<p>Son's new college advisor said she was worried about him because his SELF-ASSESSMENT indicated he was in the bottom 6% on intellectual abilities. When she saw his high school GPA and ACT scores, she seemed relieved. Most of the questions began with, "Compared to others your age, how would you rate your reading ability, math ability, etc.?" Compared to his friends, he performs lower. In his school, he barely made the top 33% with a 3.50/4.00. Of course my son never thought to mention that he comes from one of the most competitive high schools in our state. His college isn't "highly ranked" so I'm hoping he'll regain his self-esteem. This really makes me sad and I need to figure out ways to help his younger siblings avoid these feelings. Any suggestions?</p>
<p>I hear about this all the time from parents and kids at our local HS. A 3.5/4.0 would put a student around the 50th percentile or lower at this competititive school! Before Ds started at this school I was sure there had to be grade inflation but came to find out there were just many, many smart kids attending. I remember my D2 talking about kids in her AP Lang class and she described them as the "smart" kids. I was surprised and asked why she didn't identify herself with this group. She didn't see herself in their league even though she had an A in the class and
3.9+ GPA. Self esteem is a funny thing. I just tell my kids to do their best and work hard and remember how much we love them!</p>
<p>one might consider
[quote]
** If you compare yourself with others,
you may become vain or bitter,
for always there will be greater and lesser persons than yourself.
Enjoy your achievements as well as your plans.
Keep interested in your own career, however humble;
it is a real possession in the changing fortunes of time.
[/quote]
**</p>
<p>My children also attend a competitive high school. In a graduating class of 600 we have over 220 AP scholars, 13 Intel semi-finalists (1 finalist), 2 Siemens finalist etc. Over 25% of the graduating class attends a top tier school, and this year (as with most others) about 15 students are attending an Ivy (and all of the Ivies are represented). There are many other students attending some of the other top "20" (Duke, Stanford, MIT, UCLA, UVA, Washington U etc) </p>
<p>Our school doesn't rank, but I was able to see the guidance counselor recommendation for one of the scholarships my son applied for, and I think my son was in the 30% percentile. </p>
<p>Throughout HS my son was aware that there were a lot of kids at his school that were brighter than he was, but I always made sure that he knew that his school was not representative of the country. Most other parents in our district also passed this information on to their children. I'm not sure how he would "rank" himself as compared to his peers, but I don't believe he would rank himself as low as your son did. </p>
<p>I think that the best thing you can do is to explain this to your children and make sure they see where they rank nationally instead of within their own school. </p>
<p>Don't forget that it is not all about test scores and ranking. Focus on their other strengths (my middle one is very artistic and my youngest is a strong athlete) Their positive self-image can come from areas that don't include academics.</p>
<p>Re hazmat's post #3:</p>
<p>We tried to raise our kids with this philosophy, and while I continue to believe it is sound, it led to a little bit of shock in our family. D attended an extremely competitive h.s. like OP's son, and our shock was in discovering during D's senior year, that although she had taken 6 AP courses and had only one B on her entire high school transcript, she was only in the top 15%!</p>
<p>At senior awards night, it felt bizarre that so many other students were receiving academics awards, and she received none.</p>
<p>
[quote]
** it led to a little bit of shock in our family
[/quote]
**
I think that lack of pertinent information isn't the same thing as comparing. Your school must not have provided a profile to the students/parents.</p>
<p>^^You are probably right, but I am not aware of any profile produced by the school that would have prepared us for the result.</p>
<p>Most schools that don't rank provide a profile of the class to colleges. I am thinking that you didn't know to ask for this or didn't understand it? [not trying to insult] The distribution of GPA/SAT/ACT in a class should have made this pretty clear from the end of year 1 and then again year 2 and on until begin year 4. It would seem that schools don't provide such data? Maybe just the schools I have been in.</p>
<p>hazmat....The college was the one asking him to compare himself to others. I think they had good intentions for doing so, by trying to identify those that may need special services. We were never given yearly updates on grade distribution and our high school no longer ranks. Parents were given a school profile, based on the class before us so I guess the school is doing it's best not to make the kids feel stressed. My son and I talked about his ACT scores and how he compared to the rest of the kids taking it. I did this to boost his self-esteem. I think it's hard for our kids to see the big picture. Their opinions are based on what they've personally experienced.</p>
