore. Toward the latter part of bio 141 and throughout 142, you’ll often find yourself reading both each week (and possibly in a day), but you’ll get used to it. It’s essentially basically the same as having to read the orgo. book, but focus primarily on Soria’s notes. If you can get it in one class, you can get it in both.</p>

19

<p>Ahh ok, I guess order is multi, bio, ORDER, orgo for me then…</p>

<p>And Soria is two books too? O_o or you mean the reading is just as much as having to read two books simultaneously?</p>

20

<p>No, Soria is only one book. I’m just saying focus on your notes as much as you focus on the book and that you should indeed focus on notes more just as you will focus on the Freeman more than Klugg for the majority of bio 141/142. I’m saying that they are similar situations and if you can do one, you can handle the other.</p>