Senior Year...Dual Enrollment? Early Graduation

Pre-College Issues Home Schooling and College
1

Hello,

I’m a Rising Junior, but I will be graduating high-school this year and applying to college.

I haven’t taken many advanced placement classes through-out the years, mainly because the sequence is set up to take them during your senior year. Graduating next year and taking Ap is not an option, because It’s very crucial that I graduate this year, due to family circumstances.

I would really like to show colleges that I’m capable of doing college level coursework, so I’m thinking about taking dual enrollment courses this year. . Though, I’m not sure what classes I should take. A few tips are

I want to be a biology major.
I’m interested in taking one or more of the following

English course
Math course
Language course
Science course

My senior course work consists of

Honors Physics
Honors American lit
Honors Brit Lit
Honors Algebra 2
Honors Pre-Calc/Trig

Other courses I’ve taken that are ( Honors or AP)

Honors Chemistry
Honors Geometry

Any suggestions on which dual enrollment courses I should consider?

2

Based on your list of classes that you need to complete, your ability to graduate in a single year might be unrealistic. What did you use for your coursework up to now? What are the courses on your transcript for 9th and 10th grade? I am wondering how you are quantifying your courses for their designations. The AP designation is owned by CB and cannot be used without having taken a course using an approved syllabus. You can’t just label a course AP. AP courses are also supposed to represent college level equivalent work. Was your chemistry a 2nd chemistry course taught at an advanced level beyond a typical high school course? It seems doubtful bc you haven’t taken alg 2 yet.

You could be setting yourself up for poor grades in your DE classes. Are you ready to handle completing an entire yr’s content in a semester for 1 or more courses? Your math sequence up to now is not on par with strong math students since you didn’t take alg until 9th grade. What did you use for geometry that makes you label it honors? The only geometry course taken in 10th grade that I can see calling honors would be AoPS. If you have been using AoPS for alg and geo, then doubling up on math in a single yr is probably doable. If not, then you need to be a strong math student to master a full yr’s material in a single semester. (If you have been using TT so something similar, it could be a very difficult transition.)

Do you ACT or SAT scores?

What type of college are you hoping to attend? A local CC? Your state flagship? An avg private LAC? A top ranked school? The answer to that question will also significantly impact answers.

Just being brutally honest, but unless you are aiming for your local CC, you will face a huge hurdle in the college app process. You need to start applying this fall. Many applications opened today. You will need ACT or SAT scores from the Sept or Oct tests for a large number of schools bc they won’t consider scores from a later test date. You will be submitting transcripts for application that are not very competitive bc your classes are very avg 9th and 10th grade courses. Your course list does not provide a compelling case for early graduation. (Most kids graduating early are doing so bc they have maxed out high school level course work. All of the courses you have listed as still needing are all avg high school courses, not even advanced.) Many schools have an application deadline by Dec 1.

3

@Mom2aphysicsgeek

I’m not a homeschooled student I am a cyber school student. The two are VERY different. I’m not sure how homeschooling works, but my school has board certified teachers who actually teach in a virtual setting/classroom.

“Based on your list of classes that you need to complete, your ability to graduate in a single year might be unrealistic.”

  • We have an early graduation program at my school. You apply by the fall of Sophomore Year. Classes are taken by a semester basis. I will complete Algebra 2, American Lit, Physics, World Studies, First semester, and then complete Pre-calc/Trig Brit lit, etc... etc... 2nd semester.

“What did you use for your coursework up to now? What are the courses on your transcript for 9th and 10th grade?”

School requirements
4 math
4 english
3 science
3 history
2 language
1 health
1 pe
.5 grad project
2 electives

Grade 9

Algebra I Lab
Civics
Earth science
Literary Analysis Comp I
Personal Finance
Physical Education
Spanish I
World History

Grade 10

Biology
H Chemistry
H Geometry 94
Literary Analysis Comp II
Music Appreciation
Psychology
Public Speaking
Spanish II
US History

Grade 11

Honors Algebra 2
Honors Physics
Honors American Literature
Honors British Literature
Modern World Studies
Honors Pre-Calc/Trig
Spanish 3

I didn’t include PE HEALTH OR THE OTHER 4 REQUIRED COLLEGE PREP ELECTIVES. But I have also taken Health, Pe etc… etc…

