Totally agree with @shuttlebus . These conversations sound nothing like what we heard from coaches. The communication regarding the pre-read, Admissions, ED1 and ED2 was very clear. The communication you’re receiving is very nebulous to me.
Anyone can tell you to apply ED1/2 (for that matter, anyone can apply ED1/2). That doesn’t mean that you have full coach support. Full coach support comes with the pre-read followed by a positive result (green light) from Admissions (not the coach). The coach will then ask you to apply ED1/ED2 for that spot/support, and should tell you that you have full support. It’s similar to a quid pro quo situation…“I’ll give you this for that”. There should be no gray areas.
There are definitely athletes who apply and get in without coach support. In turn, there are definitely kids who are denied without that full support. I see it happen all the time, and have had athletes who experienced both sides.
That said, I’d just be very careful where you throw your ED card (you’re only given one shot at ED1). Seeming “positive enough” just doesn’t do it for me. Also, if possible, try and get yourself to an OVN at schools with the team, cast a wide net of schools and certainly have a back up plan just in case.
Agree 100% with@shuttlebus. There was no question/ambiguity with S. The coaches from where he got offers 1) actively recruited him; 2) asked for his transcript, unofficial ACT/SAT report, and senior year classes to give to the AO; 3) at OV told him directly he was a top choice, and that if he applied ED, there was a 90%+ certainty that he would get accepted (the only way he would not be accepted was to screw up in the interim).
Reading your description of your interaction with the coach does not give me the warm and fuzzies. It sounds like the coach is dancing around. It is true that applying ED is going to help, but this is true of whether you are an athletic recruit or not. Yes, he can write a letter of support, but that is very different than offering you one of his limited guaranteed slots. If he is telling you to “work harder”, it implies the decision is going to be driven by the AO vs the AO more or less signing off on the coach’s recruit list if the athletes getting slots meet some minimum academic hurdle individually and as a group (NESCAC schools generally work with academic bands).
If this school is your first choice and you do not have a slot at a school you would like to go to, then go ahead and ED when the time comes. If there are other schools out there you would rather attend and this is not a true slot, I’d consider whether to ED there or this school. In any event you need to ask the direct questions to the coach, 1)Are you giving me one of your recruit slots?; 2)Have I passed the pre-read with the AO: 3) What are my chances if I apply ED with this support, and historically what is your success rate? Many coaches will play the ambiguity game, especially with recruits further down the list, because there is always a game of musical chairs around Sept/Oct as the top recruits who are on multiple lists begin to select their schools. However, ethical coaches have no problems answering these questions straight up if asked directly.
D3 conferences may also be quite different in the formality of the process and the value of the coaches support. The advice you are getting for the NESCAC conference for example is spot on. I wouldn’t think you were getting full support there based on the ambuquity of the conversations you describe . I’m not sure about other D3 conferences though.
“Recruiting” in general means a coach is interested in you as an athlete. They recruit multiple athletes, especially early in the process (think any time prior to spring/summer junior year). Different schools and different sports, male and female, may have slightly different timelines and process, but generally they begin with a fairly long list of recruits. These are kids they will correspond with/talk to at an individual level.
In terms of D3’s, as you approach summer before senior year, the coaches begin to cull their lists based on athletic talent, needs and academics. If you are still on one of these lists, you are still being recruited. So yes, it sounds like you are still being “recruited”. However, during this time the coaches are also ranking their lists. They normally ask this now shorter list of recruits for unofficial transcripts, score reports and senior class list for submission to the AO for a preread sometime during the summer. They have a limited number of allocated slots in most cases where if they use the slot for you and the AO signs off on your academics, you are almost guaranteed admissions. This is what you want. Depending on the school, the coach may also be allowed a limited number of “tips”, these are support letters that the AO will consider but they are under no pressure to accept the student, whereas if they gave a positive preread to a slotted student, they rarely change their minds. How much power a “tip” has varies by school, sport and coach. Often a coach will take a gamble by only offering a “tip” to a high academic kid who he/she thinks will get in with just a tip so that he/she can save a slot for a lower academic recruit. Normally in late summer/fall the coaches will approach their top recruits and communicate that the recruit has a “slot” if he/she commits to applying ED. As the lists begin to firm up, some kids confirming they will apply ED, others declining, the coaches move down their lists based on talent and academic qualification. If a highly talented but low band athlete commits, the next athletically ranked recruit may be out because he/she is also low band and the coach is out of low band slots. So you see, it is always in the interest of a coach to keep multiple (but a manageable number) of recruits on the line.
Ok, I’ve posted this before, and wasn’t prepared to say which school, but we’re done with the process and I am more comfortable getting more specific.
2 years ago, same sport, same coach we had a teammate going through this process and got a positive preread from this school, went on official visit, got “full coach support” from this school, and did not get accepted. Furthermore, after the ED1 results came out, the coach sent an email saying “ED2 deadline is coming up, here are the things to make sure you get done and make sure to include in your application”. Teammate sent a follow up email that said - “Um, I thought you knew, I applied EDI and was not admitted”. Coach response - “sorry, sent that to the wrong “John”.
This kid has landed at a great school, D1 instead, but it soured our experience and knowledge of the program at the school you are looking at. Be wary and make sure you have alternate schools with applications in by their deadlines for regular admission or for EDII (if available). As far as we can tell this is not a team that has “slots” where admissions is more certain after the preread.
Also - you’ve mentioned before that you are international. You might ask follow up questions regarding how that might change the admissions picture for you.
Finally, when you do put in your application, be very careful to check that you are applying for the anew York campus only. Their applications for Shanghai and Abu Dabi are the same, and it’s just a matter of hitting the right check boxes whether you are applying to one or all three, with no sports at the two international campuses, you have to be at the NY campus to swim.
I do believe that NYU is one of those schools (think MIT, Chicago) where coach support does not mean what it means in the NESCAC. Soft support at NYU falls more into the “soft” category than the “support” category. It would be best to ask all of the suggested questions to fully understand the risk that you are taking.
@gointhruaphase yes you are probably right. i feel the same too. but i do think NYU has a tiny bit (really a little bit) more of a pull than MIT or Chicago.
@MrDiaz If NYU is your first choice and your family can afford it, then ask the coach to answer the following kinds of questions: are you supporting me as a recruit with Admissions; how many athletes with my academic portfolio whom you’ve provided the same level of support have been admitted/deferred/rejected in the last (5 or so) years; do I have a spot on the team if I’m admitted ED; are there try outs; are recruits cut before the first season of competition.
A different sport at NYU, but I understand that a Men’s program had no recruiting spots and did open tryouts, every year, for the team. So ask questions to make sure you know you have support, a spot, have passed a pre-read or have other indication of admission chances.
I think the key is what @Midwestmomofboys said is key on the affordability from. NYU is notoriously stingy and I’m not sure how that is handled for international students.
I just checked with a close friend whose kid ended up as an athlete at NYU (baseball). I had thought his son’s process was the same as my S, but the way he described it to me was there were no guarantees, although the coach did provide guidance on scores my friend’s son had to hit to maximize his chances along with applying ED, with a target score where he felt pretty confident his support would get his recruits in. It also mattered which department/school within NYU was being targeted.
Yeah i fully understand now. I am targeting at NYU SPS which is considered the easiest one to get in. Im not choosing SPS to maximize acceptance chance instead my genuine interest is real estate which is in SPS so…thanks for advice everyone really appreciate it.