<p>" I don’t know whether physical abuse is still going on, but the brothers in my own frat said they got beat up when they were pledges."</p>
<p>That is so sad, collegealum314… What year are you talking about, if I may ask?</p>
<p>I liked the mixing of the upper classmen and freshmen that takes place in the fraternities and dorms at MIT. It is somewhat calming for a freshman who is probably living away from home for the first time. You also have an instant reference for technical as well as personal questions.</p>
<p>My fraternity would place upperclassmen and freshmen in the same room, with the freshmen rotating rooms each quarter (sounds like a pain to move but I don’t recall it being any trouble). We would also incourage the graduate brothers and recent alumni that were around to stop by and they did. One could eat their meals at the house for real cheap (ie. below our actual cost) and enjoy spending some time around the house. One recent alum even used us as his airport chauffeur with him loaning his car to one of the brothers while he was out of town. Worked out well for both parties. You also got a feel of what the “real world” was like talking to those that were out working about their experiences.</p>
<p>One of the best things about my MIT experience was my Fraternity experience. And I did not have any experience of a fraternity at (say) a state college to compare it to, so I do not know whether the MIT independent living group experience is any different. Though I do know that the students who live in MIT ILGs are MIT students, with all that that implies. </p>
<p>A ILG is just a self-governing living group. The members of the ILG elect representatives and manage themselves. If something spills in the public area of a dorm, then a cleaner who is a member of the union will come along and clean it up. If something spills in a public area of an ILG, then the (usually rostered) members of the ILG will have to clean it up. This saves a lot of money on union cleaners. What to do with that money is entirely up to the house. Some houses return that money to their members and ensure that they keep their costs down. The lowest room and board costs on campus is always in an ILG ([MIT</a> Student House](<a href=“http://web.mit.edu/studs/www/]MIT”>MIT Student House)), many others choose to spend that money on larger social budget than the dorms. When I was on campus, one house increased their house bill, and served gourmet food every night and their members felt superior whenever they heard anyone complaining about the MIT dining halls. The simple fact is that being self-governing, every house is different, and houses change significantly over time.</p>
<p>There are some clear advantages and disadvantages to living in an ILG. As the members have to maintain the house, you will be spending time doing things that friends in dorms are not doing, likely to include many hours of scrubbing toilets and kitchens. And time is the most precious commodity at MIT. That being said, such work does build closeness amongt the group. I am still very friendly with more than 20 of the folks in my fraternity. We see each other several times per year. Often we holiday together with our families. And we live in five continents. This is not atypical of those I know who lived in ILGs. My sibling also went to MIT and lived in a dorm. He has MIT friends but not the same soft of close clan, many years after leaving MIT. And that closeness does often mean that the members of the house look after each other. </p>
<p>I think that the reason that the average GPA of the MIT students living in the ILG system is consistently higher than the average GPA of the students in the dorms, it is because of the closer support that the upperclass residents provide to the the younger members.</p>
<p>I think about living groups in much the same way as I think about university admissions. At the end of the day it is all about the match between the individual student and the environment that they may choose to move into. That match is critical. A particular person may match well for one house, but not for others, or may match best for a particular dorm. Your mileage may vary, but I think that taking any decision about fraternities based on [National</a> Lampoon’s Animal House](<a href=“http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/National_Lampoon’s_Animal_House]National”>Animal House - Wikipedia) and similar movies is about as intelligent as taking decisions on energy policy based on [Chain</a> Reaction](<a href=“http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chain_Reaction_(film)]Chain”>Chain reaction (disambiguation) - Wikipedia) and similar movies.</p>
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<p>Citation? I’ve seen this claim many times and have never seen a really good source for it. From searching the internet and piecing together various sources it appears the FSILG average GPA is either the same as the overall GPA or very slightly (.1 or less) higher than the overall GPA but the data is several years old and not directly comparable. ILGs and Sororities have higher GPAs than frats as well. [Sources [MIT</a> AILG GPA Data](<a href=“http://www2.mitailg.org/gpas.html]MIT”>http://www2.mitailg.org/gpas.html) and a CUP report restricted to the MIT community]</p>
<p>MIT16 mom wrote “my son told me, he met a group of guys that he enjoyed being around, and a ready made study groups too. In addition, every week, they provide a living skills session for the incoming pledges”.</p>
<p>I asked, “What type of “living skills” are taught that most of the freshmen aren’t already familiar with? Btw, the tone of this question is intended to be “curious” and not “contentious”… "</p>
<p>Unfortunately, MIT16 never posted a follow-up reply.
