Working towards getting a PhD in Psychology.
I completed my masters in Psychology from India and moved to the US. Got my degree evaluated by ECE and it is equal to graduate in the US so I am eligible to apply for PhD program. However, I have got into a Masters program to be a licensed therapist from a reputed college, which will take me 5 years and is in the town where I currently live but I want to do a PhD for which I have to move out of the town. Should I do Masters and live in the town I am settled in or get out of my comfort zone? What are my chances of getting into PhD without any research background but extensive life experiences?
Ph.D. programs are hard to get into. But IMO they are the better programs for producing the best-trained therapists. The research component helps you to understand how to evaluate the field as it changes moving forward.
I vote Ph.D. if you want to be the most effective therapist.
Thank you so much for your suggestion. I am leaning towards PhD for sure and have researched the top 3 universities i would like to apply to. My GPA is 3.4 and I have a keen interest in the topic I want to research in. Hope i get it. How easy is GRE? I am preparing for this exam now.
So most masters programs and professional degree programs are 2 years full time, and if part time they tend to be 3 year programs. A PsyD or PhD program will be at least 5 years.
PhD programs are much more competitive and require that you already have a pretty extensive research background while you were in undergrad, some volunteer or other related experience, and a high GPA with acceptable GRE scores. They aren’t as considerate of your overall history and life experience as are masters level programs. A 3.4 GPA is an average GPA when it comes to graduate school applicants, to be honest, and PhD programs in clinical psychology are some of the most competitive programs in the country. I don’t mean to say you shouldn’t apply, and I don’t know what your area universities are like in terms of how competitive they are, but I’d really consider if you should put all your hopes on a PhD program.
I would strongly suggest you also consider applying to masters programs like counseling psychology, MFT, or maybe explore the MSW degree. I started out thinking I wanted to pursue a PhD or PsyD, but after considering my options I chose to earn an MSW degree (master of social work) and I’ll pursue licensure after that and become an LCSW (licensed clinical social worker) which would make me a “psychotherapist.”
There are advantages to a PhD in clinical psychology, such as the fact that often these degrees will cost you far less $$$ because you will usually work as a TA while you are in graduate school, especially in large public universities, but that’s not always the case. If you pursue an PsyD, it’s a doctorate but with a bit more emphasis on clinical practice than research, but these aren’t offered at public universities, only private schools, and private school PsyD programs usually cost well over 100k.
PhD programs are highly competitive programs and take AT LEAST 5 years to complete, followed by usually around 3000 hours of supervised experience, which often takes about 3 years, before you can actually test for a license, which means before you can start your own practice you will be in school and gaining experience for at a minimum 8 years, probably closer to 9 years from when you start graduate school. Not all PhD programs really train you for psychotherapy very well, many are really focused on research and you pursuing a career as a professor and researcher, not so much you spending the majority of your career doing therapy.
I don’t disagree with the above post by Dusty, but it’s not as simple as just getting into any PhD program that is a psychology focus, you really need to investigate which programs are capable of providing you the kind of experience, education, and training you want. That’s why I think considering a masters level professional degree like an MFT or MSW or masters in counseling psychology might be worth considering, because you will still get a ton of training on how to do therapy. Again, masters programs aren’t 5 years usually, actually I’ve never heard of that. What that might mean is that after the usually 2 year masters program you have to earn usually around 3000 hours of supervised experience which takes most people about 3 years before you can become fully licensed, for a total of 5 years before you can open your own practice.
You still need to be careful about choosing those programs though, not all are up to the task necessarily, and you MUST make sure that whatever program you apply to be it PhD PsyD or masters level is an accredited program in your state, and or in the state you plan to practice in.
Let me know if you have questions and I’ll follow up, just saying my friend, my dear friend, this isn’t a simple decision to make you have a lot of research ahead of you to determine what programs are good for you and what programs you will be a good candidate for.
mod note: edited to break into paragraphs for clarity.
Why would the master’s degree also take you 5 years? Most master’s programs in this field take two years full-time. Would this be a part-time program for you?
Very low. Clinical psychology PhD programs are very competitive, and even good mid-ranked ones want to see some research experience. You should also have clinical volunteering experience to be competitive (like volunteering in a hospital, mental health clinic, rehabilitation center, etc.)
If you are seriously interested in doing a PhD, then you should find a way to get research experience.
