<p>Maybe it’s time to say it: no matter how much we fuss over nuances, to have a choice, our kids need to be admitted. You find a range of colleges that work- then, the “match” is in the eyes of the adcoms. No matter how perfect we think the school or it’s atmosphere are. So, find reasons our kids love the schools they apply to. Balance the eentsy against the greater empowerment and growth they should find.</p>
<p>mollie,</p>
<p>My son is also finding his main social life is in his dorm. He is also super extroverted. He is a sort of gateway to an active social life to several of his more reserved friends. </p>
<p>Also, he never mentioned feeling pressured to join a frat. He liked getting all the free stuff during rush (steak dinner, Red Sox tickets, etc), and had no inclination to join. He’s plenty happy, social, and busy without being in a fraternity.</p>
<p>For what it’s worth, I don’t think frats are a reason to NOT go to MIT. Just don’t pledge a frat when you get there, that’s all.</p>
<p>
This was my husband’s experience, too. He went through the rush process with no intention of joining, just wanting some steak dinners and a trip to Six Flags. He got a bid at the end, politely turned it down, and that was the end of it. </p>
<p>Personally, I was maybe the only unaffiliated cheerleader, and sophomore year I was recruited (without having asked to be) by the sorority of one of the other cheerleaders. Like my husband, I said, “Thanks, but no thanks,” and no more needed to be said.</p>
<p>Wait, they have cheerleaders at MIT?</p>
<p>Yes, we also have many sports teams (including a football team). MIT is D3.</p>
<p>I’m a current freshmen and my impression is that although there is not much explicit pressure to join a fraternity, the way Rush is set up is very, very favorable for fraternities. During MIT’s rather long orientation something like two days are solely dedicated to Rush activities. As freshmen have just arrived and don’t have much else to do then as classes haven’t started and most haven’t made close friends yet. There is also quite a bit of encouragement to attend Rush activities. Even the official orientation events discourage students to entirely write off joining a fraternity/sorority. Given this and the large role frats play in social activities it is not terribly surprising that many students join frats. Thus, I don’t think the large number of students at frats is due to differences between entering students at MIT and other schools but the differing incentives students face when they arrive on campus. While some of MIT’s frats are surely quite different from the typical college frat, I don’t think all of them are that different. I suspect the main reason the administration allows Rush to be the way it is currently is housing. As others noted above, if frats suddenly disappeared there would be a severe housing shortage. </p>
<p>However, I don’t think I’m the only one who thinks frats play too large a role on campus. I think it would be much better if Rush was pushed back into spring semester. Alternatively, some non FSILG events during the weekend before classes start would be nice as well.</p>
<p>ClassicRockerDad, who wrote in part: “Without my fraternity, most of my friends freshman year would have been freshman.” – Interesting point - and could easily be a separate thread on its own merits. As my first thought upon reading this sentence was: “What is wrong with that?” In fact, I’ll go one step further and ask, “isn’t it preferable to be with all freshmen?” At many colleges, the dorms for freshmen are just that - strictly freshman dorms, which makes the most sense to me personally. Why would a student want to be mixed in from the getgo with people who have (largely) formed their own friendship circles, and may differ from freshmen in a myriad of other ways? (To clarify, I am not saying upperclassmen should not be open to making more friends - they should – but I am saying that in many cases, they are simply NOT seeking to befriend freshmen (with perhaps the exception of dating situations), based on my own experience.</p>
<p>While I don’t know if “mixed age dorms” should be make or break criteria for selecting a particular college, I think places like Harvard - which even has it’s own “strictly freshmen dining hall” have it right; when one student sits down at a table in that room - especially early on in the year - they KNOW that everyone in that room is “in the same boat” and likely they are more “open” to establishing new friendships, and having the type of conversations like, “so where are you from? What’s your major?” etc. </p>
<p>I know students at other schools who when mixed in with upperclassemen often receive at best a “cordial” response to these type of questions, and one student I know told me that she often got replies such as, “Oh, you’re clearly a freshman” and she got the feeling that the upperclassmen were already largely established with their own friends, classes, etc., and she WISHED she could differentiate the other freshmen from the older students in order to facilitate friendships. Of course, at schools with same age dorms, students can still meet upperclassmen in clubs, some classes, parties, etc. But why do freshmen need upperclassmen in their dorms and/or even in their dining room freshmen year?</p>