" I am wondering how you are quantifying your courses for their designations. The AP designation is owned by CB and cannot be used without having taken a course using an approved syllabus You can’t just label a course AP. AP courses are also supposed to represent college level equivalent work. Was your chemistry a 2nd chemistry course taught at an advanced level beyond a typical high school course? It seems doubtful bc you haven’t taken alg 2 yet…"

actually you are able to self-study for the AP test and have your local HighSchool Guidance Counselor administrator it for you. I know you can’t just label a course AO. As I’ve said, my teachers are board certified and teach under the Pennsylvania’s state board of education requirements for all AP, Honors, and standard classes, and they have been certified to teach over 7 AP Courses that my school offers. My chemistry is a standard high-school chemistry class, that goes more in depth then just regular chemistry and covers more topics. Not as in depth as AP but more in depth than basic Chemistry.

Are you ready to handle completing an entire yr’s content in a semester for 1 or more courses?

  • Lol actually I am " ready to handle" that. I'll be taking these courses in two semesters. It's impossible to take both Algebra 2 and Pre-calc/trig or any other two subjects during the same semester, I wouldn't have been approved to graduate early if that was the case.

Your math sequence up to now is not on par with strong math students since you didn’t take alg until 9th grade.

Math is a subject that’s second nature to me. I have taken Advance Pre-Algebra during my 8th grade year, and the only class available to 9th grade students is Algebra 1. You can’t take Algebra 2 without taking Algebra 1 or Calculus without taking pre-calc/ trig. Colleges will look at the classes offered for each academic year, and then THEY will decide if my math sequence is up to par.

What did you use for geometry that makes you label it honors? The only geometry course taken in 10th grade that I can see calling honors would be AoPS. If you have been using AoPS for alg and geo, then doubling up on math in a single yr is probably doable. If not, then you need to be a strong math student to master a full yr’s material in a single semester. (If you have been using TT so something similar, it could be a very difficult transition.)

I’m not familiar with AoPS. My school labels their courses Honors, AP, ETC…ETC… Based on the content taught in the courses. Again, I will be completing these courses in two semesters.

Do you ACT or SAT scores?

ACT- 35 (RE-TAKING)
SAT 1-1450 (RE-TAKING)
SAT 2 LIT= 780
SAT 2 BIO M = 800
SAT CHEMISTRY = 800 (RE-TAKING)
Taking Math 1 and/or Math 2 Sat Subject tests as well.

UW GPA= 3.8

What type of college are you hoping to attend? A local CC? Your state flagship? An avg private LAC? A top ranked school? The answer to that question will also significantly impact answers.

I’m applying to Spelman College, Howard University, NYU (NYC CAMPUS) Hampton University, Temple University, University Of Chicago, UMASS, ( Still adding and removing colleges from my college list.)

Just being brutally honest, but unless you are aiming for your local CC, you will face a huge hurdle in the college app process. You need to start applying this fall. Many applications opened today. You will need ACT or SAT scores from the Sept or Oct tests for a large number of schools bc they won’t consider scores from a later test date

I really appreciate your honesty lol. I have prospective test dates for The septemeber and October tests. Common application opened up Yesterday for the 16-17 school year. I’ve been working on my application(s) since the spring.

Your course list does not provide a compelling case for early graduation. (Most kids graduating early are doing so bc they have maxed out high school level course work. All of the courses you have listed as still needing are all avg high school courses, not even advanced.) Many schools have an application deadline by Dec 1.

Some students also graduate early because of their living circumstances. Most of the schools I’m applying to have application deadlines of January 1st or February 2nd.

4

Since you aren’t homeschooled and already have all the answers, why did you ask?

Good luck!

5

@Mom2aphysicsgeek … lol my initial question was about what dual enrollment classes I should take considering this is my final year of high-school, but you insisted on making this post about how my ability to graduate in a single year is unrealistic… I just wanted some advice about dual enrollment classes.

6

Why don’t you ask you school’s guidance counselor. They will know how to offer you the best guidance. Fwiw, I would not take alg 2 DE bc it would be considered remedial, not college level.

