Self-study for 7th and 8th graders

Test Preparation AP Test Preparation
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<p>Parent question here.</p>

<p>I'm thinking about encouraging my kids to take either human geography or psychology -- or both -- through self-study this year. Both are reasonably bright, probably in the lower end of the 99th percentile or the high end of the 98th percentile. (My son made a 24 on his 7th grade ACT and my daughter is likely to match that).</p>

<p>Neither of these courses are offered by our local school system. Apparently the kids aren't encouraged to take AP exams until their junior year, although my son enrolled in "pre-AP" English in 8th grade and will enroll in "pre-AP" biology in 9th grade (this allows the school to track students without calling it "tracking!").</p>

<p>I'm guessing that there are some sample tests in the study guides that will give us an idea of whether they will pass the test. If they don't know the material I'm not going to encourage them to take the tests and fail. I was thinking we might make this a family endeavor. I know this makes us sound like the goober-egghead family, but we aren't.</p>

<p>Any of you guys take these tests early? I'd love to see the kids get some college credit. Most of the schools which give a free ride to National Merit Scholars accept all the AP hours (our state has few commended students, since if you meet the cutoff for commended you almost certainly make Semi-finalist, so I have high hopes for our kids, so long as they don't have a bad day).</p>

<p>Just from looking at the high school catalog the kids will have a killer schedule their junior and senior years, but until then it seems to me they could easily pick up a few other AP credits through self-study (for example, comparative government in the year they have U.S. government).</p>

<p>Any thoughts?</p>

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<p>Just my two cents worth: The AP Psychology might be a bit mature in content for your 7th and 8th grader. Our school doesn’t allow it until 11th grade. The AP Human might be easy enough but just be aware that many colleges and universities give no college credit for that class.</p>

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<p>Most of the colleges with good merit scholarship programs (Alabama, Auburn, Mississippi, Oklahoma) take the human geography credits with a score of 4 or higher.</p>

<p>I don’t remember anything from my college psychology class that was particularly “mature.” Have they added something?</p>

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<p>If the schools you are looking at do accept AP Human, then great but your higher level universities such as Rice,Georgia Tech, Stanford- award no credit. Yes, the AP Psychology course, depending on the text and teacher, does have specific content about human sexuality. Do you want your seventh grader learning about that at that age? That is up to you but it was a decision made by our school district that the content was too mature and best left until age 16-17 or junior year. Just depends on what you feel is right for your student.</p>

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<p>I am currently a junior is high school, so obviously I have no experience with raising children. However, I’ve been an AP student since freshman year. At my school, AP Human Geography is almost entirely a senior class. In the 9 year that my fantastic AP HUG teacher has been teaching the class, I am the only sophomore to have taken the class and passed with a 5. I truly loved that class, but there was some difficult material. I honestly do not believe that a 7th or 8th grader is mature enough or has enough schooling to handle the material. Especially considering that the key to AP testing is knowing HOW to answer multiple choice and and free response questions. AP can be rough.</p>

<p>In my experience, high school is rough and competitive, especially when you are smart and at the top of your class. Let them enjoy the time they have left of just being kids. There are plenty of years ahead of tough classes and sleepless nights.</p>

<p>:)</p>

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<p>Could not have said it any better, Fivesacharm! Mine is now a sophomore with 1 AP under her belt and another two she is currently taking and I miss those care free middle school days!</p>

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<p>Another “like” for Fiveacharm’s post! I have two daughters who graduated high school with IB Diplomas, one is AP National Merit Scholar and the other was one AP short for it. They will have plenty of time for it in high school if they want to do it. Both took AP World History and AP Statistics in 10th grade. They both made 5’s on these exams. You might try to push for that at your high school. The one that is AP National took APHUG as a freshman and made her only 3 and hated that class. The only thing I would worry about now is that they are on the high math track.</p>

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<p>“Moreover”, I worry about the math all the time! My son says he wants to go into engineering, and he recently took an aptitude test which said engineer, engineer, engineer, so for him I’m not as worried about the math. (You must have looked at my other posts to know about the math). I do worry about my daughter as she is also on the fast-track math schedule. She is very methodical, and once she gets it, she gets it, but she lacks the innate ability.</p>

<p>A lot of people on these board talk about getting four or fives on human geography without an inordinate amount of study, or to be more precise with perhaps a week’s study. So I would think if my kids really worked at it they could pass.</p>

<p>I will share a personal story that perhaps hijacks my own thread. When I was in law school many of my professors didn’t have an attendance policy. Needless to say I took them up on it and attended once: the final. About a week before I would read the hornbook if available (this is like a treatise), a study guide of cold briefs, and a book called “Sumpin-Sumpin in a Nutshell.” I would read the Nutshell twice. I was usually in the top third and often higher as far as grades were concerned, and a few times had one of the very best grades in the class. FWIW, I don’t share any of this with my children!</p>

