"Self Segregation"

Colleges and Universities A-Z Vanderbilt University
1

Hi all, I just wanted to put in my two cents about this term “self-segregation” that so many people say about Asians at Vanderbilt.

I am going to be a sophomore at Vandy this year and am Asian myself. I hear the phrase “self-segregation” from students on campus, alumni from Vandy, and on these forums. I just want to say that in my personal experience, this is a great way for people to take the blame off of themselves and onto the Asians.

When I came into my freshman year at Vandy, I had of course heard about self-segregation, so I swore to myself that I would make every effort to be as friendly as possible to everyone I met, regardless of race. For the first few weeks, I thought everything was fine; nobody showed open hostility, and everyone was pretty nice. However, I slowly began to realize that I was being ostracized in my dorm. About 90% of the students on my floor were white. Instead of openly discriminating against me, they did it in more subtle ways. They made racist Asian comments that were disguised as jokes, didn’t invite me whenever they went out, and generally ignored me unless I talked to them first.

Nobody at Vandy is overtly racist for obvious reasons: politcal correctness, public image, etc. However, my Asian friends and I have all felt that we do not really fit in with the school. In all of my classes, I made it a habit to look around the room searching for Asians. The vast, vast majority of them were sitting by themselves. In Rand, in the library, wherever. They were either alone, or with other Asians. The “popular” frats are void of Asians; most Asians that go greek are in the business/religious/premed kinds of frats. I had a good group of diverse friends in high school in the North, and it was a real culture shock to see this “subtle” racism in the South. I understand that this is a personal anecdote, but all of my Asian friends that I have talked with have tole me that they feel the same way.

The exceptions to this phenomenon are Asian girls. If you’re an Asian girl, by all means, come to Vandy. You’ll have the time of your life and make tons of friends. It’s easy to have a good time when all the Caucasian males are falling over themselves to hook up with you. Everyone loves Asian girls (for sexual reasons or otherwise), so you’ll feel right at home.

To conclude, it’s pretty hard for Asians to make friends with any other race besides their own when everyone ignores them. If Vandy is the “best” school you got into, it’s not a bad school academically. Just don’t expect that your college career will be the typical college lifestyle you see in movies; 90% of your time will probably be spent studying, and the 10% that is social will probably be spent with other Asians. If you are thinking about coming to Vandy and are Asian, just understand that it will be difficult to connect with white students; it would probably be best if you committed yourself to befriending mainly Asians.

Not all Asians “self-segregate” because of choice. Imagine what it would be like if all the white students held you at arms length, and all the Asian students were open to you. Do not be fooled by the term “self-segregation” like I was; even if you try your best to avoid it, you will be forced into it, simply because no other types of students will actually want to befriend you.

2

Thanks for posting regarding your experience as an Asian male student. My Asian D will be starting at a smaller southern college in the fall. I’ve had similar concerns about what she might face socially.

She visited the school multiple times and had frank conversations with several Asian students there. I’m hoping that she will be able to manage whatever comes, especially the subtle stuff that you mentioned.

All the best to you when you are back on campus in the fall.

3

Glad you posted your opinions and I’m sorry you’ve felt this way at Vanderbilt. Hope the situation will improve in the coming years.

One thing I would disagree with is that “the ‘popular’ frats are void of Asians.” I’ve worked with the Office of Greek life and am pretty familiar with the demographics of the fraternities. Asian males are underrepresented in Greek life, but they’re also underrepresented in the population that signs up to be a part of rush, so that’s partially to be expected. To my knowledge there is possibly one fraternity that does not currently include any Asian students, and that fraternity may be “popular” by certain measures, but rather unpopular on many other measures.

4

Hey guys, thanks for replying.

@Pancaked, I agree that less Asian males sign up to be a part of rush. However, I think the reason is similar to my original post. I actually did want to rush when I came to Vandy in order to better “immerse” myself into the culture. However, because Vandy does spring rush, it gave me a lot of time to rethink applying. By the end of the fall semester, I had pretty much fully realized that I would not be able to befriend many of my hallmates. Since all of them were rushing, I naturally thought that if I rushed as well, I would feel left out in a frat, if I even got in at all.

I don’t know whether or not I would have gotten a bid if I rushed or not, but regardless, I had really lost any sense of community with my hallmates, which really deterred me from my initial plan to rush.

5

^^ That very much may be the case. It’s something Greek leaders are very aware of and trying to improve, though it’s not easy – While Vanderbilt’s Greek life is particularly progressive, it’s very difficult to throw off the stigma that’s associated with Greek life across the country. This is something that the Greek community is actively working on. All of the chapters last year signed an “inclusivity agreement” which admitted to the shortcomings and committed to actionable changes. Greek life has become more and more diverse over just the past couple years and hopefully that will continue.

Again, thanks for sharing and I hope you see less and less as you spend more time at Vandy.

http://www.vanderbilthustler.com/news/article_dd141e42-4929-11e4-8d62-001a4bcf6878.html

6

I am not about to discount the way you feel, because those are valid feelings. I would just like to point out that Asian males are not the only ones who experience this sort of thing … at Vandy or at other schools.

