<p>At my son’s department, professors are clearly most important if they bring in grant money and publish. The exception is in the freshman courses where the teaching is excellent. There are professors that are excellent researchers and teachers too.</p>
<p>I don’t know what kind of school UA is; I just know that they have some generous OOS scholarships. I think that some departments and schools take student ratings seriously but state institutions that are chronically underfunded have to get that extra revenue from somewhere.</p>
<p>There was a piece in the Times just this week about the president of Ohio State, Gordon Gee, who would like to see the process changed. An AP article was cited, saying Gee is one of the few American college presidents with the reputation and political prowess not to mention the golden touch at fund-raising who might be able to begin the transformation.
[A</a> University President Advocates Tweaking Tenure - The Choice Blog - NYTimes.com](<a href=“A University President Advocates Tweaking Tenure - The New York Times”>A University President Advocates Tweaking Tenure - The New York Times)</p>
<p>Some media sources are also reporting that this was not only a case of being denied tenure, but that the prof and her husband had invented some type of machine or program that the University claimed ownership. I am unsure of all of the details, but media has indicated something along the lines of intellectual property agreements, etc. Many places (esp science and eng) require that one sign this type of agreement. This has been such a tragedy for all involved.</p>
<p>Normally, if a member of the faculty produces something that is marketable, the university shares in the royalties. This complicates things if the professor is then denied tenure. The university will continue to cash in on the professor’s invention, but the professor will be out of a secure academic job. If denied tenure at HYP, profs can still secure good positions elsewhere. I am not clear what would the prospects be for someone denied tenure at Alabama. Not that it excuses anything that Bishop did, but it may explain the mixture of anxiety and anger that propelled her.</p>
<p>A previous post said that “she was being fired (not granted tenure)” Is that true, that if you’re not granted tenure you are fired? I thought that if you are denied tenure that you could reapply for it and i never heard that the denial of tenure meant you were fired.</p>
<p>Also, can someone give a very simple explanation of tenure, the process and what it actually means to be tenured? The word is used often and I think everyone has a different opinion of what it means. Thanks</p>
<p>I don’t think anyone can speculate about why she was denied tenure. </p>
<p>Saying she was a bad teacher seems inaccurate since her Rate My Prof Reviews were a mix of “Horrible teacher” and “Best prof I’ve ever had!” Seems she was an intense personality and students either loved her or hated her.</p>
<p>Saying people denied her tenure because they knew she was crazy is probably also not true. Aren’t a lot of super smart people pretty “weird” and “intense”? But not necessarily killers!</p>
<p>The post I agree with most is that tenure is political. I have seen so many good professors go because of failure to receive tenure, for reasons I can’t even imagine - they were known in their field, published great stuff, etc. I don’t know the specifics on tenure, but in the several instances I know where tenure was denied, the profs were let go shortly after. I have also seen profs let go after not being /offered/ to go up for tenure consideration for a certain amount of time (also in instances where I respected the prof and the prof’s work immensely).</p>
<p>The total shadiness of tenure aside, this woman is obviously deranged and this was realy a tragedy.</p>
<p>Terrible news from Huntsville, prayers go out to all affected by this tragedy. My question, as a parent, is how much weight do you give these incidents in helping your child make his/her college decision? I know that this could have happened at ANY school in the US, so does that mean that I should discount the fact that it happened at a school that my son has on his list of schools that he is considering attending? One of the news articles that I read stated that the students had not been notified of a problem for more than an hour after the shooting although the residence halls were locked down in a very short time.</p>
<p>life in prison if her defense team can’t prove she was insane via “so depressed she had a psychotic break.” </p>
<p>This will be hard to prove with no documentation of extreme distress, psychiatric care and psychotic ideation before she planned and carried out this execution. So many murders of women are “suicides by proxy”…ie the executioner male (usually male…can be reversed) actually has decided on suicide and has a surge of energy since he has “solved” his problems and can make everyone “sorry”. Sometimes however the executioner “forgets” about the suicide part. </p>
<p>wonder if she will claim she intended to shoot herself…but forgot to do so. </p>
<p>horrifying how little you know about how balanced a person is before you must make a hire decision. Imagining that Huntsville was proud to hire her just a few years back.</p>
