The Economist rankings are really bizarre in that they take “expected earnings” vs “median earnings” and if the latter is more than the former, the ranking is high as this is the “value added”. Nothing about the educational programs or types of jobs.
It is offensive to suggest that people that take the time to read and post here to assist people in trying to make these decisions are paid to promote certain schools. No evidence of that here. Posters take their time and put some effort into supporting and assisting those with questions.
OP- we all understand how much you are stressing about this. Most of the posters here have been in your exact shoes. We live in different parts of the country and our kids have different intellectual interests and goals, but we’ve all had those terrible “sit down at the kitchen table” moments where we look at our income, savings, outflow and the NPC from various colleges and wonder how it’s going to happen.
That is one of the reasons why many of the posters have encouraged you to cast a wider net geographically. You aren’t interested- and that’s your decision to make. But Pennsylvania really has a combination of great/terrible when it comes to higher education. Great in terms of variety, academic offerings, reputation, rigor. Terrible in terms of paying for it. So average folks often find much better and more cost effective opportunities outside the state. I’ve got a large family in various parts of Pennsylvania and not a single one of the “young cousins” (ages 19-30) went to college in-state. Combination of need based and merit aid made the out of state options just more feasible (none of them is an only child- so their parents were understandably reluctant to blow the budget on any single kid.) Between New Jersey, Delaware, Washington DC, Maryland, Ohio and Alabama, each kid got the “residential college” experience, even though it wasn’t 50 miles from home like their parents would have preferred. But the kids are able to pay off their student loans, nobody took out a second mortgage or sold a kidney, so it worked out.
And truth be told- college kids don’t come home nearly as often as you think they will! One of my kids spent zero summers at home once college began- between a travel fellowship (paid for by a departmental college) and jobs, internships, etc. coming home to go back to the HS minimum wage job just didn’t sound appealing (and certainly not good for the career). One of my others came home for two weeks after exams and then got a great job BACK in the college town- so back he went. So the travel expenses are really just for Thanksgiving and Christmas (none of my kids came back Spring break- that was for interviews for summer jobs, or staying at their campus jobs).
Thank you @ Portercat. The OP asked MYOS how they know so much(I did not see a response and I admit that I enjoy MYOS’s thoughts with the exception of the ongoing negativity towards PASSHE schools)…I don’t know if anyone responding works for Pitt, PSU or Slippery Rock…only they do. I never intended to be offensive, but the possibility remains that individuals could work for specific universities with an unintentional/intentional bias…so the advice/discussion pushes past the personal experience into the realm of work/employment/preservation. At the end of the day, everyone needs to make their own decision and I happen to believe that it is more about the individual than where they attend…that is just me…particularly when it comes down to the ridiculously large amounts of debt Pennsylvanians are acquiring for an undergraduate degree.
I enjoy the discussions/viewpoints of all on here…even if I do not agree.
I wish the OP best of luck and I am confident that the decision and effort will be worth it all in the end.
Looks like The Economist is trying to derive “expected earnings” for each college from selection effects (e.g. student qualifications, mix of majors, etc.). For example, a highly selective college with many engineering majors will have a higher “expected earnings” than a not-very-selective college focused on art or religion. The difference between that and “median earnings” of the college’s graduates would be the “value added” (presumed to be the college’s treatment effects, though unaccounted-for selection effects could still be present) to post-graduation pay levels.
I know what I know because I’ve been doing this for a long time. Pennsylvania is a tricky state because of its un-integrated public and semi public system. (Illinois is similarly expensive with few state grants bu it’s better integrated). To reassure anyone worried, I don’t work for any of the universities mentioned in the thread. My issue isn’t with the passhe schools themselves but rather with the legislature that cut their budget so much, going from a budget derived 20% from tuition to 80% from tuition or somesuch. Such cuts always impact the programs. My wish is for the people of Pennsylvania to elect a legislature that will restore funding.
But that doesn’t help @collegefrazzled, who needs good, cheap choices for his/her son now.
Right now, Pitt bradford is cheaper than ship and leads to a very strong school of engineering. Is that fair to Ship to point it out? Probably not …but Ship could have engineering scholarships and automatic scholarships for $8,000 a year and the discussion would be moot. So, the Pitt Bradford price is the one to beat. There’s YSU and UAkron just across Pittsburgh but it’s far. There’s York. There’s Pitt Johnstown. All cheaper than Ship.
