[quote]
Regarding FTE students and what type of school they attend: (page 16, bottom right, from NCES and IPEDs data)
32% attend 2 yr publics
42% 4 yr publics
18% 4 yr privates
7% for profit /quote
If you actually check the report, that’s not quite accurate. The numbers here are reported as FTE (fulltime equivalent) students, not actual students. Many students at community college attend part-time, typically because they have full-time jobs. I don’t have the actual figures for recent years, but around half of students enrolled in college are enrolled in community college.
@gpo613, @88jm19 I take it that neither of you are familiar with UIC? You know, the public research university in Chicago with 30,000 students, which has a $13,664 in-state tuition cost? The one which has growing enrollment, and which is continuously adding new buildings?
@MWolf I apologize for not mentioning UIC. My brother graduated from there.
However, as a former Chicago resident the 30K figure surprised me. If you look closely at that number the freshman undergrad class is now ~4K, but that is a fairly recent development as the demand for a more affordable in-state option increases. Hopefully it will continue to grow and improve. The trajectory is promising but it will take time.
Nope, that is just the way you set it up. (Hint: law schools have plenty of merit money, but one needs to drop down some spots in rankings as I just posted …)
But, unlike lawyers of which we graduate 2x as many as we need, physicians have a job when they graduate, with 6-figure earnings within a few years. Not sure they are even part of the bad debt being counted by the feds.
Regardless, some med wannabes have more than one choice of med school at different price points. Our good friend had an option for a UC with small merit award or Vandy at sticker, she chose the latter and $300k in loans/debt.
Regarding the billionaire who paid off all the student debt held by this year’s graduating class at Morehouse College, if I have my figures right, 396 graduating students held $40 million in debt, which works out to $101,000 per student! When I hear about figures like this, I sometimes wonder if parents would be better off buying a house for their child to live in the rest of his/her life, since the purpose of education is to house and feed the child.
@88jm19 Enrollment at UIC has been increasing steadily. For example, their CS department cannot hire fast enough to keep up with their growing enrollment. Its main limitation is dorm space, since it still is growing out of its roots as a commuter college.
@CTDadof2 When you poor as a portion of the Morehouse student body (at least half the student body was Pell Grant eligible when I attended in the mid 90’s) loans are the only way that a large portion of the student body could foot the bill at Morehouse.
I don’t believe in loans personally and would not let my son take loans from any school (except for possibly Morehouse if I could not pay the costs). Morehouse is more than just an institution of higher learning and it is hard to explain the brotherhood (closest comparison I have seen is with our military) and greatness that I have personally witnessed. I would pay a premium for what I have seen out of my class (men who are bright lights of achievement and service in their communities) but I also understand how someone could chose not to go that route and avoid such high levels of debt. The one thing I am certain of is that the Morehouse class of 2019 will pay that money back several times over giving back to their communities at large.
Pell is a federal entitlement. Pell and state grants are awarded to students, not to colleges, so you’d be yanking them from individuals. It’s discriminatory to give them to one $0 EFC student but withhold them from another. There’s a high probability that the public university a $0 EFC student gets accepted to won’t meet their need and the extra $6k from Pell isn’t going to cover that gap. It might at a well endowed private university.
That isn’t my purpose for education. I’d far prefer my kids have loans and a good education than all sorts of riches and be clueless. I feel for the students who only want to learn something if it’s “on the test.” For some of us, learning itself is the reward. We love knowing things - how life works, history, whatever. The day I stop learning will be the day I die (or my brain does).
College isn’t the only place to learn, but there’s so much available in one place with oodles of courses and events one can choose from - coupled with fun (not meaning partying, but the camaraderie). For our family K-12 wasn’t the minimum we expected. K - undergrad was. We’d have modified if it really didn’t suit one of our lads, but that wasn’t an issue in our family. My kids have loved learning from their toddler years and it hasn’t stopped post college. They enjoyed their college years - just as their parents did. They are paying off basic student loans. No regrets. With basic loans it really is just like a car payment - not difficult to pay off. IME high loans are the problem - or when kids have poor people skills making it difficult to keep a job, but that’s not as common. Most learn the people skills when they have to.
Another factor to be considered for poor students choosing between loans at sleepaway colleges and no loans (or less loans) living home is that their home environment is often not like an upper middle class home environment. Noisy, crowded apartments in chaotic, poorly served neighborhoods. We all want our kids to be in a supportive achieving community for their college years. It’s not always possible without moving away.
@MWolf. It seems that UIC is shaking their wrong interpretation from high schools and counselors are recommending it more now. Like… It’s OK to go there. I think there needs to be more of a push and a change of perception about the college. But every time I drive past it seems like another building is going up. My son’s friends love their experience there.
