Sex in Class !!!!!!! Nooooooo!!!!!

Parents Forum
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<p>“We don’t have heat cycles.”</p>

<p>Some would disagree. We don’t call it “heat” and human cycles are somewhat different than other mammals’ cycles. However, we do have cycles of fertility and infertility.Human females do have certain physiological and chemical signs of fertility which make them more attractive to males and more receptive to sex during the fertile time (I won’t list them here). These signs would not be apparent in females using hormonal contraceptives. </p>

<p>(I tried to quote a study from Evolution and Human Biology, but it wouldn’t copy without asterisks in every word, so I deleted. If you Google “Do human females go into heat?” you’ll find it. It has to do with lap dancers at a strip club making much more $$ per shift during the fertile time of their cycles. And much less $$ during their periods. Dancers on the Pill showed no variation in income during the months of the study.)</p>

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<p>“to me that the fact that 1/3 of all women have a problem achieving orgasm makes the understanding of ways for a female to achieve orgasm worthy of study.”</p>

<p>Agreed…anything that will help them achieve summa cum louder is worth looking into.</p>

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<p>@ Bay…</p>

<p>“The reason for teaching abstinence is because it is the only 100% effective way to avoid pregnancy.”</p>

<p>It’s not exactly 100%, according to the Church…</p>

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<p>Lorem-</p>

<p>You are missing a fundamental point about Bailey or anyone else in that position. If Glenn Beck or some commentator goes off on trans people, they are doing so as a commentator, not as a so called expert. The problem with Bailey is not that he has opinions or beliefs, he can tell the world for all I care that trans people are fools, or gay people, or whatever, the problem is when he peddles belief as fact, and using shoddy and downright questionable research to claim expertise, that is the problem. You see this in the realm of climate science and global warming, where someone who is a scientist in some field claims that global warming doesn’t exist, and tries to use his position as ‘scientist’ as proof he or she knows what they are talking about. In one case, a prominent global warming denier was not a climatologist, but rather was a geologist, but claimed to be an expert on the subject even though he had never worked professionally in the field.</p>

<p>Bailey’s book that Donna was referring to was a mass market book not a peer review research journal, but in writing it he made it seem like this was the result of a peer reviewed study. Imagine if you will if a history professor wrote a book denying the holocaust with the imprint that this was based on historical research, or if a prominent biologist wrote a mass market book denying evolution based on his beliefs, but tried to claim scientific validity for it, and you have the idea. </p>

<p>There was a case similar to this back in the 70’s when William Shockley, who won the nobel prize for the development of the transistor, promoted as scientific fact the idea that intelligence was race based. His books were written using pseudo research and statistical studies that seemed to be based in science, but were in fact tailoring stuff to fit his beliefs. The scientific community excoriated him but you can bet that this was used by racists of all kinds to try and prove how what they had said all along was true about blacks or whoever… and Bailey is worse, shockley was a physicist, not a geneticist or neuroscientist, Bailey is a professor of psychology at a major university…</p>

<p>I am not sure whether I would want my child to go to Northwestern or not, but I understand why someone might not want their kid there. On the other hand, if my son wanted to go to a school, no matter how prestigious, and they had a professor doing research and promoting the idea that the earth was 6000 years old and created as it is today, I would probably not want him to go there because that is not science, it is religion masquereding as sciencce, and as the ultimate consumer, well, that is my choice. I realize what tenure is about (said professor could get tenure with legitimate science and then go nuts later on, for example), and I realize the point of it, that views are supposed to be protected, but if a professor was granted tenure based on creationist science work, it would be as bogus to me as granting tenure to a professor of alchemy or astrology (not as a historian, but promoting those as science). The thing about ideas and beliefs is they have their cost, and while I think tenure is a good thing, for a number of reasons, I also think there is a burden on them, and that if someone abuses that, there should be consequences, and I also think that education is a service industry and people have the right to choose what they think is best. </p>

