Should elite schools be expanding capacity?

[1NJParent]

The use of the familiar names of Einstein or Mozart is just to illustrate a point. Talents at a level much below these two also have a natural component.

[ucbalumnus]

@Thorsmom66

In fact, most graduates of elite schools will go on to live more or less “normal” lives (although they may be better paid).

But is the “normal” for the upper edge of upper middle class really that “normal” in the context of society as a whole?

[vpa2019]

@Bill_Marsh

David Hogg was admitted to Harvard based on his accomplishments. His 4.2 wGPA from an affluent suburban high school was in line with the wGPA of the average admitted Harvard student.

Just an aside. Hogg’s SAT was around 1290 and the other kid in his class admitted to Harvard had a 5.345 wGPA so Hogg’s 4.2 wGPA and his SAT were well below what Harvard would accept for his HS grading system. He had been rejected from 4 UC schools already that year.

He got in because he was a media celebrity.

[tsbna44]

He got in because he was a media celebrity.

That’s disingenuous to say. Yes, he had publicity - but he is not a celebrity and that minimizes everything he has accomplished - which is far more in his brief life then most accomplish in his full life…regardless of if you agree with his position.

Again, college is about far more than school. He’s a huge asset.

[blossom]

@ucbalumnus

But is the “normal” for the upper edge of upper middle class really that “normal” in the context of society as a whole?

There are plenty of elite college graduates teaching third grade language arts, working as social workers, pastors, librarians, etc. Are those professions now classified as the “upper edge of upper middle class”???

[hebegebe]

@Bill_Marsh

David Hogg had a 4.2 wGPA at a very competitive high school. He was a very strong high school student - so strong that his wGPA puts him at the median or slightly above (4.18) of Harvard students, potentially the strongest group of students in the country.

The only blemish - if we can call it that - was a 1270 on his SAT, which is not exactly a low score. We know that high school grades are a better predictor of college grades than the SAT is. So why should he be considered a risk?

@vpa2019 put Hogg’s GPA in context, and his SAT score seems to correspond to his class rank. They reinforce each other as describing him as an above average student at a good but not exceptional high school. There are hundreds of thousands of students with similar academic achievements graduating each year. That’s why I call him a risk bet.

[vpa2019]

We can agree to disagree. He became well known because the media chose to cover and promote him. Whether he is an asset is an opinion.

[tsbna44]

I’m not taking a political position here. Yes a horrible tragedy and media attention brought him to the forefront. But is he taking a lead ? Yes

[Bill_Marsh]

vpa2019, can you give a source for your gpa numbers? I’m not finding anything close to that. 3.9 GPA and 4.18 wGPA is what I’m finding.

David Hogg did not get into Harvard because he’s a celebrity. Kim Kardashian is a celebrity, but she’s not getting into Harvard. Hogg got in because he accomplished something post trauma, which is extraordinarily rare for someone of his age. Less well known from Parkland and therefore nowhere near the celebrity that Hogg was, Jaclyn Corin also got into Harvard based on what she too accomplished as a leader and organizer of the #NeverAgain movement.

[vpa2019]

I’m not either. I’m saying Hogg was an average student and Harvard wouldn’t have given him a second glance until he became famous. No different than movie stars, their kids or world leaders’ kids.

[hebegebe]

Here is a NY Times article that describes another Marjorie Douglas student that was initially accepted to Harvard and then rescinded (rightly IMO) for racist remarks.

Racist Comments Cost Conservative Parkland Student a Place at Harvard...

And here is the section on SAT and GPA:

… Mr. Hogg had a 4.2 grade point average and scored 1270 on the SAT test, while Mr. Kashuv said in the interview that he had a 5.4 G.P.A., and a 1550 SAT score.

[tsbna44]

I doubt it. See Lori Laughlin Felicity Huffman

If their kids were accomplished then perhaps they could get in because they add a different dimension. Hence successful teen actors get in.

[vpa2019]

Racist Comments Cost Conservative Parkland Student a Place at Harvard...

On Monday, Mr. Kashuv’s defenders noted that Mr. Hogg had a 4.2 grade point average and scored 1270 on the SAT test, while Mr. Kashuv said in the interview that he had a 5.4 G.P.A., and a 1550 SAT score.

Kim may not, although I’d be interested to see what would happen if she did apply, but plenty of celebrities go to elite schools.

[Bill_Marsh]

Hebegebe, what was David Hogg’s class rank at Marjorie Stoneman Douglas HS? I haven’t seen that reported anywhere.

The fact that there are hundreds of thousands of other students with his academic achievements is irrelevant to whether he can do the work. Grades are the result of hard work and persistence, not genius.I don’t believe that Harvard saw Hogg as a risk at all.

[Bill_Marsh]

That article is behind a pay wall. The part you excerpted says that Kashuv’s claimed GPA was 5.4, not the average Harvard admit

[eyemgh]

@1NJParent

Nurturing by itself, however, won’t produce the next Einstein or Mozart.

There is a pretty significant body of evidence that shows that nurturing played a FAR larger role in most “prodigies” that we realize. Cal Newport goes deeply into this in So Good They Can’t Ignore you. Mozart for example was driven hard by his father, a composer, from about age 3. Contrary to myth, he didn’t pop out of the womb playing piano. That’s not to discount raw horse power, but much of that is predicated on previous experience and work ethic.

[vpa2019]

Two actresses in that scam doesn’t show the whole story.

Harrison Ford’s kid is at Amherst for example. Plenty of celebrities have attended elite schools.

Celebrities Accepted to Ivy League Colleges, Universities

22 celebrities who went to college after they became famous

Malia Obama just picked Harvard — here's where America's other 'first kids'...

[vpa2019]

He was admitted to Harvard. Based on an actual application before the shooting. And how is a 5.3 wGPA not in line with Harvard stats?

Bottom line is Hogg was an average student period.

[Bill_Marsh]

Vpa2019, Hogg was an “A” student in high school. That’s not average. Neither is 1270; average on the SAT is 1000.

His situation is nothing at all like movie stars’ kids or world leaders’ kids. Those kids did absolutely nothing to achieve any special status. Hogg’s stature was the result of his own accomplishments. That’s what Harvard saw, and that’s what Harvard liked. More comparable to movie stars’ kids would be Jared Kushner, whose uncle bought Jared’s admission to Harvard when it was far less competitive than it is now.

Harvard didn’t give him a second look the first time around because he never applied there when he was in school. His application in 2018 was his first attempt there, and Harvard jumped all over it, EA.

[Bill_Marsh]

Gpa2019, who was admitted to Harvard before the shooting?