Should a 9th grader take the PSAT? SAT?

Parents Forum
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<p>Taking SAT for CIT is one thing, but there maybe other things to consider.</p>

<p>My son signed up for SAT on 8th grade, since his magnet program teacher suggested all students to test the New SAT before going into high school so they have a good idea about the new test.</p>

<p>But for some reasons, my son couldn't make it on the test day, we already paid, don't want to wast money so we change the test day from June to Oct, didn't think of anything else other then just give it try.</p>

<p>Thank goodness, he did very well, 800/800/760, with about 10 hrs of self study.</p>

<p>We thought we are done for the SAT, but then the school told us that SAT taking on freshmen year will not qualify him for national merit scholarship, he need to retake sat for that purpose.</p>

<p>Son is good at math, science, but in middle school, he has a lot of time so he reads a lot of literature books that makes him good at reading and vocabulary too.</p>

<p>Now in high school, he is more involved in science and don't read that much literature any more, and he is in a very tight time schedule, trying to learn many thing by himself outside the classroom, he said he definitely don't want to spend time on SAT at all, and he says this time his score maybe worse then last time.</p>

<p>Now, i am very regret for letting him taking SAT at 9th grade, if he doesn't do as well compared to last time, college will sees it as a decline, which will make him really look bad. But if we don't do SAT, we lost the possibility of getting some scholarship, because I am confident that even he may not do as well this time, he should still be able to make it high enough for national merit scholarship. Without 9th gr score there as a comparison, he will still look good, with that score, adcom may question him for not keeping up.</p>

<p>Just to share some experience. btw, he is a junior now</p>

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<p>"We thought we are done for the SAT, but then the school told us that SAT taking on freshmen year will not qualify him for national merit scholarship, he need to retake sat for that purpose."</p>

<p>It is the PSAT that is used to determine NMSQT eligibility, not the SAT. So your son could take the PSAT in his junior year. (Congratulations on your son's excellent scores at such an early age, by the way.)</p>

<p>I'm another parent whose child adored the CTY program. Do be aware that they offer scholarships. Mine would not have been able to go otherwise.</p>

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<p>Hi, consolation:</p>

<p>Thanks for the reply.</p>

<p>He will be taking PSAT soon, but somehow the GC in his school said SAT will be part of the consideration for NMF. Aslo can you share some information about CTY's scholarship?</p>

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<p>The GC is correct that the SAT is considered in determining which semifinalists become finalists for the NMS, but I don't think it matters when the SAT was taken. You might want to check with NMSQT about this, as it is entirely unnecessary for your son to retake with those scores. The NMS does require that in most cases the PSAT be taken junior year (exceptions are made for kids who go through high school in less than 4 years), but I was not aware that the SAT needed to be taken at any specific time.</p>

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<p>
[quote]
So, his freshman year SAT score could come back to haunt him.

[/quote]
</p>

<p>What is the evidence that there is any "haunt" danger from taking the SAT as a freshman? I have seen College Board score reports, and they note when the test-taker took the test. Talent Search testing is quite commonplace </p>

<p><a href="http://www.collegeboard.com/prod_downloads/highered/ra/sat/SATScoresNontradTestTakers.pdf%5B/url%5D"&gt;http://www.collegeboard.com/prod_downloads/highered/ra/sat/SATScoresNontradTestTakers.pdf&lt;/a> </p>

<p><a href="http://www.tip.duke.edu/talent_searches/grade_7/7TSResultsSummary.pdf%5B/url%5D"&gt;http://www.tip.duke.edu/talent_searches/grade_7/7TSResultsSummary.pdf&lt;/a> </p>

<p>and retesting by high school juniors and seniors is quite commonplace </p>

<p><a href="http://www.collegeboard.com/prod_downloads/highered/ra/sat/average_scores_testing-1-5_times_during_junior_senior_years.pdf%5B/url%5D"&gt;http://www.collegeboard.com/prod_downloads/highered/ra/sat/average_scores_testing-1-5_times_during_junior_senior_years.pdf&lt;/a> </p>

<p>so college admission officers know that they will encounter the situation of college applicants submitting more than one set of scores. What do colleges say about how they treat application files with more than one set of scores? </p>

<p><a href="http://www.admissions.college.harvard.edu/utilities/electronic_resources/viewbook/Rollo0708_GuideApplying.pdf%5B/url%5D"&gt;http://www.admissions.college.harvard.edu/utilities/electronic_resources/viewbook/Rollo0708_GuideApplying.pdf&lt;/a> </p>

<p><a href="http://www.yale.edu/admit/faq/applying.html%5B/url%5D"&gt;http://www.yale.edu/admit/faq/applying.html&lt;/a> </p>

<p><a href="http://www.princeton.edu/pr/admissions/u/brief/PU_brief_0708.pdf%5B/url%5D"&gt;http://www.princeton.edu/pr/admissions/u/brief/PU_brief_0708.pdf&lt;/a> </p>