<p>Both Bailey and the idiot promoting holocaust denial have the right to their opinions, but with Bailey it isn’t just his opinions, I would fight to the death him having those, it is that he is passing those beliefs off as scientific study and done in ways that violate ethical and standards of research, for that tenure should have seriously been challenged. At least with the other idiot, he is not a professor of History, I seem to recall he was a technical professor, so there is no implication he is speaking as a trained historian.</p>

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<p>Atom-
Human beings libido have ups and downs and yes, during the women’s fertility period they put off pheremones and such that can drive desire for them up. But that is quite different then a heat cycle in most other animals, human beings, along with Dolphins and Bonabos, are some of the few species not bound by heat cycles. Other animals only have sex when they go into heat, and males are only attracted to females when their heat cycle is on, there is a big difference, human beings were given the gift of having sex outside the fertility period of the female (and NFP, or natural family planning, that the Church allows tells couples to have sex when the women isn’t fertile specifically). It is not coincidental that Dolphins and Bonabos are near the top of the animal intelligence scale and the fact that they can have sex outside of heat cycles, and do, it is very unique, both of them appear to have sex for recreational reasons in similar ways to humans. The pheremone rush during a women’s fertility cycle is a vestige of our evolution I would guess, before man evolved past a certain stage, and isn’t a big surprise. No one would argue that the pleasure of sex evolved for procreation, but in mankind it evolved well beyond that as man evolved, and to argue that sexuality has to be tied to procreation alone is IMO to be putting man at the level of lower animals, which is something we are not.</p>

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<p>*. We don’t call it “heat” and human cycles are somewhat different than other mammals’ cycles. However, we do have cycles of fertility and infertility.Human females do have certain physiological and chemical signs of fertility which make them more attractive to males and more receptive to sex during the fertile time (I won’t list them here). These signs would not be apparent in females using hormonal contraceptives. *</p>

<p>Hormone levels vary between time of month- point of lifespan, time of year etc.- this is a new idea?
:confused:</p>

<p>That discussion reminds me of this.

;)</p>

<p>& did you know animals can have false pregnancies?
My cat who already had one litter ( but I hadn’t gotten her altered yet) had " relations" with several neighborhood lothario’s. At the appropriate time and after getting appropriately larger, she seemed to go into labor, but nothing was happening so I took her to the vet- quite worried.
It apparently had been a false pregnancy! :confused: :confused: :confused:
After that I didn’t waste any time scheduling her surgery-</p>

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<p>07dad–I think your trying to justify everything that people do as being “educational”. This particular demonstration seems to victimize the psychologically fragile couple for the education/enjoyment of the students/teacher. I am sure if you were to look into the past of the participants you might find some dark stuff (I don’t know that, its just an assumption).</p>

<p>There are all sorts of fetishes people have for whatever reason. Would you condone a demonstration of “scat sex”? I believe that is also 100% within the definition of the class topic. I am sure it would provoke quite a discussion!</p>

<p>I know no one on this forum would ok pedaphilia as it is so blatantly victimizes children (and is illegal).But what about blatantly victimizing people who are mentally ill? Just because they’re over 18 doesn’t mean they should be engaging in a dangerous sex act (fetish of no fetish) in front of a crowd. They should have been psychologically tested ahead of time (what if their was some psychological damage done to the woman because of this demonstration–will NU be legally responsible?), the school should have been informed ahead of time for liability reasons, and the students should have been given enough information and time to make an informed decision. The fact that this wasn’t done shows at the least that the professor is incompetent. Any psychologists knows there are ethical standards that must be adhered to when working with human (as well as animal) subjects.</p>

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<p>Emeraldkitty, on a related note (but totally irrelevant to this thread), I once had a cat that was a situational lesbian. I didn’t get her fixed so rarely let her out, and when she was in heat she’d go after the other female cat, who was happy to oblige.</p>