<p>I only share that to point out that I’ve personally been able to do a great deal through “self-study,” and in my opinion my children are smarter than I am. I should know as I am their parent. I know what I knew and I could and could not do at their age and they are far more able.</p>

<p>But I appreciate the comments. Apparently there aren’t many seventh and eighth graders taking the tests. I would have thought otherwise given the level of competitive “drive” on this board.</p>

<p>I’ll let my kids decide what they want to do. My son wants to do this, but he says up front I will need to hold his feet to the fire. If my daughter does it, she will move herself along</p>

<p>ADDENDUM: I was a high-profile class skipper. The year I graduated from law school an American Bar Association committee visited the law school, and a bunch of very mediocre law students complained because they were bested by someone who had never attended class. Class attendance became mandatory as part of the accreditation standards.</p>

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<p>“EarlVanDorn”, you seem like an interested involved Dad so I am going to give more advice than I usually do on these posts. Do not hang your hat on doing AP with your middle schoolers-you really don’t want to be that guy! Doing anything else with them will have a higher ROI - hiking, camping, reading the same books, exercise, starting any kind of club together or joining any group together. If you want to try teaching the lifeskills - maybe something like cooking, gardening, or handling money. Even learning some computer programing together would be a better idea (one daughter is at GT now)! Just keep it low key and fun. I did not see your other post-but math was the only thing that really counted as my daughters went into high school. The high school years will give you plenty of time to prepare and push your kids for college don’t rush it (from a pushy mother)!</p>

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<p>There are students younger than 7th/8th grade who take APs, but they are very unusual; they possess a great deal of maturity and internal motivation as well as the intellectual aptitude for the material. One also needs to consider the amount of writing required for some of the exams. There are many very gifted thirteen-year-olds who just do not have the writing skills to do well on the free-response sections.</p>

<p>We began AP exams in eighth grade, but for us it was a question of need (access to college classes) more than a desire for anything else.</p>

<p>I think the AP program has its uses, but I would encourage a younger student to find his/her passions, first, instead of structuring an academic career around topics that are addressed by standardized tests.</p>

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<p>@earlvandorn Most of the people who self-study AP classes are Juniors ad Seniors who already have AP classes under their belt. That is, do somewhat know HOW to take an AP test. The AP HUG test consists of 3 free-response questions that must be answered in 75 minutes and 75 multiple choice questions that u have 60 minutes to answer. 54% of high schoolers don’t pass ( that is get at least a 3). It is not a class for a 7th graders.</p>

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<p>I do not mean to be rude or anything like that … but this is completely ridiculous … your child is in middle school and is already taking pre-Aps which is very good congrats … he has 4 years of high school ahead of him if he is taking pre aps already than he can take Aps in high school he has more than enough time there is no need to rush while in middle school. Also even if they were to take the Aps the exams require focus brains and concentration something that most middle schoolers do not have (i am not saying your child doesnt) all i am saying is they have Plenty time, no need to cram and than when high school comes around they do not have classes to take because they already took them in middle school.</p>

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<p>Thanks for the comments. Just to clarify, the APs I was thinking about having my kids take were something like human geography or psychology. These aren’t offered by my children’s school, so it’s not like they are going to run out of AP courses to take.</p>

<p>My son begged us to let him take geometry over the summer and we refused; when he returned to school he found that two other students had taken geometry and are being bused to the high school each day to take Algebra II. So he’s feeling a bit left behind in math and I think he’s wanting to leap ahead in something else.</p>

<p>I think before I go any further I’m going to try to get my hands on a sample test and see what we’re looking at. Thanks for all your comments.</p>

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<p>Maybe your time would be better spent convincing your district to rethink its policies. My kids did Algebra II in MS. </p>

<p>I really can’t see encouraging them to self-study APs. If they are so gifted, please let them explore a subject to their hearts content. Don’t force them to be confined by the AP curricula. </p>

<p>Go to museums, orchestras, plays, rock climb, travel, hike, see an historic park, write music, take photographs, read literature. The list of more beneficial things is endless!!</p>

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<p>he found that two other students had taken geometry and are being bused to the high school each day to take Algebra II. So he’s feeling a bit left behind in math and I think he’s wanting to leap ahead in something else.</p>

<p>This tells me that he is not interested in a particular subject, but rather he is worried about getting ahead (or “leap(ing) ahead”) of other classmates. Where is the pressure to do that coming from??? Just sayin’.</p>