@Knowsstuff@MWolf This is just personal preference for myself and my D19 but I am not a fan of commuter schools. I know UIC isn’t a huge commuter school but there is still a decent % of the population commuting. Similarly I am not a fan of NIU and how close it is to the western burbs. My philosophy is when a kid goes to college they go far enough that they are not coming home each weekend or commuting everyday. I believe college is the testing ground for a kid to be out on their own. Of course if you can’t afford it you shouldn’t do it. Last fall she ran into a girl that went to ISU and had been home 4 of 5 weekends.
I did ask my D19 last night if she would have reconsidered UIC as a couple of her friends are going there. She said maybe. UIC is a good school and it has some things others don’t, but overall it didn’t fit my D19’s needs. And I don’t think it would have been cheaper than the school she is going to, which is odd because we are in-state.
At the business I work for, we have some part-time employees (19-22 yo) who are slowly working their way thru community college.
Despite living at home and not having to pay rent, all of them say the money is a hurdle.
Although there are busses in the far flung suburbs, it’s not like being in the City. These kids need a car to get from classes, to home, to work (late nights), and home again.
The young women said they also are expected to help with childcare duties (younger siblings).
No, it’s not impossible, but there are a lot of hurdles. And then what? One could commute to UIC, but the time & traffic would be formidable.
I’m rooting for them all, so they are not part of the working poor like their parents.
I’m not a fan of health care clinics- fortunately I’ve got health insurance and get to choose my own doctors. That doesn’t mean I have the right to dismiss the need for clinics- millions of people have no choice but to show up, wait two hours, and see whichever clinician is on tap.
You don’t need to be a “fan” of commuter colleges to recognize what an important function they play for all the people who don’t have the luxury of dorming, all you can eat meal plans, and a fully staffed 24/7 security team to walk you to your dorm from the library (if you choose), drive you on the campus van, etc.
In the Disneyland version of college, everyone would go far enough away so they weren’t coming home on weekends. In the real world, kids are at home on weekends to take a shift caring for a grandparent with Alzheimer’s, take a few shifts caring for your younger siblings while parents work, etc.
@Rivet2000
It seems like you’re missing the point. You can no more predict someone’s earnings potential from her major than you can determine the behavior of the stock market.
And on a purely practical level, a significant number of 18-year-olds will be “undecided” or change majors at least once before having to service the loan.
Undecided is just another statistic that can be analyzed (what do they eventually major in, do they need more time than students that enter with a major, etc). We can choose to complain about the number of students and parents who can’t repay their college loans or we can examine how loan approvals can be structured to improve the odds or repayment. I guess the other CC option is free college for all, but don’t forget to toss in free room, board, transportation, and maybe a few other sundries. Pocket change.
BTW, regards predicting the stock market. There are many math and CS type graduates working on that in NYC as we post.
You should realize that a large percentage of (potential) college students and parents may not have the luxury of being able to choose a residential college, often due to money limitations. Continuing to live with parents and commuting, although that costs more than $0, is typically significantly less expensive than living at a residential college. In a state where in-state public university FA is poor like Illinois, being able to commute to a local college may be the difference between affording to attend college or not, for the student who does not have high enough credentials to get admitted to the best FA colleges or win big merit scholarships.
Of course, there are places where there is no suitable college within reasonable commuting range, so some students have to attend college as residential students if they want to attend college at all. But then if they cannot afford to do so, they may not be able to attend college at all, or take larger amounts of debt to do so.
Exactly. No way I would have made it this far without going away, because everyone who stayed behind is still living paycheck to paycheck (or worse) and struggling. It was hard due to the violence/drugs in my neighborhood and the dysfunction (that I grew to see by leaving home) in my home life, but most posters on CC can not see that perspective. I believe in keeping the costs down where ever and however you can, and believe that commuting can be a great option in a stable home environment, but not all situations are the same. Sometimes, to make it out of tough upbringings, someone who believes in you has to “put all of the chips in” and bet on you. Thank goodness it never came to that with my mom, but I have no doubt that she would have mortgaged her life betting on me (glad she never had to). Many might call that stupid, but it was one of the main reasons that I had to make it out. And I am glad that most of your children (including my own) will never feel the pressure of knowing that they may only have one shot for a better life.
@ChangeTheGame Are we talking about poor or middle class students? I think people on CC are aware that some poor kids live in bad environments and going away to college is their best shot at a better life. That said, I think since we’re talking about debt in general, commuting is a good affordable option for many students. If some families can only afford the local commuter option, then that might have to be where the kid goes. People shouldn’t take on debt just so their kid can go away to college, living away from home at college is privilege and it’s not something kids are entitled to.
We may want to keep in mind that a poor student may have to take out a ton of loans to go to the commuter school as well.