Should engineers with only a B.S make more than...

College Majors Engineering Majors
201

<p>
[quote]
sakky, the prospective engineer phds drop out because they can't hack it at grad schools or they're just sick of grad school (they would've gotten a phd had they wanted)?

[/quote]
</p>

<p>Probably more of the latter, although the two reasons are somewhat intertwined. While relatively few PhD students are actually expelled from their programs involuntarily, many of them find out that they are interested in something else and hence just don't have the desire to put in the work to complete the program (although they probably could if they really wanted to). For example, they see their old undergrad buddies who went straight to industry and who are progressing along nicely in their careers and decide that they ought to do the same. Similarly, many PhD students decide that they'd rather get a more marketable degree such as a law degree or MD. Some grad students are able to find the job that they want without having to finish their programs. This seems to be quite common in some technical programs, i.e. arguably the greatest attrition "threat" to Stanford EE/CS grad students consists of students deciding to drop out to launch their own startup firm. Finally, and probably the biggest threat of all, is that many grad students get married, have kids, and then decide that they would rather invest their time in their families.</p>

202

<p>
[quote]
the prospective engineer phds drop out because they can't hack it at grad schools or they're just sick of grad school (they would've gotten a phd had they wanted)?

[/quote]
</p>

<p>Sometimes they decide that they'd rather dig their eyeballs out with a grapefruit spoon than live for another half-decade in Champaign-Urbana...</p>

203

<p>lol; it's finals time here at Urbana-Champaign--i can't wait to go home already.</p>

204

<p>sakky, do they usually leave with a Masters or they won't even bother with it?</p>

205

<p>Most leave with just their masters' degrees; it only takes a year or so. By the time you figure out that you don't want to stick around for a PhD, it's worth it to finish out the MS.</p>

206

<p>Thanks for the info! Do most schools allow PhD students to get a MS on the way?</p>

207

<p>Definitely. The vast majority of PhD students will get their MS prior to getting their PhD.</p>

208

<p>Thanks aibarr..</p>

209

<p>Is there any stigma (or academic/professional suicide) to be admitted to a PhD program and to quit after the MS? After all, you would have taken the spot of somebody who may have actually finished the program.</p>

210

<p>None that I've encountered. Getting a PhD is a very difficult thing, and if anything, the folks who continue on to get their PhDs when you've decided to bail will look upon your situation longingly and wish that they were making a real engineering salary, as well! If there were a stigma attached to quitting after picking up a masters degree, there'd be a lot of outcast engineers in the profession... It's a pretty common thing to do. =)</p>

211

<p>To the OP: if you think PhDs in other subjects should make more than engineers with BS degrees, then start your own company and pay PhDs more than BS engineers. Sheesh.</p>

212

<p>I am currently in my 2nd year of chemical engineering undergrad. I am seriously considering changing majors. First to answer VT's questions (if he is still around), I think that if anything engineers don't get paid enough. I believe the consensus that engineers have the highest starting salaries for BS degrees is true. I know a few who started at 80K (working with oil companies, b/c they pay the most) and others who after a few years at work proved themselves and are earning 100K (through several performance raises). I think it really depends on who you work for. But I digress. To echo a few others' posts...ENGINEERING IS HARD AS HELL! You really have to love it or find it interesting which I steadily am not. My friends in every other major (besides the heavy science/math/grad) are amazed at how much my classmates and I have to study.
I realize after working a couple internships that salaries tend to cap out early on and you must get an MBA or other type of advanced degree to get the $$$$$.</p>

213

<p>Power of Compounding - Finance Kampung - Why</a> Invest? | Finance Kampung</p>

<p>One of the reasons why you should invest young is the power of compounding. When you put capital into an investment, the capital would generate a return year after year. But thats not all! The returns that you get after the first year, also generate a return for the next year onwards, and so forth.</p>

<p>Looking at it another way, lets compare 2 people and their lifetime savings habit. Peter does a lot of part time work and likes to read up on investments. Starting at 15 years old, he started to save $1000 a year in an investment that gives him 12% per year. After 10 years, he decides to enjoy life. Not putting a single cent into his investment account, he spends all his money travelling, partying and slacking. He did keep his investment account and swears not to ever touch it.</p>