I have no agenda. I have one at Pitt on scholarship and one most likely going to a PASSHE school.
Their choices are financial and major related.
I am convinced that both can get a good education.
My goal was to find affordable options for OP within PA and offering ABET accredited computer engineering.
We are calling the $7500 Pitt Bradford scholarship “automatic”, but the website says “may be eligible”. What else do they consider, or is it truly automatic?
Temple search proved unsuccessful.
There’s a program with co-op over 5 years through which OP’s son would likely make good money (erhaps enough to pay for his last year, which would make OP pay for 3 years… but that’s a best-case scenario solution ); overall costs are high and there’s no scholarship guidelines, just “from $3,000 to full tuition”. And there’s no “99% guaranteed admission” program like with Pitt Bradford and Pitt Main. The Ambler campus sounds more geared toward working adults and it offers mostly business-related degrees. http://bulletin.temple.edu/undergraduate/engineering/electrical-engineering/bs-electrical-engineering-computer-engineering-concentration-cooperative-education/#text
@bester1 You aren’t the only one who notices the negative remarks about the PASSHE schools, I see them as well.
And @MYOS1634, it’s all good as I know where your comments come from, it does get frustrating though, when in many cases, it is the only affordable option and there isn’t any love for them. :x
I also see so many parents, who so willingly go into great debt due to schools that are better ranked, and people pushing the fear button that their kids will never get a job upon graduation if they don’t.
@SwimmingDad Pitt doesn’t have to offer anything, as they have plenty of kids/parents willing to pay the price to attend there. S15 was top 2% of his class, 33 ACT, and was only offered $5K in merit. At that time, it was said that Pitt & PSU were more likely to offer generous aid to OOS students over IS. OP can certainly try, but probably a huge waste of time.
^Pitt (Swanson) will not offer anything because their merit is for top 1% scores only. It’s not an alternative, unfortunately, and they’re not private so there’s no negotiating. They have so many applicants, they don’t care.
@portercat: OP’s son is much higher than the stated requirements, so even if there’s a competition, he’s getting it. Not all kids with a 2.5 would though.
I called Pitt Bradford Admissions office today and confirmed my son would get a $7,500 scholarship. He would have to have a 3.0 GPA and a specific number of credits to transfer to the main campus. The big uncertainty is whether there Is space available at the main campus. He suggested that I talk to the Engineering program director so I sent him an email and left him a voicemail. The Admissions office also suggested that I check the Johnstown campus because it is probably cheaper than the main campus. He said this is a 4 year campus so he wouldn’t have to transfer to the main campus. I was just on their website and am trying to find out the cost and scholarship requirements. I haven’t found scholarship info yet. This may be in a post somewhere. Thanks for everyone’s help.
I didn’t realize that he wouldn’t have to transfer at the Johnstown campus. I didn’t know the branch campuses had engineering (BS).
That sounds like a real possibility as well, along with Ship, and York.
@Collegefrazzled Johnstown use to have the “technology” programs. They have transitioned to engineering, but doesn’t look like they are ABET accredited.
Though they claim to have a 99% placement rate, which is darn good, if true.
Bradford has the best scholarships though.
If OPs son fails to make a 3.0 he can transfer to Johnstown then. But his stats would place him at the top of the group at Bradford* so his likelyhood of Making it to Swanson are pretty good.
(* Academically both schools enroll peers but the difference is that Bradford is cheaper and has the transition to Pitt and it’s resouecesw ending with a Pitt degree).
Can an application be activated to both Bradford and Johnstown?
I just called Johnstown. He is better off here. He can get a $5,500 scholarship for 4 years as long as his GPA is 3.0. I am waiting for a callback to confirn he qualifies for this scholarship amount He can only have one active application. I didn’t realize they weren t accredited. That’s disappointing. Thank you so much for your help! I never would have thought of a branch campus!
Johnstown also has co-ops. I am going to email the engineering department to find out more about the program. I think my son will be happier here than at Bradford
I don’t know if I have this right, but aren’t a lot of kids who end up at these directionals there because they weren’t admitted to Pitt?
So @MYOS1634, I think you are right in that he should make it to Swanson if he does well at Bradford, & with the $7500 scholarship, it really does seem like the best course.