<p><a href="http://www.mitadmissions.org/topics/apply/standardized_test_requirements/whats_the_big_deal_about_402.shtml%5B/url%5D"&gt;http://www.mitadmissions.org/topics/apply/standardized_test_requirements/whats_the_big_deal_about_402.shtml&lt;/a> </p>

<p><a href="http://www.stanford.edu/dept/uga/pdf/Stanford_Viewbook.pdf%5B/url%5D"&gt;http://www.stanford.edu/dept/uga/pdf/Stanford_Viewbook.pdf&lt;/a> </p>

<p><a href="http://www.admissions.caltech.edu/faqs%5B/url%5D"&gt;http://www.admissions.caltech.edu/faqs&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/p>

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<p>Hi, tokenadult:</p>

<p>I don't mean the freshmen year's SAT will definitely come back to haunt student. I mean in my son's case, his junior year's score MAY not be as good as his freshmen, then that may actually hurt him. since college like to see student makes progress not decline.</p>

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<p>If your kid is a bright student, (obviously he is; he wouldn't have qualified for CTY earlier), the likelihood that his scores would go down between freshman and jr years is highly unlikely. With the additional English, Math, and Science classes he'll have in 2 years of high school, he's almost always going to see a rise in scores, unless he's sick or otherwise sleeps through the SAT taken later. Don't worry about it.</p>

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<p>


</p>

<p>It sounds like your son is on a good path to have some fine admission results. Because you are so concerned that your son get a good education, your worry is understandable, but I think it will not be risky for your son to take the SAT once more. Certainly it would be a bad idea to throw away scholarship opportunities just because college admission officers will see two sets of scores, one recent, rather than only one set of scores. College admission officers are used to seeing more than one set of scores from many applicants. </p>

<p>I have heard, from a man I know who is an experienced math team coach in another state, that in his state most of the young people who get the top scores in math competitions at middle school age (for example, MATHCOUNTS) have already achieved perfect scores of 800 on the SAT I math section by that age. (I know other examples of such high scores, from my state.) The interesting fact that he reports to me is that NONE of those students repeat their scores of 800 the next time they take the SAT I, even though they often increase their scores on the critical reading section. Those students have been so busy learning competition math and standard curriculum math beyond calculus that they are slightly out of practice in the junior-high-level (internationally speaking) math found on the SAT I math section. So those students score "lower" the second time they take the SAT I, but it doesn't hurt them in gaining admission to the top colleges. My math coach friend knows quite a few students who get into HYPSM-level research universities and do fine there. </p>

<p>College admission officers are used to seeing young people who </p>

<p>a) have taken the SAT I more than once, and </p>

<p>b) are too busy to do test-prep at senior-high age, because they are doing challenging high school courses and extracurricular activities. Such students fare well in college admission. </p>

<p>You mention that your son is now a junior. This is a good year to attend lots of college</a> information meetings and meet admission officers from different colleges. Feel free to attend meetings to listen to questions about testing requirements and perhaps to ask those questions yourself. I think you will find out--tell me if I am wrong--that most college admission officers will think a student is "keeping up" if he takes challenging courses and does challenging activities and doesn't spend all day just prepping for the SAT I test. </p>

<p>Also, it may be that your son will still get a high score the next time he takes the test. I'm still waiting to hear a story about a middle-school 800 scorer who gets a second 800 later--that is possible. </p>

<p>Good luck in the application process. Our oldest is a sophomore, so we are one year behind you here.</p>

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<p>There was a thread here last year where kids were comparing their middle school SAT grades with the ones they got as juniors. Most kids did about 50 points better in each section (at least if they'd scored in the 600s), some lower scorers did even better. There was only one kid who did worse or the same - he'd gotten 750/750 the first time round.</p>

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<p><a href="http://talk.collegeconfidential.com/showthread.php?t=78732%5B/url%5D"&gt;http://talk.collegeconfidential.com/showthread.php?t=78732&lt;/a> </p>

<p>And for some onlookers, maybe this thread </p>

<p><a href="http://talk.collegeconfidential.com/showthread.php?t=377882%5B/url%5D"&gt;http://talk.collegeconfidential.com/showthread.php?t=377882&lt;/a> </p>

<p>will be helpful for advice about what besides test scores matters in college admission.</p>

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<br>


<br>

<p>Amother: Welcome back. time flies. I remember your S being in middle school and now he is a junior!..
I gather that, because of the delay, your S took the SAT in October of his 9th grade, right? So these scores will show up on his SAT score report. They are excellent. So one is 760 instead of a perfect 800, but as far as colleges are concerned, a 760 is the same as a 800. It is within range. If at all possible, I would not ask your son to retake. there is always the likelihood that he would do worse!</p>