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<p>Mr. Van Dorn, as a recent HS graduate, and an early AP test taker who “tested” his way to the State Scholar award, I strongly believe that the tests themselves are only a small part of being a special student, and there’s much more beneficial and intellectually nourishing activities for your children than to commit themselves this early in the mechanics of standardized testing.</p>

<p>It seems to me that testing and standarized classes serves a big part in quantifying the talents and academical aptitudes of your children. You have self-studied with great success in your college years; I respect your achievements in choosing the path of least resistance for acing your classes. On the other hand, as important as the tests can be, at this early stage of your children’s development, it might be much better to allow them to freely explore a field of their interest–it’s creativity and passion, not the ability of knowing the mechanisms of artificially-drawn tests, that will best serve your children in reaching their full potentials. </p>

<p>In fact, it’s my belief that excessive testing at a young age can do much harm in terms of creativity and potential–it’s a much more valuable experience for a bright young mind to explore by him/herself, than to spoon-feed them information about specific and abstract subjects that can be saved for a later time.</p>

<p>Therefore, run the sample tests and buy the prep books if you prefer; on the other hand, allow your kids the chance to decide what they REALLY want–you will be pleasantly surprised further down the road.</p>

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<p>I think helping your kid in math or a foreign language is more helpful. A lot of schools offer placement tests and he may be able to jump ahead that way. There would only be the diagnostic and, while he wouldn’t get credit <em>now</em>, he’d get it later (and foreign language AP classes are impressive!).</p>

<p>I consider myself reasonably bright and may have done OK on an AP multiple choice, but I would bomb the essays. Essay writing improves so much between seventh and ninth grade, especially since he is taking pre-AP classes. I would maybe save it for ninth grade.</p>

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<p>^^^ I agree about foreign language and there would be so many ways to make it fun with different media! Plus I am learning from my daughter who started French in 2nd grade, took AP and IB French, spent a summer in Paris and is minoring in French, that there is alway more to learn.</p>

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<p>Ap in middle school is unnecessary. Just let the kids play a sport.</p>

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<p>I will say that my daughter is doing many of the things suggested by many of you. She’s in the school orchestra. She takes baton lessons. She’s in a children’s choir. She’s in a book club that reads pr- and early-release books and makes suggestions to the local book store. She has attended Concordia Language Villages French camp for the past four years and will continue to do so, eventually earning high school credit (and hopefully AP).</p>

<p>She has a tremendous talent for creative writing, to the point that I think with some help and the right plot she could write a book (although she’s only written short stories). We’ve talked about it. My cousin, who was in the cable business years ago, wanted me to write a screenplay in my younger days and I didn’t. I regret it. And if this sounds preposterous, read some of the rubbish produced by Amanda Hocking. I think my daughter could do better. There is a real market for mediocre pulp fiction selling for 99 cents on Amazon. I’m even thinking about shelling out some money to take her to a Robert McKee story structure seminar. I went years ago, and while the books are said to be just as effective I think actually attending would make more of an impression.</p>

<p>With all of that said, the only challenging class she is taking this year is algebra. All of her other classes are mixed-ability classes full of very-low-ability students. Needless to say, these courses are not challenging. I’d love to see her do something that requires a bit of work.</p>

<p>As for my son, well he is very bright but he is a lump when it comes to doing extracurricular activities. I don’t say that to be mean, but his spare time activities are Playstation and League of Legends. He hasn’t been interested in learning a foreign language and his sports skills are mediocre so he doesn’t play. He fussed at me (again) yesterday for not letting him take algebra over the summer, so I think he does see academic achievement as one way he can distinguish himself. His grades are fine, but I personally would like to see him devote a little less time to Playstation and League of Legends and a little more time to something productive. And he wants to take a shot at one of the easier AP tests. In the end the worst that can happen is that he will fail. There’s nothing wrong with failure.</p>

<p>Based on past test scores my guess is that my kids will have merit scholarships when they go to college. Many of these provide four years of study, so that if they arrive with 30 hours of AP they have an extra year of financial aid for a year abroad, graduate school or other pursuits. If they don’t have merit scholarships and Daddy has to pay, every AP test passed reduces the cost of a college education by $2,000 or more.</p>

<p>I have to say there is a lot of conflicting information on these boards about the easier AP tests. Some students say they spent a weekend studying for Human Geography and made a 5, for example, while others describe the course as “hard.” I certainly wouldn’t allow my kids to go the weekend route.</p>

<p>I appreciate the comments I’ve receive whether I agree with all of them or not. I’m less inclined to encourage my daughter to attempt one of the tests. She has an active schedule and I do think her spare time might be better spent elsewhere. As for my son, he has nothing better to do with his time and wants to attempt one of the courses. If I think he can pass – and personally I can’t imaging that he couldn’t – then I’m going to encourage him to go ahead and work with him a little bit on it.</p>