<p>We were founded nearly over 170 years ago as a non-hazing, non-secretive fraternity. But you're correct, all fraternity members; including all but two preseides since 1825, members of the senate and congress, the countless CEO's..., are a bunch of degenerates who'll never amount to anything.</p>
<p>and just for fun, the GPA of Greek students at Dartmouth is higher than that of non-Greeks...</p>
<p>We know how that Gee, Mrs. Cleaver GPA game is played. Any frat boy who has a poor GPA is put on chapter probation. He can still hang out and binge drink, but his GPA is not included in the frat "average". </p>
<p>Thus, the accurate statement is that the GPA of Greeks, minus all Greeks with poor GPAs, is higher than the GPA of all students, including those with poor GPAs.</p>
<p>i can tell i'd be better talking to a wall, i'm sorry you didn't get a bid when you rushed or for whatever your reason is for hating GLO. my next shotgun will be thinking of you...</p>
<p>If he does get a minor in possession the good news is he will be required to get alcohol counseling which is available at every college and it can be a good thing to get a relationship established as a freshman with the college alcohol counselor. They usually are well liked by the students and can make a difference. What concerns me the most is that there is an expectation of this not having consequences. That would be the worst thing to happen for your son's sake. It probably won't matter to the college. I have a junior and a senior who just graduated and I will say that for the most part alcohol looses it's interest in the later part of college as students become more invested in their future and it looses it's novelty. Some of my kid's friend who never drank at all in high school and whom I admired greatly have gone crazy in college and are still at it as an important part of their lives even as upper classmen. A minor in possession will most likely be dropped with counseling if it is a first offense. If your son is going to drink in college it will not matter the distance of the school but I too would not want to pay and go into debt if partying is going to be more important then studying. You know your child though and can work that out with him and determine his attitude going in. Sorry you are having to deal with this during what should be a time of celebration.</p>
<p>interesteddad- Have you compared the fraternity drinking stats to those of the student paper or the Latin club? I'm sure these are statistics that are compiled. I have to say that in high school, my group of high-achieving marching band friends (including myself) drank as much as anyone else, and probably more.
Fraternities are a SOCIAL organization and there is a lot of drinking because there are a lot of social events. I don't think you can compare apples to oranges here.
Also, the worst alcohol offender at one of my son's private high schools went to Swarthmore (OMG- they actually DO drink there!!). He had been kicked out of the high school. I guess he figured he didn't need frats or a bunch of knuckle dragging athletes around him to continue his drinking. (For those of you newer forum members, interesteddad believes Swarthmore students are at a higher level than the all the Ollie the Town Drunks that inhabit the other colleges)</p>
<p>Oops, MOWC. It's Otis the town drunk, which is what Biffy and Buffy are going to turn into at every college except Swarthmore. Where angels reside.</p>
<p>^^ HaHa. It's too late for me to edit. Well, maybe Ollie is Otis's cousin (in a different fraternity) and teammate on the lacrosse team.</p>
<p>Back to the OP (and leaving out the frat v. no frat discussion): Some are assuming that this incident shows an "inexperience with alcohol." One thing that really bothers me is that your son said that he was drinking before he got to the school field trip. Now, even if this were an overnight trip, most school trips leave at the latest in the early afternoon. That means he was already drinking in the morning. To me, that is a real red flag that there is a problem here. I'm no stickler for the "only after 5 PM rule", and I have been known to have a glass of wine with lunch (well over the legal drinking age), but the only people that I know who drink that early in the day, and then continue to drink to get drunk are those who have problems. I'd say that your son may, in fact, have a real problem with alcohol.</p>
<p>If you do send him to college, whether far away or close by, I would suggest that you have him sign a blanket release, to be given to the registrar, the Dean of Students, the Dean of Freshmen, and the Health Center allowing them to contact you should any incidents involving alcohol occur, and allowing them to speak to you when you call about any topic you wish to discuss. Trust has been broken; there needs to be absolute transparency from your son to you. If he balks at signing, then you don't pay tuition. Harsh, yes, but much less harsh than having the first call you get be the one that says he's been expelled or is hospitalized or worse.</p>
