http://www.ship.edu/Honors/Curriculum/Requirements/
He might not stick with engineering after all, this would give him an enriched opportunity to explore what interests him, and be able to study abroad.
College- big hug to you. This is complicated and confusing and I’m sure you guys have moved heaven and earth to get the best resources for your son.
But most families do NOT take on more debt than the federal loans (i.e. the parent plus loans). Most families do NOT tap their home equity for college. They figure out their budget- in your case, about 13-14K per year for four years which is your son taking on the federal loans, you guys kicking in 5K per year, plus his earnings. And then they figure out a college which will work taking into account academic needs and interests, budget, etc.
I am flummoxed that you’d rather take on a boat load of debt – which is going to take you years to get out from under- to keep him in Pennsylvania vs. looking at Toledo which could fall into your budget. I’m flummoxed that every time a poster suggests a way to make college work for your son you have a reason why it won’t work (he can’t visit, won’t go to Ohio, can’t do Honors because the classes might be too hard, will need guidance counselors to write an extra letter).
If you are looking for affirmation that taking on parent plus loans to send your son to Ship or Pitt Main you probably won’t get it here. But it’s your life and your money and of course, you can do whatever you want. But posters here are genuinely trying to help you find a good alternative to Pitt (your son’s first choice, which you can’t afford) via two years at a cheaper campus and then transferring to Pitt, or a four year college with the program he’s looking for with a lower sticker price.
But I don’t think anyone here thinks that your loans plus your son’s loans (those seem unavoidable) are a good idea. Stuff happens- a breadwinner gets downsized or injured, you have unexpected medical bills not covered by insurance, Grandma needs a fulltime aide but her long term care insurance only provides two hours a day, etc. So walking into a college decision knowing that you are already skating on thin ice seems to be a bad idea.
Especially with a son who is as smart and talented and hard-working as yours!
OP, Keep in mind that with a higher-stat student, you are in a better position with better options than many families in PA who have a similar financial profile but with a mid or lower stat student.
@blossom Stressful is a better word for this. Yes, we have looked at many resources but we are not done looking. BTW, I have looked into just about every poster’s suggestion. The other colleges (except for Ohio) were actually more expensive than Ship. Sorry, but I am not sending my son to Ohio where he is 14 hours away. I know I have to cut the apron strings but this would involve flying to Ohio because I refuse to drive 14 hours. If for some reason he would need to come home (emergency, family matter) it would be extremely difficult because of the distance. That’s my decision and if people think I am crazy, so be it. I am still hoping that he gets additional scholarships at Ship as I don’t think Pitt will be an option for him. As far as Honors, are taking Honors worth the risk of losing scholarship money? I know he has done well in school but I know from graduating from college myself and knowing about college courses that they are probably more difficult than high school courses. Perhaps he can take Honors his 2nd year of college after he has taken the first year of classes. Engineering is not an easy major and I don’t want to risk him doing poorly. I really do appreciate everyone’s advise on this site. I have learned a lot from everyone. Thank you
I don’t think you are crazy for not wanting to have your son 14 hours away. But I think you do need to figure out at least one college plan that is affordable without you taking on parent loans. No, it won’t be Pitt and it might not be Ship. But when you guys sit down to make the final decision in April, having only “we’re mortgaging the house” type of options is even MORE stressful than what you have going on right now.
So backing yourself into a corner to pay for Ship just because there are no other options- that’s what’s crazy. And if there are no commutable options, and nothing besides York that has what he’s looking for, it would take an awful lot of persuasion (by a teenager no less) to convince me that air conditioning (not useful in November, December, January, February, March and April btw) and bad dorms were enough to put York out of consideration.
If Ship comes in with more money- hallelujah! And if not- he’s still going to college.
Hug to you. I know that sometimes when you’re talking about your kids, the price tags start to feel so unreal that you think “what’s another 5K in loans”. But you don’t pay back 5K. You pay back 5K plus interest and fees, and it reduces your ability to make OTHER life choices- like retiring. Do you want to be paying a mortgage once you’ve stopped working? Most people don’t. But tapping the HELOC often means that other than selling the house and finding a cheap place to live in Arkansas-- you are stuck.
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it would take an awful lot of persuasion (by a teenager no less) to convince me that air conditioning (not useful in November, December, January, February, March and April btw) and bad dorms were enough to put York out of consideration.
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THIS…
What happens if OP’s kid gets a couple of years in and then the PLUS loan gets turned down because of the parents’ existing loans? (The HELOC from kid #1 isn’t paid off yet, right?)
I thought the OP was in PA? How can Ohio be 14 hours?