<p>I do think these things can happen on any campus and in any workplace. Husband is a lawyer and I am a social worker and have seen plenty of situations where colleges tried to remove risky students from their student body etc. Obviously, mental illness, depression etc can damage the lives of bright people like this woman, but I hope they didn’t keep her on for a long time because they were afraid of her. We shall see.</p>
<p>I live close to Va Tech and know many students who were in the dorm where the first executions took place including my nephew.<br>
Tech had PLENTY Of warning that they had a mentally ill…in fact an openly suicidal, hallucinating, untreated psychotic student in their dorms who frightened male students enough for them to call for help several times and who frightened experienced teachers enough for one to refuse to teach him any longer and for another to walk with him to mental health services.</p>
<p>No one wanted to take responsibility for this student…instead he was foisted year after year into shared housing with unsuspecting freshmen who actually called the authorities about him on campus when he was talking to people not there and making suicidal statments. OK…rant on the nightmare at Tech is over but my point is…I hope the faculty at Huntsville, and I do feel for the bind they were in…I hope they were not also trying to simply get a pass on this woman, ease away from her without addressing that she was also clearly unbalanced…wonder if we will find out that she had been putting out red flags for a good while re her being unhinged or if this will indeed be a huge surprise to those who knew her and something that no one could have predicted</p>
<p>RadDad, that is a tough question to answer. </p>
<p>As a parent I would be much more concerned if there were a string of student suicides. For me that might indicate too much stress on the student (various types of stress possible), and few outlets to discover acceptable solutions. That said, I would worry a little bit about copycat events, especially on that campus, or a local campus that had this story in the news more than in other places throughout the country. I am sure many would disagree, but I am telling you my opinion.</p>
<p>RadDad–I would also question the schools about their alert systems; ask pointed questions, not just give me some general info. Sure, these systems are only going to be as effective as administration implements them, but the whole purpose for alert systems is to keep everyone safe. I do not believe any college, university, HS or elem school in this day and time are 100% safe and secure. As a parent, you have valid concerns where incidences have occurred at schools that your student is considering. We all have to be vigilant about safety and impress this to our students as well.</p>
<p>Tenure review can be very stressful and you can be denied tenure even though your research is superb. A very talented professor (multiple publications in top journals, books, sat on lots of committees, good teacher; loved by students, etc) was denied tenure because some of old guards did not like him. He was trying to change the entire program because he thought the program was badly run, and the old guards were having none of it. Some graduate students wrote scathing letters to the head of the department about his case. </p>
<p>The good news is that he got another offer from another prestigious university. This does not happen usually, but he was good. His case forced the university to review the entire tenure process. They have introduced some changes, but not enough; the old guards still have way too much power.</p>
<p>In another case, the department voted to deny tenure to an assistant professor whose scholarship was horrible, but the university president overruled the department. The prof. was in a department that has received a lot of donations from certain groups interested in the field of the professor.</p>
<p>To someone who asked – at most institutions I’ve been at to be denied tenure is the same as being fired – no appeal or reapplication. You’re either granted tenure or you go on your way.</p>
<p>This is heartbreaking. Three senior faculty members. Of course their families will never recover, and it will be a long while before that biology department recovers.</p>
<p>And yes, tenure was a very, very stressful process in my department, those less political than in most. One of my friends lost all her hair – fell out from stress.</p>
<p>as much as I can see that there is something tragic about being a gifted Harvard grad with probably a high IQ and a history of dedicated lab hours and endeavors who is denied tenure due to unspecified committee reasoning, I see this as workplace violence, not a commentary on the travails of tenure track professions. </p>
<p>it really isn’t different from “going Postal” or from an Ivy grad being one of the two new hires NOT offered a partnership track after seven years of service in a law firm (a common practice) or from the home builder going bankrupt in the recession or those in Michigan or running car dealerships suddenly holding worthless homes and properties.