<p>Bob is a good friend of Peter. Having been caught up with fashion trends and consumerism, he spends all the money he earns on toys, gadgets and parties. When he reached 40, he woke up. Both his parents are retiring and they barely have any money in their retirement account. He panics and then starts to save $10,000 every year for the next 25 years of his life.</p>

<p>Guess who has more when they are both 65 years old? Peter, after putting away $1000 a year for 10 years, has $1.6million by the age of 65, whereas Bob who scrimped and saved $10,000 per year for 25 years only has just under a $1million. While both of them aren't exactly going to struggle through retirement, but its obvious how the 50 years of compounding has helped Peter with his money.</p>

<p>Having an engineer salary early in life is not a bad thing to have.</p>

<p>In a pefcet world:</p>

<p>You have saved $100,000 by age 30.
You invest it in a high interest fund/stocks, 30% is realistic for top funds.
At age 45 you will have $5,118,589</p>

214

<p>
[quote]
You invest it in a high interest fund/stocks, 30% is realistic for top funds.

[/quote]
</p>

<p>Uh, 30% is realistic? Really? If you really believe that, then I think you you clearly chose the wrong profession, and you should be taking a job on Wall Street.</p>

<p>I'll put it to you this way. David Swensen is widely regarded as a master investor as the head of the Yale Endowment. Yet in even the best year, which was last year, the Yale Endowment realized "only" 28% returns, and over Swensen's entire tenure, the endowment has realized "only" 16% annual returns (which are by far the best returns of any college endowment in the world). Yet Swensen has been regarded as being so successful that his methodology has been dubbed the "Yale Model".</p>

<p>Yale</a> Finance Guru Out Front Of Rocketing Endowment Growth, - CBS News
David</a> F. Swensen - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia</p>

<p>Now, if you say that it is reasonable for somebody to earn 30% annual returns, maybe you ought to tell guys like Swensen. Heck, maybe you should replace Swensen because he is clearly doing a terrible job, even though everybody apparently thinks he's a genius.</p>

215

<p>
[quote]
A couple of the industry's top funds -- quant-trading powerhouse Renaissance Technologies' Renaissance Medallion Fund and ESL Investments' flagship ESL Partners -- each would have likely merited a spot. Both boasted returns of at least 35% annually for the three years through 2006. But we weren't able to obtain dependable year-to-date figures for either of them.

[/quote]
</p>

<p>
[quote]
At the top: RAB Special Situations (up an average of 47.69% a year for three years), The Children's Investment Fund (44.27%), Highland CDO Opportunity (44.12%), BTR Global Opportunity (43.42%) and SR Phoenica (43.10).

[/quote]
</p>

<p>Granted these are all on 3 year averages, in a perfect world they would be 10 year averages.</p>

<p>High</a> Performance - Barrons.com</p>

216

<p>
[quote]
A couple of the industry's top funds -- quant-trading powerhouse Renaissance Technologies' Renaissance Medallion Fund and ESL Investments' flagship ESL Partners -- each would have likely merited a spot. Both boasted returns of at least 35% annually for the three years through 2006. But we weren't able to obtain dependable year-to-date figures for either of them.
Quote:
At the top: RAB Special Situations (up an average of 47.69% a year for three years), The Children's Investment Fund (44.27%), Highland CDO Opportunity (44.12%), BTR Global Opportunity (43.42%) and SR Phoenica (43.10).
Granted these are all on 3 year averages, in a perfect world they would be 10 year averages.</p>

<p>High Performance - Barrons.com

[/quote]
</p>

<p>Yeah, well, clearly the biggest problem with that is then identifying these funds ex-ante. Sure, we can always look back at old data and identify some funds that are doing well, because there are always some funds that do well. But how do you know which ones beforehand? It's like walking into a casino and deciding which slot machine to put my money in. I know that one of them is due to give me the jackpot. But how do I know which one? </p>

<p>I believe several academic studies have shown that hedge funds in aggregate do not actually produce above-market returns, especially after subtracting out fees. The funds that do very well are cancelled out by the ones who do very poorly (i.e. consider the 2 Bear Stearns funds that went in the tank after years of good performance). In fact, I strongly suspect that the "Highland CDO Opportunity" (or, heck, any fund that has the term "CDO" in its name) probably hasn't done well recently, given the severe troubles in the structured finance market in the last year.</p>