Selecting universties for EdD/Phd of Ed

Graduate School
1

Hi there,

First, I apologize if this is in the wrong forum, but I wasn’t sure. Anyway, I’m looking into an EdD/PhD of Ed program after I finish up my masters degree. I went into my masters program immediately after my undergrad studies and I have been given about 50/50 advice on teaching first before applying to a doctorate program.

I wanted to get an idea of where I should be applying. My number 1 choice is UPenn so far, although I’m not super deep into the search/research. I still have 3 semesters of my masters program to complete. What I want to know is what I should be realistically be looking at. Here’s are my credentials:

Bachelor of Science in secondary ed at University of Michigan (3.1 GPA)
Varsity athlete
All Scholar Athlete/Academic All Conference
3x All Conference
1 National Title
Award winning college newspaper columnist
Certified/Highly Qualified Teacher

Masters of Education at the University of Texas at Austin (4.0 so far <-- I know that means nothing much, but I’m confident my GPA won’t change).
Kept competing and I’ve made two U.S. National Teams and one world championship appearance
I have one published article

I also have strong letters of rec from my president of board of education, a senator, and field instructors/professors at Michigan/Texas.

GRE score is low 152 verbal/153 quantitative and 5.5 writing

Currently I’m also working as a coach at a sports academy for elite youth athletes and have a few years of steady subbing.

Not sure if I missed anything important, but if there is something that I def need and didn’t mention, let me know.

So my question is this: is UPenn a ridiculous thought at this point? Should I be setting my sights lower?

Additionally, would going to teach for a couple years increase my odds of getting into a better program?

Thanks

2

Presumably, you want to get a PhD in secondary education and work as an academic, teaching others how to teach. But if you have never actually taught in a classroom, how will you teach others to do so? For that reason I do think that most schools/programs of education like for their faculty to have at least three years of K-12 teaching experience before they hire you into teaching programs that lead to licensure. (I’m not sure whether that is actually a requirement of the schools’ accreditation or just a recommendation, but it would be worth finding out because so many of the ads I’ve seen have this request.)

So yes, teaching for a couple of years would definitely increase your odds of admission. Not only that, but it’s likely to focus your research area. When you get some experience in the classroom, you’ll start to see more clearly some of the really pressing issues in secondary education right there in the classroom - first-hand experience. That will help you formulate some research ideas and perhaps even the seeds of a dissertation topic.

You have to get those GRE scores up to be competitive for UPenn. The 3.1 GPA is not ideal from undergrad, but your high master’s GPA should mitigate that. Also, you say you have one published article - how much research experience do you have, and are you currently doing research in your M.Ed program?

Ditch the senatorial recommendation. Unless the senator has taught you in a class or supervised you in research, he or she cannot speak to your potential for success in a PhD or EdD program. You want those recommendations to be from professors who have taught you or supervised you in research. (The president of the board of education is iffy - it’s only useful if he or she knows your academic and research work intimately and can comment on your potential as a researcher. It may be an interesting supplemental (fourth) recommendation if he or she can speak to your outstanding traits as a teacher and how those are directly relevant to inspiring your scholarly or professional work as an educator, but not as a main recommendation.)

My answers are different if you want a PhD or an EdD to become an administrator in education (as opposed to a professor). But in that case, you really really need the teaching experience.

3

Thank you for the thorough response! I actually should have clarified. I am interested in becoming an administrator in education. And I’ve also ran in great difficulty on whether I should look at an EdD or PhD. I know EdD is application and PhD is research. What I would like to do is do research and then myself, apply it to in the field. Or be conducting research while working in the field. I know this is a bit of cross between both, which is why I’m having so much difficulty choosing.

If I had to choose between both and not cross between them, I would probably pick application because I would rather be working in the field as a teacher and eventually school leadership roles. However, my biggest fear is getting an EdD and then later in life deciding that I want to go be a professor or do research after teaching/admin work at the secondary and not being able to because I didn’t get a PhD.

4

You’ll probably want an EdD. Yes, it is an applied degree, but it’s still an applied research degree.

FOr example, USC has a side-by-side comparison of its PhD and EdD programs, and here’s what it says re: the EdD:

*An EdD student would typically be a person who is:

planning on working in the field primarily as a practitioner
especially interested in developing new technological capabilities
interested in research which tends to emphasize development, evaluation, or field based project*

and the EdD research focus: Application of research to practice, innovation in educational practice

vs. the PhD: Discovery of new knowledge

However, this is going to vary a little bit from program to program. For example, while the EdD will always be the more applied option, at some schools the EdD may be TOO applied for what you want (e.g., you do virtually no research and only learn administrative leadership practices). At other schools, the PhD program is either the only option or a very super applied option that ends up being best for you. So don’t just look at the letters themselves - investigate the individual programs and see how they compare and what the program offers.

I wouldn’t worry about this too much. On a more general level, I wouldn’t worry about it because there’s always a road not traveled. At every decision point that opens some doors you may close some others. The goal isn’t necessarily to pick the path that opens the most doors (regardless of what those doors are); it’s to pick the path that opens the doors you actually want to enter. You can only make the best decisions for what you really want to do now, not what you think you may change your mind to want 20 years down the line.

Secondly, whether you have the EdD or the PhD, it would be difficult to impossible to leave a career as a teacher and then school administrator to become a professor and researcher. There are a variety of complex reasons, but generally speaking people who get hired to be full-time faculty have a track record of full-time research and university teaching - publications in journals, experience teaching college classes, presentations at scientific conferences, a history of grants. If you, say, were a school teacher and then administrator for 15 years and suddenly decide in 2031 that you want a faculty position, you wouldn’t be competitive regardless of what the letters behind your name are because you don’t have the background necessary. Academia is a field that is difficult to re-enter once you have left it. Now, that’s not to say that you can’t collaborate on research with other scholars, write grants, write papers, or even teach some classes as an adjunct (part-time) professor. It’s just that your chances of getting a full-time faculty position are probably slim.

(However, given that education is such an applied field and that it’s much more common for people to work in education to return to academia after some absence, I’d double-check everything I just said. Look up the work histories and academic backgrounds of professors who work at the kinds of institutions at which you’d like to work. I’m pretty sure I’m correct for faculty at top research institutions, but the above advice might be wrong if you wanted to work at a smaller regional university where your primary focus is teaching undergraduates how to be teachers.)

5

Thank you so much! This was extremely helpful!