<p>So please ask the National Merit corporation if he can submit his 9th grade SAT or if he really has to retake. Of course, ordinarily, most students take the SAT after the PSAT (the P standing fof preliminary, preparatory or something like that). But I do not see a requirement that the SAT be taken after the PSAT. With this score, he will surely qualify for NMF as long as he does well on the PSAT, which he should do, gets good recs and write a decent essay.<br>
Has he begun to take SATIIs?</p>

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<p>Tokenadult,
I think we had this conversation about what constituted a qualifying confirming SAT score on a previous thread a few months back.</p>

<p>Here are the regulations for the 2007 finalists (last year):
<a href="http://www.nationalmerit.org/Merit_R&I_Leaflet.pdf%5B/url%5D"&gt;http://www.nationalmerit.org/Merit_R&I_Leaflet.pdf&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/p>

<p>Their qualifying SAT score had to be taken between October 2004 (beginning of their sophomore year) and December 2006 (midway through their senior year). For kids who will be announced as semifianlists this fall, the qualifying SAT would therefore be between Oct. 05 (fall of soph year) and Dec. 2007 (midway through senior year).</p>

<p>It appears the GC in this case is CORRECT. Extraordinary freshman year scores will not serve as confirmation for NMSF.</p>

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<p>My daughter used her seventh grade SAT scores for a CTY program after her sophomore year of HS. Your son may be able to qualify using his 5th grade scores.</p>

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<p>First, let me apologize to OP, I am feeling I hijacked this thread, I didn't intend
to do so when I first posted. so very sorry for grabbing some of the attentions.</p>

<p>Countingdown: </p>

<p>Thanks for the link, now we know we just have to do it.</p>

<p>tokenadult: </p>

<p>Thanks for the link for college information session, yes, we will be attending some of those meetings. </p>

<p>Just like you mentioned, many middle schooler did well on SAT I due to their mathcount practice, I guess that's what happened to my son too. In high school, Math competition and classes are very different with SAT I (he is taking multivariable calculus and statistic for math part), the reason they may not do well is not due to they can't solve the problem but mostly out of careless. Anyway, I will report back to you for my son's second time SAT I score, being it bad or good. </p>

<p>Marite:</p>

<p>So nice to see you again here, it's amazing you still remember me and my son, for me, I always remember you and your help.</p>

<p>Yes, time flies. Son has been doing well. He passed the USAMO in his freshmen year and went into MOps, took one semester's physics on 9th gr and qualified as Physics Olympiad semifinalist, and somehow believes that he loves Physics more then math, so started to self-study physics on 10th gr, ( still goes to all kinds of math competition though, just don't practice that much). On May of this year, he took 5 AP's , all scored 5, including Phy C--mechanics and Phy C--Electricity& Magnisum, the two physics that he self studied. This year, he is self studying Optics and Thermodynamics, taking Quantum physics and Physical-chemistry at school, he also practice volleyball , does piano competition and is learning guitar. That's why I was saying he is in a very tight time schedule. I kept telling him he needs to slow down a little, but so far, he doesn't seem to feel any stress or pressured from what he is doing, so I just left him alone, let him do what ever he wants to. I think I am bragging too much about my son, I will stop now.</p>

<p>How is your son doing? Is he about to graduate from college now? I know he is a extremely smart boy, so he must be doing well too.</p>

<p>Best Regards.</p>

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<p>Amother:</p>

<p>Wow! What a record. You have every reason to brag, don't be so modest.
I don't think your S should worry about NMF status with all the accolades he's received. He is sure to receive huge merit aid if he applies to schools that give merit aid. The concern you would have is if he wants to apply to need-based schools, and whether your family would qualify. Those need-based schools don't give scholarships to NMFs, so it is your call whether to ask him to take the SAT again.</p>

<p>My S is about to return to school, as a junior. Another two years!</p>

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<p>Re CTY scholarships: They state that they are generally reserved for families with income below $60K. My S attended for 4 years, and each year we paid the initial deposit amount (I can't remember how much it is--maybe $800?--and he was awarded the remainder--at least $1300, possibly more--as a scholarship.) The application requires submitting a copy of your tax return, but that's it as far as I recall. You can look into it on their web site for more information.</p>

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<p>What's a "good" SAT score for a freshman?</p>

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<p>I'm not sure how to answer that question. There are posters here whose kids have achieved perfect scores on either verbal or math SATs as 7th graders, but clearly they are exceptional. On the CTY website, you can see the SAT scores that are required for different grades in order to be accepted into their programs. I believe that only 0.5% of the general population can achieve these threshold scores.</p>

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<p>Hi, I got 71 in my math PSAT in my freshman year. Will this be good enough to get into CTY’s genetics or neuroscience course(intensive studies)? I know its above the cutoff score but I’m not sure how competitive CTY is. I’ve never participated in any of their programs (including their talent search) before.</p>

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<p>AFAIK CTY requires the full SAT, not the PSAT. Unless it has changed. Check the web site.</p>