D’s roommate was African American - and she didn’t hang with other AA students. The interests she had / things she did just didn’t lend themselves to getting to know many others of her race. She has never seen herself as being any different than anyone else, so she didn’t self-segregate by her race. Like my D, though, she did self-segregate in other ways.

My D (and her roommate) had no interest at all in the party scene. She didn’t want to go to parties, didn’t go to bars, didn’t rush, etc. This did result in a degree of self-segregation. She was okay with it, because she has never wanted to be in with the in-crowd, so to speak - but it did make it a bit more difficult to find her place, something her roommate experienced, as well. But that is how it works everywhere when you are not interested in what “most” people are into. D hosted a radio show, was involved in a leadership position in a charitable group on campus as well as with the Music Group, did summer research for a professor and did several internships off campus. She was involved in the music community in Nashville (not country - there is more to Nashville that country). She was part of mtvU, went to professional society meetings in town, etc.

The point is, there are ways to move beyond the box it may feel others are putting you into. It can take some time and some creative effort, but if you are at Vandy you have the tools to make it work for you. You’ll develop some great life skills in doing so … while getting a top-notch education.

7

@kelsmom

I apologize for making it seem like it was only Asian males who feel this way. That was not my intention at all, and I fully support the idea that this is more of a minority thing than just an Asian thing. I suppose I was a bit blinded by bias when i wrote the original post :smiley:

Your daughter’s experience is something that a lot of minorities that I have met have experienced, and is certainly another dimension to self-segregation. However, I think that the key difference between your daughter’s experience and mine is the fact that your daughter did not WANT to conform to the “in-crowd”. My argument in my original post was that even if a minority DID want to conform, it would be exceedingly difficult because of the inherent bias that the majority of the students at Vandy have.

8

Happy, I wasn’t chastising you in any way … just stating that self-segregation happens to lots of people. It’s common not only at Vandy, but in lots of places (not just colleges). Again, I am not trying to discount anything you feel. I’m just saying that there are others in the same boat. And to be honest, I can’t say for sure that if my D had wanted to conform, that she would have easily fit in the way she may have wanted to fit … no way to know. I just know that it is possible to find your own way … and even if you never really do (my S never did at his college), it’s not a big deal in the scheme of things. Life is so much more than the social aspects of 4 years in college, but the education remains with you forever.

9

A dear friend of my daughter’s, African-American girl from Brooklyn, NYC had this kind of experience at Vanderbilt during her freshman year. She was a star at their high school, a test-in, majority-Asian (as are most of the elite high schools in NYC) public school, not only academically but socially as well–president of the senior class with 1300 students. It’s been difficult for her to find her tribe at Vanderbilt.

10

I’ve seen this a lot in my time at Vandy. Anyone who claims it isn’t true is delusional or just a troll. It’s almost impossible for an asian male to be in the mainstream at vandy. The majority of the white students at vandy heavily prejudice against asians. If an asian DOES somehow happen to make friends with the white students,he’s likely just the token asian friend that they all have.

I went to high school in chicago, and I was really close friends with an asian female (im an asian male). We both chose vandy obviously. When we got to Vandy, the difference in how we were treated was insane. Nobody really acknowledged/cared about me. Even now in my senior year,90% of my friends are other asians. However, my female friend was insanely popular. Everyone wanted to talk to her, and she always had something to do during the night. She has tons of friends now, mostly white males. Its really sickening honestly. It seems like the vandy students cant see past the skin tone of asians. They think that all asian males are fobs, nerds, etc. On the other hand, they think that all asian females are the classic submissive, exotic, sexual beings. The most annoying part about this is that vandy prides itself as being a “liberal” school, when it is anything but that. The students do a good job of hiding their racism through a polite exterior. However, if youre an asian male, i would STRONGLY suggest avoiding this school. Racism is rampant here at vandy, and I suspect, in the south. If you want a good college life socially, go to another school.

11

So basically Vanderbilt is a great school academically but is not accommodating to Asian male students and other minorities? Would you suspect that this phenomenon greatly differs from other schools such as perhaps a school in the north and west? Did you face such an issue in high school (I suspect not, given the culture shock)? I’m curious as whether this phenomenon exists elsewhere/ if it could be avoided, as it seems unconstructive. Thanks!

-Basically I want to know if you think this also exists elsewhere in the south, and perhaps also other parts of America?

12

Vandy is a great school academically. Top tier.

I cant say whether or not this is region based phenomenon. However, I will say that in Chicago, I had a large, diverse group of friends. It seems like OP had a similar situation.

I will say that stereotypes exist for a reason. The south is generally known to be more racist than the north. I believe the exception to this is Duke, which is also in the south, but has a much larger asian population. I think some of the racism in vandy may stem from the stereotype that Vandy students are all rich, white, preppy students. Some of the students may fall for this “self-fulfilling prophecy”, which may cause them to look down on the asian students.

13

^I don’t think a false stereotype would feed into anyone’s life views, that doesn’t make much sense.