<p>MIT16Mom - what type of “living skills” are taught that most of the freshmen aren’t already familiar with? Btw, the tone of this question is intended to be “curious” and not “contentious”…</p>
<p>To Hunt: What reasons do you feel are valid ones for a student not to “fit” in with the culture at M.I.T.? Surely, you can’t believe the school is ideal for everyone who could merely handle the academic rigors of such a school – or do you? </p>
<p>Obviously, if the academic rigorousness is too difficult, then perhaps it’s not the ideal school - but if you assume that is not an issue, again, what other reasons do you feel would make someone a bad match for the school?</p>
<p>hsmom2013,</p>
<p>I’ll have to ask my son if he has friends who are soph, jr, and senior, or if he only hangs with other freshmen. I do know he had friends already on campus who are sophomores and juniors. Whether he sees them or not, I don’t know, but it wouldn’t surprise me if he did. Also, he’s taking a class with sophomores and probably juniors, but I don’t know if he has made friends with any of the students in class.</p>
<p>I actually think it’s pretty cool that there are mixed grade/age dorms. He was homeschooled and had friends of every age including many adult friends. I’m kinda glad he’s not just around a bunch of other (oftentimes immature) 17-18 year olds in the dorms. (Not that one automatically becomes mature at 19, ha-ha!)</p>
<p>I think Princeton and Penn had freshmen dorms, too. Son didn’t apply to Harvard so I don’t really know anything about it.</p>
<p>Thanks sbjdorlo!</p>
<p>
And, at MIT, we feel that all-freshman dorms at other schools have something of a culture of the blind leading the blind. When living groups and groups of friends contain students of all years, freshmen can look to older students for advice on picking classes, or majors, or on graduate school applications, or on getting a UROP, or any number of things. More mundanely, upperclassmen are available to help freshmen with their homework. </p>
<p>From the day I arrived at MIT, my core group of friends contained people in my class and in the classes above me. And every year, I made new friends and acquaintances in the new freshman class. I never felt that I was beyond wanting to establish new friendships. </p>
<p>I can’t imagine a situation where a mixed-age group of friends and dorm-mates isn’t a good thing.</p>
<p>I was at MIT in the late 80’s and lived in a frat. The MIT frats are pretty milk-and-cookies compared to the state university stereotype. In my frat there was extensive peer pressure to study and keep your grades up. We also did our share of drinking but that was a long time ago and the institute has been cracking down on this behavior for years, partly due to alcohol liability issues.</p>
<p>My guess is that the main reason the frats are popular is that many of them are in really nice townhouses in Boston near the other colleges (BU, Simmons, etc) so the, um, dating options are a lot more varied than living on campus.</p>
<p>I thought of another reason:</p>
<p>You get to choose who you live with. The dorms are statistical cross sections of the student population. Each frat is a self-selecting sample, so you get groups with quirky characteristics. Each group’s house gives them a certain terroir as well.</p>
<p>molliebatmit wrote “freshmen can look to older students for advice on picking classes, or majors, or on graduate school applications, or on getting a UROP, or any number of things. More mundanely, upperclassmen are available to help freshmen with their homework.”</p>
<p>Yes, that can all occur at most any college, but why must this be contingent on being HOUSED together? </p>
<p>Frankly, I recall from my own experience that seniors and freshmen were worlds apart - in everything from their focus (one on finding a job, the other on just finding a friend); sexual behaviors (yes, I am aware that seniors can date freshmen, but I still don’t see having, for example, freshmen girls residing in the same dorm as jr/sr guys as necessarily a positive environment for many), etc. Also, I bet freshmen guys would prefer being able to get to know their freshmen female counterparts (both platonicly and otherwise) without the interference of upperclassmen! :-)</p>
<p>
Because at MIT, the people in your living group are generally the people to whom you are closest. People have friends outside their living groups, of course, but in general, the living groups are extremely close-knit, and one’s closest friends will generally be among the people with whom one chooses to live.</p>
<p>I can see this difference as a grad student at Harvard, where freshmen live together in the Yard freshman year, then select a group of seven other students to “block” with for the move to the upperclassman dorms. For most Harvard students, their closest friends are in their block, and those friends are necessarily in the same class as they are. For MIT students, housing is mixed-age from the beginning, and one’s closest friends are generally in one’s living group, and probably in one’s smaller sub-group (entry/floor/wing). Those friends are not necessarily from the same class, though they can be. </p>