I’m in NJ and it doesn’t take me 14 hours to get to Toledo, more like 9.
But I can understand the concerns about distance and you know your child best.
Another thing to consider (with using home equity in general for college funding). Home equity loan interest will no longer be deductible under the new tax bill.
@MACmiracle It may be 14 hours round trip?
Allentown to Toledo is about 7 hrs according to Google and Youngstown is about another hour from Pitt, so about 6 hrs.
I do understand where OP is coming from. We are looking in PA and less than 2 hours from home. We have an EFC half as much as OP because we will have 2 in college.
So we do qualify for a few thousand in state grant. So I am not giving that up.
Ship is probably within 2 hrs of OP and York too.
With York it would concern me if the aid is need based since that can change with income/asset changes. But if it is merit that brings it down to $19 k then what is the GPA needed there to keep the scholarship?
Question for this group, driving East from PA, Philadelphia or NJ, what would be the “closest” Ohio University (or 2) that provides OOS discounts for PA residents? Akron for example seems farther West, and some are towards the north end of Ohio.
Cleveland State and Youngstown State give good merit I have heard, also Kent State.
You would have to look on the map which are closest to you.
Bowling Green and U Dayton are mentioned here too sometimes.
Ohio Northern is a good private school too.
https://www.ohiohighered.org/campuses/map
This is a map of Ohio public institutions.
You could search the websites of some of the closest ones for merit scholarships and run net price calculators.
Re: #151
Youngstown State in OH offers in-state tuition plus $360 for residents of some counties in western PA, WV, and NY:
http://www.ysu.edu/content/office-financial-aid-and-scholarships/tuition-and-costs . Normal out-of-state tuition is $6,000 more than in-state tuition. Youngstown State is close to the border between OH and PA.
Billed cost of attendance (living on campus, not including books and misc):
$17,212.28 OH resident
$17,572.28 resident of some counties in western PA, WV, and NY
$23,212.28 non-residents (appears to be similar to in-state cost of a PASSHE school)
Still might not be affordable without parent loans to the OP given the budget limits, unless the student earns a merit scholarship.
Youngstown State does not have computer engineering but does have computer science:
http://www.ysu.edu/academics#t_bachelors-degrees
It also has a selection of other ABET-accredited engineering programs:
http://main.abet.org/aps/AccreditedProgramsDetails.aspx?OrganizationID=357
Cleveland state merit scholarships…
https://www.csuohio.edu/financial-aid/scholarships-3
New Engineering Building…amazing
https://www.csuohio.edu/architect/neb-new-engineering-building
Here are Youngstown State’s scholarships, including some automatic-for-stats ones:
http://www.ysu.edu/content/office-financial-aid-and-scholarships/scholarships
I have no idea about computer engineering programs but when I ran a lot of NPC’s last year, Kent State’s came out very good, better than the other’s I had run like Bowling
Got interrupted in that last post but you get the idea…KentSU was better than BGSU and Ohio U. That was before I knew about U Toledo.
Youngstown State is across the border from Pittsburgh. If Pittsburgh is ok distance-wise, so is Youngstown (If Pitt is about 5hours away, Youngstown is less than 6 hours away). UAkron is near the border too, although a little bit further away.
The automatic transfer and automatic scholarships at Pitt Bradford would also be very appealing, especially since the first two years would be much cheaper than Ship.
Honors program: he wouldn’t have honors engineering classes - he would have honors gen eds. Meaning, roughly at the level of his AP classes and in smaller groups, with most students motivated enough to do the reading. A student with his stats is likely to find them easy, actually, but not as frustrating as the regular gen eds (where -true examples from PASSHE schools - students prioritize going to a concert over attending an exam, where only two students in a class have done the reading for an entire semester, where a third of the class doesn’t show up for their final.)
He’ll be in the top 2% of the students there. You can relax, classes will NOT be geared toward his level of achievement (that woud leave 98% in the dust) but toward the level of students in the 900-1000 SAT score range. IN other words, most freshman classes will be super easy for him and in order to keep his skills somewhat sharp, you’d want him to be in the honors classes (which really aren’t harder, they just expect students to be motivated enough to have done their homework so the professor can have them discuss the reading rather than go over the reading for them.)
Engineering is hard everywhere, but he will not be out of his depth - at Ship engineering will mostly mean tremendous attrition (it’s hard to complete an ABET-accredited curriculum without a 600% SAT Math for example, ie., even top students at Ship, with their 500s, would struggle).
He’s worked very hard and done very well - you trust he can succeed at Pitt, you can trust that he can handle the honors program (Honors program at Ship = bottom 25% at Pitt).