I had Asian friends at Vanderbilt who were some of the most socially active people I knew, so it’s really difficult to pinpoint any cause or make any generalizations. I’m now really interested to hear what they would have to say about the matter.

14

@derp125. @Pancaked thanks so much for your viewpoints! As a rising senior, I am searching for a school that I can strive in academically and socially. Personally, I would suspect that while it would be more difficult for social growth, there may be possibilities, as I believe that all anecdotes provide a perspective into the overall situation. Anyway, I’ll keep everything in mind and thanks again! I’m very glad to have seen these perspectives whixh would probably be harder to note on a campus visit etc where everything is set up to look nice.

15

Among top schools (top 20) the two schools Vandy and WUSTL have one thing in common. Both have less than 15% student body that is Asian. Both have over 50% white student body. That may explain the cultural difference at Vandy. vs other top schools. Look at other schools and their student body. At least 25% - 30% of student body will be Asian decent. At Berkeley its more like 40% and white student body is less than 50% at all other top colleges. Just a hypothesis. Agree/disagree ?

16

I’ve said this before, Vanderbilt is not an ideal school if you’re not white and/or Greek. The students who truly enjoy their Vanderbilt experience will be both white and Greek, with a few exceptions. Asians guys at Vanderbilt definitely have it the worst I think, preceded by other minorities. Maybe non-Greek girls have it pretty bad too.
At Vandy, there exists a very rigid hierarchy. At the top are white Greeks, who separate their respective organizations into tiers. These people work tirelessly to maintain this system, and why wouldn’t they? Especially the frats. Because around 30% of the guys are in frats and most of the girls are, placing themselves at the top of this system ensures them the greatest access to all girls. Science.

But seriously, don’t take my word for it. Ask current students and recent alumni in person. Not white students. Not Greek posters like Pancaked. Not some random poster who comes on here and says, “As a black/asian/indian student.” Actually ask any non-Greek and non-white students about their experience at Vanderbilt, and if it isn’t full of “self-segregation” and not truly fitting in, then I take everything I wrote back. You a bit better off going to Duke if you can. Truth hurts.

17

^It is really silly to think this is an issue unique to Vandy and that other southern, 50% Caucasian schools would be much different. I’m all for addressing problems but never for endorsing Duke over Vandy :stuck_out_tongue: .

http://talk.collegeconfidential.com/duke-university/1457149-racism-scandal-at-duke.html

^aside from a fraternity’s blatant racism in that article, you’ll see many posters commenting about subtle/overt racism at Duke.

It is worth nothing that Vanderbilt’s freshman class was 63% Caucasian in 2012 and 52% in 2014. Will be interesting to see the 2015 data. I think having a critical mass is extremely important, though who knows what % that might be.

By the way there have been a number of posts in the past few weeks from students and parents alike about non-Greek students finding their niche and not having any regrets about skipping Greek life.

18

Hey guys, thanks for all of the replies!

I just want to step in and say that it IS possible for a minority to have an “ok” social life at Vandy if you join one of the minority groups on campus. AASA, VUCA, KUSA are some minority groups that are at Vandy, which have their own communities. If you do join these groups, it’s possible to have a social life at Vandy. However, it’s a small pond. You won’t ever actually be in the “mainstream”, and if you do join one of these groups, the white students at Vandy will likely think that you’re just “another generic Asian”.

Nonetheless, if you are an Asian coming to Vandy, those groups are perhaps the only way to actually get a meaningful social experience at Vandy. As I said in my original post, I wanted to distance myself from my Asian roots in order to better immerse myself into Vandy culture, so I did not join those groups. I see that as one of my biggest mistakes in my freshman year. So like I said in my original post, I would argue that it’s pretty much a waste of time/energy to even attempt to befriend any white students. It is best if you simply accept the fact that you won’t fit in, and just try to make yourself at home in the small minority communities on campus.

19

“You won’t ever actually be in the ‘mainstream’, and if you do join one of these groups, the white students at Vandy will likely think that you’re just ‘another generic Asian’.”

Dont underestimate this. I cant even begin to describe the strange looks I got whenever i said that i was in one of those groups. If you do join one of these groups, youre pretty much signing a contract saying “I give up any chance of acceptance with the main student body in exchange for acceptance in this small community”. If you ever mention that you are in one of these groups to a white student, their perception of you will change drastically.

If I’m talking to a white student sitting next to me in class:
“So what do you do on campus” “I’m in X minority group” “oh…”
Conversation ends.

It really seems like Vandy students condemn any sign of Asian-ness. If you show any indication at all that you connect with your Asian roots, prepare for a lonely, lonely college life. The worst part about this is that vandy claims that its a diverse school, yet whenever a minority student displays anything that’s different from what white students are used to, the minority student is pretty much a social outcast. Dont even get me started on how bad malaysians have it.

20

Happy - I recently attended the Vandy roadshow and they were going into a lot of detail about the freshman dorms or Commons and how everyone is integrated in everyway.

It sounds like this was not that helpful in your case?