Fwiw, I still believe you are going to face tremendous hurdles. Kids who graduate early and apply to college are competing for admissions with students who have had 4 full yrs to graduate. Adcoms will not lower expectations bc you opted for 3 yrs instead of 4. Students applying to the schools on your list are going to have much stronger transcripts. That is simple reality.

7

Just curious, OP. Why are you retaking the chemistry subject test if you have an 800 in it? And why would you take the ACT again? A 35 is a great score.

8

I meant to say that I’m (Re-taking) the Sat 2 Literature test, and my mom wants me to retake the ACT to try to score a 36. @sbjdorlo

9

Why? I work as a private college consultant, and I would not advise that, nor would I advise to retake a 780 Literature test. Far better you should beef up the rigor of your curriculum. Your test scores are terrific! I’m not sure who’s giving you advice. I’m also guessing you are a URM. Your test scores are very, very strong for any candidate, and particularly for someone in an underrepresented group.

My oldest son was a URM and had a 730 on the Lit. No way did he retake. He got into all his schools including a couple of Ivies and MIT. My middle son, not a URM, got a 710 on the Lit. No way did he retake. He got into an Ivy. No reason to retake your fine scores.

And you can just submit the ACT score and leave off the SAT. Absolutely zero reason to retake it even if you have a low writing score on ACT.

I would definitely encourage you to take hard courses; go for higher level math-up to Calculus maybe, and AP Level Lit with such a strong Lit subject test. If you want to take college classes, take calculus and some freshman English lit or AP lit.

Not sure who’s giving you advice, but it seems a bit off to me. But that’s just me! :slight_smile:

BTW, if you have good essays and you and/or your counselor can write about why you want to graduate early, that may help soften admissions towards your weaker course rigor. Make it good! :slight_smile:

10

From my discussions with college counselors the biggest problem with virtual students is lack of interactive classroom experience. As one counselor said to me, you can be the smartest person in the world but if your classes are all online, then we don’t know if you can handle a class room environment.

For the above reason, I would take as many DE classes as your school and CC allow in the first semester of your final year. The reason for this is so that schools can see you first semester grades before they make acceptance decisions.

I would take the science course as a first choice for DE. This is for two reasons, first it shows that you have experience with group work (labs) and it shows that you have actually taken wet labs. Many online providers don’t offer a wet lab option. Not sure about yours, but I know here in CA, the UCs don’t accept some of the virtual science courses for that reason.

I would not waste precious time with the ACT or Lit retake. You will soon find out that the actual college application procedure will take up much of your time, and that time is limited. There simply are not enough hours in the day to do it all.

11

@sbjdorlo I’m unable to take Calculus, AP Calculus A/B or an AP English course. The prerequisites for calculus are pre-calc/trig or honors pre-calc / trig. (which I’m just taking this year.)

the prerequisites for AP English literature or AP English language, are British Literature or Honors Brit lit, which I won’t be done with until second semester/ (my final semester) I’m taking the Highest level of Math, Science, and English courses, offered to me, as a student with an early graduation status, and the highest science course I can take is AP Chemistry which I’m also unable to take because of the strict 8 credits an academic school year policy.

Is it reasonable to take Calculus during my first semester when I’ll also be concurrently enrolled in ONLY H.S. Algebra 2 and second semester I will only be in H.S Pre-Calc/Trig. Could I take Calculus while also taking Algebra 2? (given the placement test…of course) How do you think that would look to admissions officers? I’m concerned that they’ll look right pass it, I mean really? “what H.S Student takes College Calculus the same semester as H.S. Algebra 2… an ambitious one or one who only wanted the course to be considered for admissions.” it’s a rhetorical question but this is what I’m imagining admissions officers saying when they review my application.what do you think? @sbjdorlo and @LKnomad

12

My son who is heading to college as a math major and who took Calc 2 DE said you simply cannot take alg 2 and calc together. You need one for the other. You also need to complete trig. Both are pre-recs.

So no. You won’t be able to take Calc

13

@SprbMea123 You cannot take those courses because you don’t have the prerequisite knowledge base. You already realize that.

Since you aren’t physically in school around other students, you should take time to understand how college applications work and how students are compared by adcoms. Early graduation rarely works in favor of the student. I know you don’t want to hear it and you say you have no option, but that is not going to change how your transcript is viewed. Having a solid understanding of how the process works will only benefit you in gauging where to apply and having better options come spring.