Can anyone else please elaborate what type of skills beyond her example of “repairing a car" freshmen are taught?</p>
<p>There are plenty of life skills freshmen don’t necessarily have:
-Cooking
-Time management
-Communicating and networking with people in industry and academia
-Study strategies
-MIT-survival skills (go to class, sleep, go to S^3 if you’re sick or stressed, etc.)
-College relationships (they’re different from high school relationships)
-Birth control
-Drinking responsibly</p>
<p>I’m not in a frat, so I don’t know what survival skills they teach, but that’s where I would start.</p>
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<p>roughly the 93-95 period.</p>
<p>I should add that there was a pretty major typo in one of my posts. The frat that someone died in after a drinking ritual was not my own. Nonetheless, I found it pretty distressing.</p>
<p>Hi HSMOM16, In response to your question : “what type of “living skills” are taught that most of the freshmen aren’t already familiar with?” – I would say that Lidusha has a very good list above. I realized after my post that the fraternity calls them “practical skills”, and some examples are basic repairs to a car, putting together a resume, and proper etiquette in a fine dining situation. Some students may or may not have these skills, but my real point was that I think many MIT fraternities go beyond what many believe to be negative stereotype, to provide mentoring, academic support, and a sense of family to their members. We are new to it ourselves, so only time will tell, but it seems to meet my sons needs. And as always, there are many ways at MIT to feel a sense of belonging and social relationships beyond fraternities through dorm life. Different strokes for different folks, but all good! I would hope that MIT fraternities have come a long way from the horrible event that collegealum314 had to experience.</p>
<p>@collegealum314:</p>
<p>Thanks for the info and for clarifying.
Still very distressing…
A good thing the freshmen are now required to live in dorms; at least they have a chance to decide if the fraternity is a good match for them before they move in.</p>
<p>One thing that’s already become apparent (which is probably a “duh!” for most people, but I never thought of it) is that students in frats will tend to hang out with students in frats more than their friends in dorms. Freshmen who rush (and I don’t really know how it works) begin to spend more/most of their time with the frat guys rather than their dorm friends. My son’s two good friends are rushing a frat and he sees much less of them than he did several weeks ago. So, he can expect his friendships to shift during his time at MIT. He’s used to that with his educational background, but it is something to note.</p>
<p>Also, I <em>think</em> my son was staying with someone who was going through rush last year when he was at MIT for a special program. I remember seeing a video of it on the MIT website somewhere. The people leading the group led the guys through a lingerie department and one of the guys volunteered to get make up put on him in the make up department. It seemed sort of harmless. We were surprised to see our son in a video before he even attended MIT!</p>
<p>What is the frat equivalent for women?</p>
<p>MIT has sororities, but fewer women participate. Each sorority is also larger (there are only ~6 sororities, vs. ~25 fraternities), and a smaller percentage of sorority members live in the sorority house. So for sororities, it is easier to participate in the group without moving to the house and totally changing one’s group of friends. I think about 20-25% of women join a sorority.</p>
<p>There are also a few independent living groups, which are co-ed (except for one which is all-female) and not affiliated with national organizations. They are fraternity-like in that they own houses where members live, and that they generally have independent dining options. But culturally, they’re fairly non-frat-like.</p>
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I am not sure quite what this means. Quite a few of the ILGs are very “Frat-like”, whatever that means. And more than a few of the Frats do not appear very “frat-like”. Trying to define the “standard” fraternity culture at MIT (or for that matter trying to define the “standard” dorm culture), seems an exercise in futility. There are houses filled with jocks, houses filled with artsy types, houses that are quite quiet and studious. You can find a coed local independent living group, or a coed national fraternity on the MIT campus.</p>
<p>I think that THIS VERY THING is part of the MIT culture. There are many living options, with very different atmospheres. MIT will help you to find a place where you feel at home, living with people you will likely get along with (more or less).</p>
<p>Ah! I was trying to say that several of them seemed, at least to me, to be on the “crunchy” side, more like a co-op, but then I wasn’t sure if I was over-generalizing, or even whether the ILGs I was remembering have that sort of culture anymore. So, clearly, I was trying not to overgeneralize, and ended up overgeneralizing myself into a corner.</p>
<p>But I certainly agree that there’s no single fraternity culture at MIT, and that the houses are as varied as the students at MIT. (Little-known fact: when I was a freshman lo so many years ago, the one frat where I did hang out on a regular basis was TEP*.)</p>
<p>*for the non-MIT: TEP is the sort of gleefully nerdy frat that probably only exists at MIT. Much more “east campus” than “west campus” in its vibe.</p>
<p>I thought Mollie’s initial post (#52) was very accurate and well-stated.</p>