<p>^terrific advice.</p>
<p>Okay, a couple of thoughts from a nondrinker (both then and now) who went off to college at a good-sized state university where alcohol was prevalent and very accessible, and back when the drinking age in that state was 18:</p>
<p>I had friends in high school who went down the wild path while in high school, but made a distinct decision when they went to college to stay away from the alcohol and parties. Granted, they were female students, and I do feel that social pressures are greater on their male counterparts to fit in and be part of the socially-accepted culture of parties and alcohol, but it can be done. Our young men and women must make this decision for themselves, though, and if we as parents force the issue, they will still rebel. I just want to point out that kids can change and become responsible young adults when we hold them and they hold themselves to higher expectations and standards. </p>
<p>That said, I have recently learned that the frontal lobe of the brain does not fully mature in young men until about the age of 24. This is the part of the brain that deals with risk behaviors which somewhat explains why our teenage sons do some stupid things. They don't stop to think about the consequences of actions at that moment and time, rather they leap toward the here and now without thinking. This is certainly not an excuse, but it does give me some comfort in knowing that kids may eventually grow out of their bad behaviors.</p>
<p>Another question I have is where were the chaperones on this trip that these kids got so much alcohol into their systems that adults did not know what was going on??? I have both been on and chaperoned high school trips myself, and the only time alcohol was used by minors, it was caught and dealt with quickly - on a high school 4-H trip to Washington D.C., one delegate who was of legal drinking age at the time was caught drinking and sent home via airline at his parents' expense. Just a few years ago, a boy was sent home from our band camp for taking vodka in his suitcase. Granted kids are sneaky, but chaperones know to be on the lookout for these situations, even among the brightest and best of the bunch.</p>
<p>And lastly, at LEAST this happened while he was still in high school where his family was made aware of the potential problems before going off to college. Can mom totally control or trust him? No. But there is the possibility for intervention prior to heading off on his own. If this had happened once he was 3000 miles away, mom may never have known about it. He will still have to be responsible for his own decisions, and mom may have to administer some tough love. </p>
<p>I do feel for you being a single mom, I know that can't be easy. But I guarantee you, your son cares more about what you think of him than he may let on. Pride may keep him from showing it, but I will venture to say he feels ashamed and scared right now himself. And mom, you have permission to be disgusted with him and to let him know it will take much to rebuild your trust in him. You are obviously a caring, loving mom or you would not have asked for such advice. Hang in there, we are all pulling for you and your son for the best outcome for his learning curve. Thank goodness for grace and second chances!</p>
<p>"and just for fun, the GPA of Greek students at Dartmouth is higher than that of non-Greeks..."</p>
<p>There is no relationship between intelligence and incipient alcoholism, so (other than less study time), there is no inherent reason why this shouldn't be so. Alcoholics are not stupid; they're alcoholics.</p>
<p>"We were founded nearly over 170 years ago as a non-hazing, non-secretive fraternity. But you're correct, all fraternity members; including all but two preseides since 1825, members of the senate and congress, the countless CEO's..., are a bunch of degenerates who'll never amount to anything."</p>
<p>No. Some of them will be alcoholic Presidents (one who can't remember whether he ever used cocaine - speaking of "blackouts"), Senators and Congresspeople, CEOs, etc. And some won't be. But the relationship between fraternity membership and alcohol and drug use is already well demonstrated, though it cannot be said whether it is membership that encourages use, or simply that alcohol/drug users are attracted to fraternities.</p>
<p>
[quote]
Have you compared the fraternity drinking stats to those of the student paper or the Latin club? I'm sure these are statistics that are compiled. I have to say that in high school, my group of high-achieving marching band friends (including myself) drank as much as anyone else, and probably more.