<p>Our school's procedure is similar to toledo's: No class rank, no ongoing update on grade distribution, and the school profile, which is NOT regularly distributed to parents (I only found out about it during the college app process, and only received one by specifically asking the front office for it) provides GPA/score info for the prior class.</p>
<p>One sees the same self-image problems among students in some top colleges. I don't think it's always an issue of students being competitive...they're just in a bubble.</p>
<p>DDs HS was extremely competitive and with straight As DD was still in the 2nd 10% (it was exact scoring grades so 93 beat 92, etc, so no sneaking ranking games) Top kids headed to Ivys and were brilliant and talented. DD learned she was a BWRK ;) It did take a while to find her niche in life, she compared herself to others and found herself lacking- it did not help that BF was Mr. #1</p>
<p>I think when you go from being a top banana through elementary and middle school and are then grouped in a magnet type setting it is a it humbling, the trick is to learn the reality of life without thinking any less of yourself. It did take one of my Ds a while to get over it. She could not see how much she ad achieved, but how much more some other kids were recognised. It was a personality thing, I think. The others were fine</p>
<p>
[quote]
<a href="I%20only%20found%20out%20about%20it%20%5Bschool%20profile%5D%20during%20the%20college%20app%20process,%20and%20only%20received%20one%20by%20specifically%20asking%20the%20front%20office%20for%20it">B</a>
[/quote]
**
I think this is a sad fact for many. Sad only if you wanted to have the data prior to the 11th hour.</p>
<p>My kids both have sometimes commented on "the smart kids" in their grades not counting themselves as the smart kids, despite great grades and amazing standardized test scores. It's okay. When you are at a school with a dozen or more Ivy League kids and dozens more with NM and AP recognition in each graduating year, you can't worry about your performance relative to others. I am glad the school doesn't rank or too many kids could be thinking, "well I'm not #1, but I've got to make sure I am at least in the top 5%" or something like that. </p>
<p>I think that when the kids talk about "smart kids" they mean something different than what that phrase means to us. I know my son doesn't count the athletic smart kids as part of the general "smart kids" group, and anyone who wins a chess tournament, loves Science Olympiad, or wins awards for National History Day projects that he worked on for months would count as a "smart kid" no matter what his or her grades or or test scores.</p>
<p>One thing I like about a school with so many sharp kids is that there is not someone who is the best at everything. (No one expects a smart kid to be the best at trombone, english, math, history, physics, and French.) Lots of kids with lots of gifts. It's great. Everyone benefits from each other. Positive scholastic peer pressure. * "Why are you taking BC Calculus? Your schedule is hard enough? Lighten up!" "We are all taking BC Calculus together!" *</p>
<p>My son particularly is prone to saying "I'm not good at Xxxx" - when he says that, we do remind him of his standardized test scores and tell him that it is all relative. (When does he make comments like this? When he is tired and doesn't want to finish his homework in Xxxx - generally because of too much time spent on a shall-we-say non-scholastic activity!)</p>
<p>This may be a blessing in disguise. Many top ranked kids from good public schools can get to competitive college and find out "oops, I really don't write so well...or I have trouble getting A's..." A good hs education which gave a good foundation in writing for the liberal arts or science and math for those so inclined will pay off in college achievements. This will boost his esteem.</p>
<p>I agree with anothermom2 that it's probably worse to think you're top banana and then discover the world is full of kids much smarter than you. Our high school ranks, but they don't tell you your rank until fall of senior year when it is too late to change it. (And they don't refigure in the spring either.) I really had no idea where my son stood. I knew that he had the reputation for being the smartest kid in his elementary school and one of a tiny handful that skipped ahead in math in middle school and the only kid I know of who took an AP course as a freshman in high school. His rank was fine, but not the tippy top.</p>
<p>Smarter and better prepared are two different factors. Much of the difference in a college class comes to the preparation. I have witnessed this myself. Big public school achievers who had a problem. Not that they weren't smart, they had just not had the preparation in their high school.</p>