<p>There are many fraternities at MIT so there’s going to be variation, but you can still make generalizations.</p>
<p>
That is possibly true, I spent four years in the MIT Shakespeare ensemble, and TEP was clearly overrepresented amongt the ensemble. It was quite surprising just how many members were TEP residents.</p>
<p>All fraternities sororities and independent living groups at MIT are made up of MIT students. If there are “crunchy” fraternity traits that do not match well with MIT students, then they are unlikely to be present in MIT fraternities. Other than that, your mileage may vary widely.</p>
<p>Mikalye, so you didn’t think Kappa Sigma, Sig Ep, Sigma phi epsilon, or Fiji had many stereotypical characteristics of frats? These frats had such strong personalities, that I’m going to guess they were not all that different when you were there. </p>
<p>Incidentally, TDC was probably the worst in terms of illicit substance use, but I wouldn’t say they were a stereotypical frat, so I’m not measuring this strictly on what they were ingesting.</p>
<p>I don’t disagree. Fiji in particular, but also Sig Ep certainly were trying to offer the Animal House experience. Kappa Sig a bit less, but also tending to that end of the spectrum. But there are 41 registered FSILG members, not including the service fraternities. Even if I grant that 10% of these tend to be stereotypical frats, that still leaves the overwhelming majority of the ILG system that are not. And as you say, these houses have very strong personalities. I would be stunned if anyone decided to move into Fiji without knowing what they were moving into. </p>
<p>When I was on campus, one of the dorms decided to make a pornographic film (this was pre-YouTube, when making a film usually involved film stock), students acted, directed, did the lighting and cinematography, and this was seen as a dorm activity. Heck, Senior House had an open pharmaceuticals bar for Steer Roast for years (this has long since been eliminated). This was not an environment that I would have chosen to live in. But also, it is not “typical” (whatever that means) of the MIT dorms.</p>
<p>It was a tiny percentage of the students who were living in the FSILG system that were seeking the Animal House scene. But that does not disagree with what I was saying. The underlying ethos of the MIT housing scene is that you can find a group of people with whom you will want to live. To enable that to happen, there is a huge, huge, huge difference between living groups. That is true WITHOUT REGARD to the type of living group. Yes, the animal house experience is (almost by definition) not available in the dorms, but it is also not “typical” (whatever that means) of the fraternities.</p>
<p>Well, we seem to be in agreement that a small minority of the frats are very stereotypical. What I was contesting was the following statement, which seemed to imply that “crunchy” frat traits wouldn’t be found in MIT frats.
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<p>Well, I don’t think that all the ILGs are thes same if you are including frats and sororities with the non-Greek ILGs. I don’t think the non-Greek ILGs are the same animal. In fact, that was one of my points. The “themed” frats, like the ethnicity-based ones, the literary one, the co-ed service frat are something different too, I think. What I am making generalizations about are the non-themed frats, which number about 30 I think. So that’s a bigger chunk of them that are Animal House. So it is 4/30.</p>
<p>But your larger point is that Animal House activity, drunkeness and general debauchery, do exist in some of the dorms (e.g., Steer Roast.) I actually agree with this, but as I said before, it’s not just what was ingested, but the philosophy behind it. </p>
<p>I still remember Sig Ep’s brochure that I got years ago as a pre-frosh with “The Balanced Man” emblazened across the top. I didn’t know what Sig Ep’s reputation was at the time, but even then I could sense the puffery and B.S. Senior House wouldn’t send out such a ridiculous brochure. The sense that I got was that being full of it was viewed as a virtue, something that would serve them well in the workplace as well. Also, that drinking and carousing were not just having fun, but important networking skills. They might be right, considering Wall Street is practically a zoo.</p>
<p>Also, there was a strong sense of group identity. If we are being honest, there are plenty of big egos at MIT. Going in as freshmen, people had high opinions of themselves if they did something well. In the frats, there was this weird sense that people thought they were great just because they belonged to the group.</p>
<p>What I consider stereotypical frat traits are the following:
- pledging, hazing, and related things: the concept that a pledge needs to be broken down to be built up, artificial stress for bonding purposes
- drinking rituals (hazing and otherwise)
- anti-intellectualism
- the ideology that getting ahead through networking was a better and more admirable strategy than getting ahead by being smarter and having better ideas</p>
<p>While we agree that only a small number of frats are completely stereotypical, many of them have various degrees of the traits above. And while there is variation, the mean of these traits are higher in the frat system than in dorms, non-Greek ILGs, and sororities.</p>
<p>Just an FYI. My son recently went to a frat party to accompany a friend who’s rushing a sorority. He said it was awful and probably one of the worst experiences he’s had. My dh talked with him, so I don’t know that he shared details. Needless to say, it was a big turn off for him. (Don’t know any details, so I can’t comment on anything other than what he shared)</p>