Whether you should get a master’s or a PhD is really up to you and your career goals. Master’s level therapists can practice the same kind of talk therapy that a PhD-trained psychologist could. As someone mentioned, the additional preparation you get from a PhD program is going to turn you into a scientist-practitioner - someone who is skilled at consuming the latest research about the areas in which you work and selectively applying it to your practice. PhD holders also sometimes have easier times finding certain types of jobs and have the option to go into teaching classes, either part-time as an adjunct or full-time as a professor. Reimbursement rates from insurance companies also tend to be higher when you have a doctoral degree.
However, being competitive for a PhD program in clinical psychology will take you a significant amount of prep if you have no research background and no clinical volunteering experience. So if you wanted a route that you could enter right now, a master’s degree would be the way to go.
PsyD programs typically are in-between - fewer research requirements than a PhD, but more than a master’s. Still, as BackNSchool noted above, they tend to mostly be at pricy private schools and don’t offer any funding, meaning that most people pay them out of personal resources or loans.
Thank you, Juillet. However, this year I have made a decision to drop out of the Masters program hoping to give my best shot at PhD program. My biggest challenge is GRE!!! hahaha… I do have volunteer and counseling experience…
Yes, this was a part-time course and hence taking 5 years (2 years +1 internship +2 to collect 3000 hours) and no international internship considered. And I am sure about doing a research in Human EMOTIONS because I believe emotions have tremendous strength and energy to help us live and cope with life. More than experience, i am passionate about the topic. I am going to reach out to colleges and professors to ask them more information.
What is your take on this?
and How important is GRE? the score?
Thank you, backnschool83. However, this year I have made a decision to drop out of the Masters program hoping to give my best shot at PhD program. My biggest challenge is GRE!!! hahaha… I do have volunteer and counseling experience but in a different country…
Yes, this was a part-time course and hence taking 5 years (2 years +1 internship +2years to collect 3000 hours) and no international internship considered. And I am sure about doing a research in Human EMOTIONS because I believe emotions have tremendous strength and energy to help us live and cope with life. More than experience, i am passionate about the topic. I am going to reach out to colleges and professors to ask them more information. And i am interested in doing PhD in Counseling Psychology with research on human emotions. My thoughts are to understand emotions better to become a finer therapist.
What is your take on this?
and How important is GRE? the score?
If you don’t have research experience, you will not be competitive for PhD programs in counseling psychology. Therefore, you should get some research experience in psychology/mental health before attempting to apply to PhD programs. Volunteer/counseling experience is necessary, too, but research experience is more important.
Reaching out to professors when you have a good handle on what you want to do is a good idea, but I’d wait until you’ve got a more fleshed out idea of what you want to do first. Doing research on “human emotions” is a really nebulous, vague area - there are lots of ways you can take that.
For example, you can focus on the social function of emotion - how human emotions like embarassment or awe help us (and hurt us) in social interactions with other, like Dacher Kelter at UC-Berkeley (https://psychology.berkeley.edu/people/dacher-keltner). Or you could investigate how humans regulate their own emotions and deal with social anxiety, like James Gross at Stanford (https://profiles.stanford.edu/james-gross?tab=research-and-scholarship). Or you could investigate the impact of social group membership on people’s emotions, like Jennifer Richeson at Yale (https://psychology.yale.edu/people/jennifer-richeson).
Once you have some research experience and/or have read some articles in the field, you can narrow down your interest area and therefore narrow the professors you contact to ones doing work close to what you want to do. You can also ask more intelligent, targeted questions.
The GRE is important but not the most important part of your app. You should aim to get above a 155 (and ideally, above a 160) on each section. But while GRE scores can keep you out of grad school (if you score too low), scoring highly won’t outweigh other more important factors.
A PsyD program is great preparation for clinical work, if you want clinical work instead of research.
Wow!! Thank you Juillet… I appreaciate your helpful information. Now by research I am yet to understand if I have to do in a lab or an environment where people are on their best behavior? I am definitely going to look up the articles you shared and read more about it… Thank you…
My research on Emotions is based on “How do people from different cultures & backgrounds deal with the same mishap like death?” .
I have lived in Asia (india/Hongkong ) Europe (Switzerland)and US (Midwest) : seen different cultures express emotions differently… so is it an environmental factor or upbringing is what I want to learn… I also want to understand how did technology (use of mobile phone) fill the huge gap in our life so soon? Asia being heavily populated, people are constantly on their phone… whereas in Bhutan and Switzerland I observed people sitting down to eat and being relaxed minus the phone…
did the smart phone tap into some kind of emotional gap in us?? “Human connection” Gap!!
I have also lived with a very angry and abusive man (anger being his sole emotion) To him being kind and thoughtful in 5 years … how he re-directed his angry energy to do something productive and to work with unresolved issues within himself.