<p>And I tend to agree with mtnmomma on the psychological aspect, especially if she claimed she could ONLY come when being watched.</p>

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<p>“The reason for teaching abstinence is because it is the only 100% effective way to avoid pregnancy.”</p>

<p>I’m pretty sure homosexuality and hysterectomy are 100%, too.</p>

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<p>Hanna-
So are vasectomy, anal sex and oral sex, not to mention good old petting. The goal of the abstinence only crowd is pretty plain, it is anti sex, because the same people that promote that had a candidate for the surgeon general have to drop out, because she suggested that masturbation be taught in sex ed classes… it has little to do with pregnancy or STD’s and everything to do with promoting sex inside marriage only. The same people generally are in favor of sodomy laws, making gay sex and certain forms of adult sexuality illegal, including the use of sex toys. Personally, I think that teenagers having sex has its problems, and I favor a modified form of Abstinence Plus that encourages kids to remain celibate until they are older and can deal with the consequences, but also gives them real information, like masturbation is perfectly normal and such. </p>

<p>Note I am not promoting anal sex or oral sex as alternatives to vaginal sex, especially for teenagers, just saying that they are frowned upon by the abstinence only type of crowd and they guaranteed don’t lead to pregnancy.</p>

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<p>mtnmomma-</p>

<p>What makes you think the couple is emotionally or psychologically fragile? People have all kinds of fetishes and things that attract them sexually, are all of them damaged? Likewise, this couple may be perfectly normal other then they have interests other people don’t. I have read studies that were done of people in ‘alternative’ sexual communities, and the overwhelmingly large number of them are perfectly well adjusted people,and in general the average level of education and intelligence is higher then the norm <em>shrug</em>. Claiming victimhood in this case is like DA’s who prosecute the dominant partner in an S/m relationship, their assumption is that the other partner must be a victim, because after all, who would choose to do these kind of things? It is one of the reason we need effective classes in sexuality, there are a lot of taboos out there that end up getting perfectly happy adults, who choose whatever they are into, in trouble with those who choose to believe the myths and such. I didn’t read the full citing on this couple, but did the woman say she only could get off if being watched, or did she say it was turn on.</p>

<p>Yes, I am sure there are emotionally damaged people in alternative sexual communities, but guess what, there are in the straight community, too. Lots of people who have been abused, or otherwise bear the results of trauma, but that doesn’t mean everyone who has sex is abused or fragile, and fetishes and such are not classified as psychological disorders unless they interfere with normal life, where the reach a level where it interferes with living life.</p>

<p>What I have a problem with with their performance is in effect they forced their fetish on others, that they get off on a scene like that and choose to do it in a class environment. It is very different doing this in other contexts, where people who are there know what they are going to see/experience, this is very different, and in a class setting it is basically non consensual viewing in the sense that those who stayed weren’t expecting that. I don’t think the kids in the class were traumatized or harmed particularly, but I think the couple doing that showed an incredible lack of tact or understanding for what they were doing.</p>

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<p>Musicprnt, thank you for that detailed and well-reasoned explanation. I have not read Bailey’s book, but it does sound like the professor is more interested in generating self-publicity via controversy rather than via accolades from his peers. </p>

<p>The students at Northwestern are a smart bunch and hopefully most have learned enough to not take everything a professor says as gospel, even in one’s supposed field of expertise. Two history professors, one right-wing and one left-wing, can cover the same material very differently through selective use of source material. I would think that most NW students sign up for his lower-level class for its entertainment value rather than its cutting-edge scientific knowledge. Psych and sociology majors, who might one day need to directly interact with members of the trans community should have plenty of opportunity in their senior classes to re-exam the issues with hard peer-reviewed data.</p>

<p>Now it could turn out that the current publicity stunt will get the administration to carefully review ethical lapses and other legitimate reasons for dismissal. But bad theories and over-the-top showmanship are probably not grounds for terminating a tenured professor.</p>