[/quote]
</p>
<p>No, I have not looked at the binge drinking rates for marching band members.</p>
<p>We know that fraternities have the highest correlation with binge drinking. I believe I've read studies that show two activities correlating with low binge drinking rates: academic engagement and community service. As with fraternities, it's impossible to know if these activities promote more moderate drinking or if they simply attract students less likely to be drunks in the first place.</p>
<p>PS: You lost me on your Swarthmore rant. Swarthmore has fraternities, allthough I'm struggling to find the relevance to this thread either way.</p>
<p>The point is that it takes a big "benefit of the doubt" for a parent to have anything to do with funding an education wtih fraternity membership under any circumstances. Once a high schooler has been caught binge drinking, I wouldn't even entertain the notion. Join a fraternity; no tuition, no room and board, no insurance. Nothing. End of the line. It's like a gambling addict joining a weekly poker game.</p>
<p>The reason I brought it up is that most OOS public universities have fraternities and a binge-drinking high school male is very likely to consider membership, if not just automatically assume that will be his social life on campus. It's an issue that has to be dealt with up front and may be the issue that brings a whole raft of drinking, social, college issues to the forefront. It wouldn't surprise me if a kid said, "OK, if I can't join a fraternity, I don't want to go to college". At least that would tell the parents not to waste their money.</p>
<p>
[quote]
Swarthmore has fraternities
[/quote]
all two of them, and no sororities...</p>
<p>Yes. That's correct. The students voted to abolish the sororities in the 1930s because they wouldn't accept Jewish students as members. </p>
<p>The last campus vote to abolish fraternities was in the 1950s, led by a Greek American kid from Boston named Michael Dukakis. Since surviving that vote, the frats has declined from five to two due to lack of interest.</p>
<p>But, that's neither here nor there in terms of issues the original poster has to deal with.</p>
<p>I think you can drink just as much at an OSS public in the dorms as at a fraternity. I wiped out all the kids on my freshman year dorm floor making my family's secret recipe for Union League Punch. We mixed it up in a trashcan.<br>
Rice doesn't have fraternities and there was certainly plenty of drinking there, and the school is NOT known as a huge party school. Even my very responsible daughter (responding to my concerns about the level of her brother's partying at his Ivy) says, "It's college!" It is an age-group thing and NOT a fraternity-thing or choice-of-school-thing.</p>
<p>
[quote]
But, that's neither here nor there in terms of issues the original poster has to deal with.
[/quote]
</p>
<p>neither are your anti-Fraternity half truthes and worked stats. it's pretty obvious, to me atleast, you're anti-Greek life; i'm sure it stems deeper than the "facts" you presesnt. </p>
<p>if you go to college, you can drink. you can drink a lot. looks like her son already knows how to get smashed, he did that just fine on his own.</p>
<p>
[quote]
...looks like her son already knows how to get smashed, he did that just fine on his own.
[/quote]
</p>
<p>You seem to be suggesting here that mom should just go ahead and cut the purse strings now, based on his high school binge drinking.</p>
<p>Part of me agrees with that, however, my softer side is looking for a way to send a tough love message to the kid and give him an opportunity to warrant investing huge sums of money in his college education. As a parent, my first ground rule for that effort would be NO FRATERNITIES. If he is not willing to live with that (having already been caught binge drinking in high school), then I tell him to do exactly as you suggest: let him drink "on his own".</p>
<p>Just to be clear: what I am "against" is spending $75k to $200k to support a kid with no investment in the opportunity college presents who views it as one big binge drinking party.</p>
<p>^^ This is my problem with many of your posts, ID. You seem to think that any college kid who drinks, or "binge drinks" on ANY occasion, must not care at all about his or her education. I am NOT supporting binge drinking and it scares me to death, but I am here to tell you that I have one of the most intellectual and engaged students around, and he is also totally into the alcohol-scene. He recently got a Kindle so he can read more newspapers and books, but he also knows how to over-indulge.</p>
<p>I wish you would stop pigeonholing all drinkers the way you do. I agree that binge drinking endangers one's education because it endangers one's LIFE, but it is absolutely not the case that all these college drinkers are just on their campuses to get wasted. I've watched my son's friends study and I've watched the brightest and most dedicated Rice students get absolutely smashed at the annual spring college weekend (BeerBike).<br>
It's not mutually exclusive.</p>
<p>OK, I should tell you what transpired today regarding my son. We went in prepared for anything, to say anything. That was not needed. There was already a plan in place for situations like this. He had 2 options. One was a 5 day suspension, with that going on his transcript to college. If caught drinking, immediate expulsion. Second option was to attend a program involving 3 days at a different school in our district, that teaches them about drug/alcohol abuse. Also 10 hours community service, 5 hours of alanon/alateen. I have to go to a parent class/meeting next week. And 8 one hour meetings over the course of 8 weeks. If any of those things are not met, back to the 5 day suspension. If everything is fulfilled nothing goes on his transcript to college, he gets to walk with his class, etc. He can't go back to regular classes till all of this is fulfilled and finals will be taken in his in school suspension. He will get to present a final project in one class next week. All of his teachers are aware. He chose the second option. I hope this is what he needs. Do I think he will completely stop drinking when he gets to college? No, but I think he will realize there are consequences to his actions. I will continue to support him. If there are further incidences like this in college, I won't support him. Hopefully this will be a severe wake-up call for him. There are other consequences for him at home also, such as loss of car, no going out, etc. We will make it through this one way or another. Thanks for all of your support.</p>