<p>At any rate, it’s true that seniors and freshmen are not always on the same page. My closest friends from MIT are mostly in my own class, and in the class above me and below me. But those relationships with people in the classes above and below were (and are) incredibly valuable.(Actually, my husband is from the class below mine, and we started dating when he was a freshman living in my dorm. So I can’t say I have many objections to cross-class dating.)</p>
<p>And the influence of upperclassmen goes both ways – it’s not uncommon for freshmen to arrive at college and go wild being on their own for the first time. In my experience, juniors and seniors are actually a moderating influence with respect to alcohol/partying, since upperclassmen are generally over the novelty of getting totally wasted. The undergrads in my lab tell me that the freshman dorms at Harvard are pretty wild.</p>
<p>I also wouldn’t characterize freshmen at MIT as being more interested in looking for a friend than in looking for a job. I mean, you come to orientation, you meet a lot of people, you choose a living group, classes start, extracurriculars start: you have friends. Then you turn your attention to doing well in class, picking a major, finding an undergraduate research position, etc. Compared to everything else at MIT, finding friends is not all that hard.</p>
<p>I think both all-freshman and mixed-classes dorms/living groups have their advantages.</p>
<p>On another note, I wouldn’t make generalizations about MIT undergrads being less independent-minded than their counterparts at the ivies based on the frat issue, except for perhaps the one semester they are pledging. (I guess one can argue whether or not there are effects of this beyond the semester of pledging. Maybe they are less independent-minded than they would have been otherwise.) I was only at a frat during the (ridiculously long) pledge period, which was literally more than 5 times as long as most other schools. I was also in a sport, which is relevant because the frat sending the pledges on trips to different states for the weekend on the spur of the moment really made it hard for me to schedule time to study, moreso than the other people who had no other time commitments beyond school. Fortunately, I had taken all of the 1st semester classes before. </p>
<p>I also should concede that I’m sure that the undergrads today don’t have it as hard as we did, since we lived in the frat house as pledges. The level of control over your life is less when you aren’t living with the “brothers.” However, there is definitely various degrees of hazing in many of the houses both now and before, ranging from the minor of just dominating your time with sometimes unannounced commitments to serious violations like physical abuse and dangerous drinking rituals. I don’t know whether physical abuse is still going on, but the brothers in my own frat said they got beat up when they were pledges. I imagine this is on the rarer side. Incidentally, my frat was not one of the frats with a “reputation” either. However, I will say my experience would have been better if I had chosen a different frat (and I did have multiple bids.) Again though, I effectively only had a day to make the decision because MIT cares more about maintaining the prominence of the frat system by rushing freshmen men into decisions than whether their undergrads have the time and space to make good choices. </p>
<p>I also would take other MIT parent’s assurances about MIT frats not being stereotypical with a grain of salt. Unless their kid actually leaves the fraternity, which means it was bad enough that they chose to leave the circle of friends, the negatives aren’t likely to get back to the parents. Also, the girls who hung out at the frat or even who dated our frat members didn’t really get a sense for what it was like either.</p>
<p>I’m trying to be fair here. Obviously, my view of fraternities is profoundly negative, a view which was amplified when a freshmen was killed in a pledge drinking ritual at my fraternity. However, if you talk to MIT AI prof Patrick Winston, one of the big defenders of frats on campus and a former MIT undergrad, he thinks frats are the best thing since sliced bread.</p>
<p>Regarding mixed-classes living together, I would agree with Mollie’s point that upper classman can be a “moderating influence.” My freshman son already knew a number of MIT upperclassman (from various summer programs and schools), and he tells me that his math study group is all sophomores – which he says is a plus because they don’t have pass/fail and are quite serious about the Psets. Having attended boarding school for high school, he’s sort of been through the living away from home thing, and I think feels comfortable with upperclassman who have settled in a bit.</p>
<p>My brother in law was in a frat, as were at least 3 good friends of mine who went to MIT. Seems like the norm rather than the exception. So, yes, I definitely believe tbe statistics. The frats are near BU, at least a lot of them. (My friends are all nice people! They work in tech, biotech, and academia.)</p>