Your transcript is going to be compared exactly to students with 4 yrs of high school. All of those AP and upper level DE classes you cannot take bc you don’t have the pre-reqs will be on the transcripts of your peers bc they took 4 yrs to graduate. You will not be given a pass bc you opted to graduate in 3 yrs. This is a conversation that takes place amg parents of accelerated students all the time when those students want to apply to super competitive schools. Will my student be at a disadvantage by graduating early? The answer is always how does their transcript compare to students who didn’t.

For some students, early graduation still means cal BC, multivariable, diffEQ, multiple AP sciences, AP histories, and languages, etc. Their applications will be on even footing with their peer applicants.

Schools like Cornell and Chicago are going to have applicants with 7-15 APs as the norm, not the exception. The big picture of the competition for admissions at super competitive schools are kids who have done things like take alg as 6th or 7th graders or foreign language in middle school with AP foreign language in high school, taken classes DE during summer, and graduating with math classes beyond cal BC, AP English sr yr, 1 AP science at least by sr yr, etc. A step down in admissions competition will be alg as 8th graders or doubling up on geometry and alg 2 in high school and still getting to cal by 12th.

Only when you get to you avg less competitive schools are no APs and no advanced classes going to be the norm amg the students. Taking 1 or 2 DE classes your sr yr with the majority of your classes avg high schools classes will not make up for the void.

Graduating early is not a bad thing as long as you understand how it impacts your application and you apply to schools wisely and appropriately. Several schools on your list are good choices.

14

Do you have to graduate early due to a family issue, are putting ‘aging out’, or is it because you declared you would sophomore year ?
Another issue is that have the PSAT in October and could do very well, but it may not count if you graduate this year - and there go dull tuition and full ride scholarships.
In any case, I’d advise you take DE classes each semester because the strength of your curriculum I’ll be seen as lacking - English composition both semesters, a foreign language both semesters, (college level 2 +3, which will count as equivalent to high school level 4), one lab science or two, one history, one other social science, one art/art hqotory/music appreciation. It’ll strengthen your application.
You should add Muhlenberg, Pitt (do NOT apply with the quick App, complete the essays, you’d qualify for honors and scholarships), perhaps Penn State (match/ safety depending on major) and Schreyer (high reach), definitely Haverford , Skidmore, and Dickinson for reaches.
You have a full tuition guaranteed scholarship at U Alabama as well as guaranteed admission to their honors college.
By the way, no need to retake your tests. Once you’ve reached 700-750, adcoms move on to other parts of your application.

15

Do you have to graduate early due to a family issue, are ‘aging out’, or is it because you declared you would sophomore year ?
Another issue is that have the PSAT in October and could do very well, but it may not count if you graduate this year - and there go dull tuition and full ride scholarships.
In any case, I’d advise you take DE classes each semester because the strength of your curriculum will be seen as lacking - English composition both semesters, a foreign language both semesters, (college level 2 +3, which will count as equivalent to high school level 4), one lab science or two, one history, one other social science, one art/art hqotory/music appreciation. It’ll strengthen your application.
Have you run the NPC on your colleges, and discussed budget with our parents?
You should add Muhlenberg, Pitt (do NOT apply with the quick App, complete the essays, you’d qualify for honors and scholarships), perhaps Penn State (match/ safety depending on major) and Schreyer (high reach), definitely Haverford , Skidmore, and Dickinson for reaches.
You have a full tuition guaranteed scholarship at U Alabama as well as guaranteed admission to their honors college.
By the way, no need to retake your tests. Once you’ve reached 700-750, adcoms move on to other parts of your application.

16

@MYOS1634 yes, I am graduating early because at the end of this year, I’ll be 18 / “aging out”

17

Do virtual schools make you age out? With the amount of red shirting (having a child postpone kinder for one year) that goes on in traditional schools, I imagine that many students start their senior year as 18 year olds.

18

I was wondering about that, too, @@lknomad. Not only red shirting, but people moving from one state to another. Depending on the state start date, some of kids kids should technically be in different grades. I can see being 19 before sr yr as a problem, but not 18.

19

In the county where my sons homeschooled, if I remember correctly, you do not age out until you are 19.

20

Never heard of aging out at 18, particularly if you’re only a junior. Wish I knew the real story here.