I also have a long theory on happiness …
Hahahha … so yes, these are my research outside the lab…
GRE because my mathematics is not that strong… I am good with people, communication and listening … numbers somehow don’t make sense to me… but I will practice and try to give it my best shot… 
The 3 links that you shared are my gold mine… Thank you once again.
I am going to research more and connect with them. It is good to know that people are researching on Human emotions & studying the change in diversity. I believe I am a good candidate for PhD and will give it my best …
Thank you once again Juillet…
Now to work on that GRE !! Haha…
Hi Jenny,
So as for GRE prep there are books you can order online that are very thick, that cover everything on the GRE. The GRE is very important for a PhD or PsyD program and often it’s an important factor in psychology type masters programs. The only programs I know of that do not require the GRE are some MSW programs who do not care as much about that as they do your GPA and your experience.
You say you want to be a therapist and I think it’s important to understand you can do that and do it well with a masters degree, because masters degrees that are designed to get someone to the level that they can practice therapy are specially designed for that and are often “professional degrees” in that they are not just the half way mark toward completion of a PhD. If you were accepted into a masters degree program and dropped out, I think you should reconsider if it’s not too late.
Again, for you to be a competitive PhD or PsyD applicant, you must have extensive experience conducting research with a professor or multiple professors. A good applicant would have spent their entire undergrad, or most of it, doing research in addition to regular academic studies. Doing research requires training, and you will want your research training to align with standards used by the universities you are applying to. In addition to this, applicants will need to have a competitive GPA which I would argue is closer to a 3.75 and above, in all reality. Now what I described isn’t the minimum requirements, it’s what a competitive applicant looks like, sometimes people who do not have as competitive of an application still are admitted for one reason or another and at one school or another.
I recommend you apply to as many PhD programs as you can. A PsyD is going to cost you 100K+ and I’m not sure it’s the kind of debt you want if you are going to try to establish yourself in the USA. I would fight for PhD programs if anything, because those at least offer funding of some kind and are often at public universities that cost less and have more opportunities for international students. I go to a UC so if you are interested in going to school here in the University of California system, I would apply to schools like UC Riverside, UC Santa Cruz, UC Merced, and as a reach maybe UC Davis, UC San Diego, and UC Irvine. I would apply to other major public universities in the USA in states that are a good fit as well. I would probably try to apply to about 20 programs if possible in your case to give you better odds. Again, if it’s not too late, I would switch to the masters program if it was me, nothing wrong with a masters degree, it’s not looked down upon, you earn just about as much as a licensed psychologist after you earn your license and gain some experience. Just saying.
Just want to mention that in some states you can not practice as a therapist with an MS in psychology. You would need to be a licensed psychologist which requires a Ph.D. or Psy. D. There is also a route through social work, but I do not know the details for that. For the Psych route you need to do internship and a postdoc, at least in my state.
@Jennycolmar - I’m going to be blunt because I want to be helpful…but the things you mentioned don’t count as “research” in the eyes of professors evaluating you for admission to doctoral programs.Those are observations or experiences you have had that have inspired you to or interested you in a particular area. Most people are initially sparked to do research based on things they have observed or experienced. Research, however, is a systematic investigation of those interests to answer questions have about the world.
So for example, your question "How do people from different cultures & backgrounds deal with the same mishap like death?” is a research *question/i, but not research in and of itself. Another research question you’ve thought about is “how do tech devices like mobile phones promote or prevent human interaction and emotional connections?” But again, that’s a research question, not research.
In order to be competitive for a PhD program, you need to have engaged in some kind of research in a research group, usually under the supervision of a professor or some other researcher who has a PhD and a research program. You might do things like help collect data by running experiments in the lab, or running surveys in the field; doing literature searches in academic libraries and databases; helping to analyze data; and/or helping write it, present it, and publish it.
There’s a little bit of nuance to this to get into.
As far as I know, there isn’t any state in the union where you cannot practice some form of counseling/therapy with a master’s degree. However, the truth in this statement lies in 1) what you get your master’s in and 2) what you are officially allowed to be called/titled under state law.
Most master’s programs in psychology will not allow you to obtain a license to practice therapy. For example, if you get an MS in clinical psychology, you can’t practice therapy. However, if you got an MS in another field - like mental health counseling or marriage and family therapy - in all states, I believe, you could become licensed to practice therapy.
However, you wouldn’t be a licensed psychologist. Usually they operate under different titles, like “licensed practical counselor” or “mental health counselor” or “licensed clinical social worker.”
HuffPo has a good article about this: https://www.huffingtonpost.com/marjorie-hansen-shaevitz/post_9154_b_6865002.html