<p>My son has an application pending at Northwestern and heard about this controversy on the local news. He just shrugged his shoulders. He loves his high school and its staff despite the fact that there are a few bozos who teach there – Northwestern is entitled to its share of bozos, too, which shouldn’t diminish the reputation of the school overall.</p>

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<p>“that doesn’t mean everyone who has sex is abused or fragile”</p>

<p>Yep. It also doesn’t mean that abused/fragile people don’t have the right and the ability to make their own decisions. Abuse survivors don’t forfeit their sexual autonomy to those of us who were never assaulted. We may think we have better judgment, and we may think they’re making a mistake, but it’s not our job to make that call for other adults.</p>

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<p>Mtnmomma, how are you concluding that this couple was mentally ill? There is nothing in the story to suggest that they weren’t fully aware of what they were asking the professor to have them demonstrate, that they were willing (too willing!) participants.</p>

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<p>Did any of the 100 students videotape this demo? Would YouTube allow it on their site?</p>

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<p>What makes you so sure they are not? People don’t normally put reciprocating saws into their vagina’s in front of a group of college students just so they can get off. So although I may be completely wrong, it is probably more likely than not that there are some mental health issues. This is why they should have been screened before hand. </p>

<p>I don’t believe that people that don’t follow the norm are all mentally ill, I do think when it is quite extreme behavior the possibility is there. It’s sort of like all the press that Charlie Sheen has been getting–the press/public is benefiting at the expense of his mental health issues.</p>

<p>I would say that in the case of this young lady there is probable cause to think she may have some psychological issues–The professor has a responsibility to ensure she doesn’t. Otherwise he may be exploiting her fetish for his personal gain.</p>

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<p>NU’s President’s post from earlier today:</p>

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<p>Candidly, this passionate power saw incident did not do anything to tarnish the NU “brand.” Applicants are probably unaware of it or don’t care. </p>

<p>I’ve looked on line for a video, NADA. I’ve seen a picture of a saw they claimed to be “like” the one modified for personal pleasure. Pizzagirl would be able to tell you whether the distance from the seats to the stage would make explicit photos difficult or impossible.</p>

<p>Be aware, if you google image “sex with machines” you will get an eyeful of a myriad interesting gadgets.</p>

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<p>I guess I worded it pretty badly. I don’t know that they were/are mentally ill–I just suspect it is a possibility.</p>

<p>As with the Charlie Sheen case, the news was all over the tv, internet, etc and no one hinted that he didn’t know what he was doing or that he wasn’t willing (too willing). Just because he was arrogant and angry doesn’t mean he has a mental illness–but he was so over the top, it has led most to conclude he does.</p>

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<p>Good luck to your son. Perhaps he’ll join my son, who was accepted ED to the class of 2015 (and who was also spectacularly unimpressed by the controversy, which was probably played a bit harder here in Chicago than in other locales).</p>

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<p>There are some professors and other authority figures who take an inappropriate pleasure in introducing children and young people to adult themes, adult behaviors, forbidden pleasures, and the sordid things of the world. These figures consider themselves more enlightened than other adults, and therefore presume that, as such, they have a duty to help youths grow up, lose their naivete, not be inhibited, etc. More often than not, it’s self-indulgent, arrogant, and sickening on the part of the adult.</p>

<p>I remember when an older man tried to get my little boy to take a puff of his cigar; he thought it would be cute. For some reason, this reminds me of that. My pre-teen now has a social studies teacher who thought it was a good idea to have her students read an article about the cannibalism of a young child, while her literature teacher selected a novel in which the handicapped are deemed useless, taken to a field and left to die. In addition, in this book, young children’s parents are murdered so the kids can be taken away, placed under the care of the very same murderer, and exploited for the good of the community. Why, I ask?</p>

<p>The young people in the NU class did not need to see this behavior first hand. The professor probably got off on their shock.</p>