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<p>That’s the norm in our area, too.</p>
<p>I did dual enrollment back when Washington allowed students to take a full load of high school courses and college course at any public college or university besides the University of Washington or the Evergreen State College for free. The limit is now something like 1.25 FTE combined, whereas I was doing 1.67 FTE (10 courses instead of 6 annually).</p>
<p>I only applied to schools which would accept most of my dual enrollment credit. The school I ultimately chose, an OOS public, accepted all my credits, with only 2-3 courses counting as elective instead of core curriculum requirements. </p>
<p>I agree with the advice to be careful about Satisfactory Academic Progress. 180 credits comes quickly when one enters with 60+ credits.</p>
<p>If possible, consider having your daughter take online community college classes. These are generally easier to schedule around a high school schedule.</p>
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<p>If credit unit limitations are a concern, it would be wise to check on the university’s policy on that, particularly with respect to transferred-in credit, before matriculating. Note that this sometimes applies also to AP credit, although less frequently than to college credit.</p>
<p>Getting into a “highly ranked university” and having the credits accepted are two very different things. Some private universities will not accept any dual enrollment credit. Many public universities will accept it as long as it’s in the same state. If your goal is to have the credits transfer then you need to check very carefully the policies of each school. You also need to determine if your student would be considered a transfer or a freshman.</p>
<p>In our area, dual enrollment is offered only at local community colleges and AP classes are considered to be much harder. In general, the top students do not do dual enrollment. Before you commit to a dual enrollment program, I would investigate very carefully the rigor of the courses being offered and how they will prepare your student for college. What is the college placement for this program? Have any students gone on to the type of universities your kid is interested in? If so, what do these students say about how the dual enrollment courses prepared them for college?</p>
<p>TwoTravelin, here is our experience - there are pros and cons to Dual Enrollment. Believe you are in Fl? Then tuition and books are paid for under Florida state law, a nice perk. My child is taking AP and DE, and the reason for taking AP wanted to have those specific teachers (very good). Reason for taking DE, did not want to basically repeat four years of HS classes in first two years of college (plus, ran out of advanced classes to take at HS). For the most part classes at cc (which is now becoming a 4 year college) have been awesome (one really bad stat teacher but one teaching AP Stat at HS not much better!). So in our experience, rigor of AP and DE the same, depends on teacher!</p>
<p>However, if you are doing DE through your HS in Fl, in our district all classes that are being used to fulfill HS credit are reported to the HS and factored into your GPA. If you are over the required credits to graduate HS, they are still reported to the HS but not factored into GPA. So you might want to check that out. In Florida, you are still considered a First Time in College (FTIC) freshman even if you graduate HS with an AA degree. Fl has done exceptionally well in coordinating DE, and having a common course numbering system between ccs and 4 year university, so the course content taught in College Algebra (MAC 1105) is the exact same at cc level and state university level. If you do graduate HS with an AA degree, all state universities have to accept the entire degree. If you graduate with less than AA degree, most all of it will transfer but may not fulfill all required state university courses.</p>
<p>DE is not for everyone some HS students dont grasp that this is a college grade and may stay on their college record (depending on state/school). No reminders from the professor to turn in homework! You cant have a parent/teacher conference (well, guess you could try and get some raised eyebrows!!). And if you are going out of state, your classes that you took as a DE student you may not get credit for if you also used them to fulfill HS credit. Same thing with AP, some colleges accept, some dont. So you may end up repeating those courses at college. If that is not a concern, then definitely DE is a valuable experience. My child (now a senior) very glad to have taken DE simply for the fact of having college class experience, not to mention NOT having to repeat US History for the fourth time!! </p>
<p>Cant say whether this will help getting into a particular/high ranked school, but DE students are looked upon very favorably in FL either as freshman or transfer students (more likely to graduate in four years). Many HS students from our district go to college with first year classes knocked out. Hope the info helps somewhat, good luck!</p>
<p>We are in Florida and understand dual enrollment is free so costs are not a concern. For us this is a big decision and everyone’s opinions are very valuable. We are at a highly ranked high school but the dual enrollment school is also highly ranked within the state. I know if my child’s goal was to stay in Florida the choice would be easy. However, like many others, leaving Florida for college is very attractive.</p>
<p>If your child stays at the current school, what are the specific course options compared to the dual enrollment?</p>
<p>My son graduated back in 2009. In high school he took both AP exams and college courses to supplement the courses at his IB school. The college courses didn’t go on his high school transcript. He had a separate college transcript on which he was listed as a “guest matriculant.” He had no trouble applying to good colleges being accepted as a freshman. Like one of the posters above, he got plenty of credit at MIT, and this has helped him graduate with a double undergraduate major and a masters in engineering.</p>
<p>My younger son has the courses he needs for his interests at his high school, so no college courses for him during the school year. In my mind it all comes down to learning the things you want to learn at a price you are willing to pay. I wouldn’t overthink it too much.</p>
<p>I guess the 2 questions you really need to ask is if your child does “just” AP, will the GC look at that as the most rigorous class schedule. If not, then taking the DE is a must. If yes, then I wouldn’t take the DC classes unless s/he really wants to. Second question is what are the chances your child will stay in FL for school? If that is none, don’t take them unless s/he really wants to.</p>
<p>DE or college courses may be “needed” if the student is advanced enough in a subject to want to go beyond the AP level while still in high school. Math is probably the most common subject where this situation is encountered, since there now seem to be more than a few students completing AP calculus BC as high school juniors or earlier.</p>
<p>My child’s current high school is rigorous with 3-4 APs required per year. This dual enrollment program also requires 3 APs per year but primarily in the social sciences, therefore the dual enrollment courses will be primarily additional social sciences, math and science - this is where are hesitation are.</p>
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[QUOTENewHavenCTmom–do those classes replace a required class at their high school though?]