Emotional well being and balance and resilience are things that make or break a life. I am sorry to read that she was stating that “they must be all alive” when arrested. Perhaps she did have an outright psychotic break.</p>
<p>At institutions I’m familiar with (including my own), denial of tenure at the department level is just the first step. It can on occasion be overruled at higher levels (after review by higher level committees and officers) but this is rare, often requiring a question about process. </p>
<p>In addition, denial of tenure does not mean immediate loss of one’s job. Typically the tenure review is in the penultimate year of a probationary appointment as Assistant Professor, so there’s perhaps a year and a half before the employment actually lapses. </p>
<p>Also, at my institution there is a possibility of an appeal or rehearing of the case the following year (the so-called “terminal year” of the probationary appointment) if extraordinary new information comes forward to justify a re-review for tenure. This can sometimes happen if a faculty member had several major research papers or grants under review at the time of the first tenure review and some of these “hit” in the last 12 months.</p>
<p>As a (former) department chair, I can say that I’ve seen daggers thrown at me or members of the tenure committee after some decisions, but these were always visual or verbal. Nobody threatened violence. A few years ago at a professional meeting I encountered a former faculty member who had been denied tenure in my department. He made a point of coming up to me and to my surprise said ,“You were right to deny me tenure. I didn’t deserve it.” What was I to say after that?</p>
<p>Faline2-I agree with your post and while we can try to ponder the “why” of this situation, we will never really know. Media in our area seems to focus on the fact that the proprietary issue may have been ongoing with the tenure issue being the tipping point. This is a horrific tragedy for the families, school and community (this follows on the heals of another shooting at a middle school in the area in which there was a student fatality).</p>
<p>Something to mention to those who are considering schools at the moment, particularly Raddad.</p>
<p>This shooting took place at a regional campus–University of Alabama-Huntsville. The University of Alabama we’re all thinking of, the BCS champions, Crimson tide, great OOS aid, etc. is in Tuscaloosa. </p>
<p>It does sound to me that Bishop was feeling aggrieved over the issue of proprietary rights and the denial of tenure just fed into her sense of injustice being done ( I have no knowledge of the merits of her case).
I have no idea whether the problems over intellectual property rights were with the administration or the department. But it was the department that voted her down.
I have heard similar things to what is reported by Mackinaw, but it must be rare. More typically, the file of someone who is not recommended for tenure in the next to last year when the review process takes place is not sent up to the next level (the university level) unless there is a complaint over procedures and the case is then reviewed (sometimes, universities cave in under the threat of an expensive lawsuit or adverse publicity).
Bishop may have felt that, despite her Harvard degree and her scientific achievement, to be denied tenure at the departmental level of a regional campus boded ill for her chances of employment elsewhere.
I can’t help thinking about the “Life of the Mind” thread. may those who pursue graduate studies have greater resilience than Bishop!</p>
<p>Those professor rating sites and even evaluations are so ridiculous. I’m not so sure they can tell you a whole lot about a professor unless the majority of them are either really good or really bad reviews. I only had one professor in my entire college career (5 years) that I really did not like. She was a lecturer and had a terrible attitude about teaching and helping students learn. I can guarantee you that I’ve had professors I liked and thought were amazing and helped me learn a lot about their area of study, but that other students didn’t like them because they didn’t get a good grade on something or knew they weren’t going to get a good final grade in the class and wanted to blame the professor’s teaching style on their laziness as students by writing a bad evaluation.</p>
<p>As others have explained, denial of tenure is generally the same as being fired, except that one gets a fair amount of advanced notice–the remainder of the academic year in which the decision is made and the next academic year.</p>
<p>You may be confusing tenure with post-tenure promotion. Tenured professors who are associate profs may request consideration for promotion to full prof after a few years. If they are denied, they may try again.</p>