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<p>@ SteveMa–No, they are NOT supposed to replace a class that can be taken at school. But I don’t think they check to be honest. Many kids do take classes at the local community college, but whats the sense in that when they have the other colleges available to them? This particular CC is not known for its rigor whatsoever. </p>
<p>UCB. You have me thinking… there is an option for seniors to finish up at their high school in December and then begin taking classes at University of New Haven starting in January of their senior year. I always was of the mindset that this was a good thing for the student. But does that put them behind that 8 ball when it comes to scholarships et al?</p>
<p>My D took community college dual enrollment and AP classes in high school. We understood that basically only the state university system would accept the dual enrollment classes and since she was looking to go to an out of state private, many of her dual enrollment credits would not transfer. Her school did accept her AP credits. </p>
<p>We had several ‘smile and not’ moments when people asked why didn’t she go to one of the state universities, get advanced placement and graduate at a younger age than her peers? Her father, D, and I discussed it and agreed that she needed to go where the good fit was and it wasn’t at one of the schools that would accept the DE classes. And, there were no good reasons for our D to have to be done with college a year or two early and many good reasons to have a 4 year college experience.</p>
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<p>Be careful about whether doing that causes the student to have to be a transfer applicant, as opposed to a freshman applicant, for ordinary college admissions. If the student actually graduates high school early and then takes college courses, that would likely cause the student to be viewed as a transfer applicant at most schools.</p>
<p>Having to apply as a transfer means that:
- The universe of schools with a realistic chance of admission is smaller, particularly in terms of private schools.
- Many public universities prefer junior level transfers who are ready to declare their majors, as opposed to transfers at other class levels.
- Large merit scholarships are less common for transfers.
- Private schools are often said to be less generous with financial aid for transfers.
- Course articulation may not be known beforehand if there is not a pre-made articulation agreement (most commonly between community colleges and in-state public universities).</p>
<p>NewHaven,</p>
<p>As UCB and GeekMom point out, be very careful about graduating your child and then having them take a college course after that. They will be considered a transfer student and will not be eligible for freshman scholarships.</p>
<p>OP,</p>
<p>Add my son to the list that did DE and is a student at MIT who received transfer credit for classes. We are homeschoolers, so our situation is different. My son did 55 community college units and about 19 audited univ. units (for which he did not receive an official transcript) in addition to 6 AP exams.</p>
<p>He got into schools such as Princeton, Penn, Caltech, Vandy, etc. I had not been expecting any of his units to transfer and so didn’t know any school’s policies regarding transfer credits (except Harvey Mudd which said they didn’t accept any), so it was a very pleasant surprise when all his math transferred and he was able to start in upper division classes. As another poster said, this will allow him to double major.</p>
<p>Even though transfer credit doesn’t matter to you, I’ll still advise you to keep the syllabuses of any DE classes. As well, make copies of the table of contents of the textbooks you student will use. MIT wanted to see these things and I had to scramble to gather the materials.</p>
<p>One other thing to consider about transferring the college credit – even if the school does not accept the credit for credit units, it may consider the previous course work for placement into more advanced courses.</p>
<p>Great advice everyone!</p>
<p>Thanks to UCB & SBJ.</p>
<p>Sorry to OP for hijacking thread.</p>
<p>I would add that I don’t think she will be actually graduating in December, she will walk with her class in June 2014 but just not there for the second half of the year. Not sure if that makes any difference or not. </p>
<p>Let me also add that she has been averse to the idea of leaving high school mid year to go to UNH. She does’t want to leave her friends so soon/lose out on the complete senior year experience. I am thinking that it might be best to leave well enough alone and let her stay? It might end up biting her in the butt in the long run from what you guys are saying. Thanks for the information. Its much appreciated.</p>
<p>NewHavenCTmom–let her stay in high school. Why the push to get out so fast? Spring senior year is usually fun with prom and all that “stuff”. I would hate for my kids to miss that. Like we have said, if the classes don’t replace high school classes, they are not considered DE classes–they need to show up on the HS transcript-otherwise she will be a transfer student and you will lose out on a lot more money over the years than you save for that one semester. I wouldn’t do it.</p>
<p>TwoTravelin-if just taking AP classes is rigor enough, I would skip the DE classes. It’s just not worth the hassle and potential damage to a college GPA should something happen on that class. DE isn’t all it’s cracked up to be—unless you plan to attend a state school and not go on to grad school, med school, etc. It’s a nice option if your school doesn’t have AP’s or you max out your classes junior year but to use them to replace AP’s just isn’t worth it.</p>
<p>My daughters took dual enrollment courses – by which I mean “college in the high school” courses – solely for the purpose of maximizing rigor in their HS curriculum. If our high school had offered more than 1-3 AP courses while my kids were in HS they would have taken them, but it did not. </p>
<p>We had the option of either paying tuition for the dual enrollment courses (which you needed to do in order to “earn credit”) or not pay. We chose not to pay since our daughters both wanted to go to college at out of state private colleges that did not accept DE credit. 95% of parents paid. While many of their children went on to use the credits at CC, SUNYs or a few in-state privates, many other parents later found to their chagrin that they had paid hundreds of dollars for “college credits” that could not be used. On the other hand, their kids were able to apply and earn acceptances for some colleges that would have been out-of-reach if they had taken regular Regents courses or low-level electives.</p>
<p>In our neck of the woods credits earned from community college courses taken AT the community college for which both HS and college credit are earned are called “early college.” The handful of students who petition to take this route generally plan to attend a local 2 or 4 year college after HS graduation.</p>