Should I even bother with FinAid?

Parents Forum
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<p>mountains, we were in a similar situation with an EFC of $80k+. Our son did mark the need aid box on his application though and submitted the FAFSA. Only Oberlin required the CSS profile and called them to see if it was necessary to submit. Explaining our situation to them they advised to forego submitting it.</p>

<p>In the end our son was accepted to every college he applied to so checking the need aid box did not seem to hinder him in that regard. In addition he was offered a total of $376k in merit aid so perhaps checking the box helped out some.</p>

<p>However two things to consider. First our son did a lot of research to select those colleges which were generous with merit aid. And secondly, our efc was high because of our investment portfolio and not because of wages.</p>

<p>Finally the only college that was stingy with merit aid was Oberlin. However I do not think this was because of his application and phone call to finaid but due to the fact that it was one of the more selective colleges he applied to.</p>

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<p>I just want to add to the minority opinion here in support of oldfort. My husband has spoken to many people who forego submitting the FAFSA. These are technology people who are wary of putting any more information about themselves out there than is necessary. If a drastic change of circumstances were to ensue, he feels then we would apply -- no real evidence that it would put us at any disadvantage.
Also, none of D's merit aid is FAFSA dependent.
I really appreciate the pros and cons as outlined in this discussion, though. I think I might lean toward filing, but he is adamant.</p>

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<p>My daughter's "need only" school in the Northeast has some grants for students who take unpaid summer internships. However, you can apply only if you have a finaid application on file. If you don't, you are not going to be considered.</p>

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<p>Uskoolfish...glad to hear that Muhlenberg will consider you for financial aid every year even if you didn't apply the first year. My son applied ED to Muhlenberg. We have enough for the first year, but might need to file in the future. He was accepted...with a merit scholarship :)</p>

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<p>Another data point - Williams says you can apply for aid for the first time in any of your four years there.</p>

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<p>My daughter was offered a full ride at a good LAC without school asking for any financial information. Duke also gives out merit scholarships to kids that would otherwise go to HYP. Monetary incentive is used to sway people in making different decision than they would otherwise. It could work for you or against you. You should look at your own financial situation and your kid's credential to decide whether you want to apply for financial aid.</p>

<p>If my EFC is way over cost of school, then it would just appear silly to adcom to see you applying for financial aid, and you would be giving out financial information about youself for free. If your EFC is very close to the cost of the school, the school is need aware(not need blind), and your kid is a borderline candidate then I would apply without financial aid. A need aware school has limited resource, they would want to use the money to sweeten the pot for their top students. When the kid gets accepted, then it's not too late to decide whether it's worth your while to attend. </p>

<p>Every posting I have read and examples I have seen, I don't see the benefit of applying for financial aid when you clearly don't qualify for it. At best it saves you some time if some financial disaster should occur (which I do not even see howw it could save you time), at worst your kid could be judged based on your financial situation. Getting financial aid is not like a lottery - lets apply, we may get lucky. By applying for financial aid when you don't qualify the first year does not put you in front of the que later. </p>

<p>We applied for a student loan for my daughter in Aug through her school because we wanted her to be responsible for some cost. We filled out a very simple form (no tax return), and it was approved in 24 hours.</p>

<p>dbwes - yes, I am in the technology business, less is more.</p>

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<p>After listening to many books that said adcoms hate affluence, it took a friend who had hired a very expensive private counselor to explain it to me. If you don't qualify DON"T check yes--it will not make your kid look less affluent when he lives in your zip code, goes to private or good public and lists pricy summer programs! Much better to check no, make them wonder if you are least successful alum and poorest person in your zip code? Or wonder if you are very wealthy and generous. So much quiet wealth today.</p>

<p>My friends from Penn had a lot of kids not needing aid get in early decision as my son did. Those needing money not so much. These schools are taking almost half thei class ED from places where no money is needed. I thought we had progressed far beyond this. Everyone at Penn isn't main line anymore, Scarsdale, Ross, Grosse Pointe and NYC prep schools now have equal access. Penn didn't feel so elite back then.</p>

<p>BTW, our efc was almost exactly coa and we checjed NO.</p>

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<p>For list of ED/EA acceptances you need a connected counselor or to know someone accepted.</p>

49

<p>For those parents whose EFC were higher than the college costs but opted to apply for finaid for other reasons, were the colleges' calculated EFC close to what you thought they would be?</p>

50

<p>Seems like different college using slightly different formula to calculate. I think oldfort's post is a good strategy.</p>

51

<p>By reading info provided by this thread and others, I am thinking for those borderline candidates but finantially sound yet still need some FA, the best game plan is to apply ED and check 'NO' for FA, increase your chance to get into the ivy. Then either apply FA after enrolled or at 2nd year (this is plan for those desperately want get into this ivy). Or if you got accepted by other, you can ask ED release you based on you cann't afford it (for those change mind during the process or winning other lottery).</p>

<p>I recall my ex working place used to run lunch seminar on 'how to beat college addmission' every. Back then I was either too busy to be bothered or thought it was still early. It would be nice knowing what the strategies they disscussed at seminar.</p>

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<p>anotherNJmom - I am not sure your strategy works. If you do not apply for financial aid, then you cannot be released from ED for any reason. At the same time, if you do not apply for aid the first year, AND your financial situation didn't change later on (more kids in college, job lost...), then school would most likely not give you aid later on.</p>

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<p>DS checked the "yes" box for FA. We are borderline for full pay, but with medical expenses > 10% of income and another sib two years behind. Got our first FA estimate today -- full pay. Not surprised, but we have established the groundwork, and expect we will qualify for FA when DS2 goees to college. Figured it didn't hurt to ask. I didn't pay any attention to which schools were need-blind or not.</p>

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<p>
[quote]
By reading info provided by this thread and others, I am thinking for those borderline candidates but finantially sound yet still need some FA, the best game plan is to apply ED and check 'NO' for FA, increase your chance to get into the ivy.

[/quote]
</p>

<p>At the Ivies, admissions and FA are 2 separate process, they do not share the same space (at some schools they occupy different buildings). With the exception of international students, the school does not know how much $ a student will need (hence the term need blind). </p>

<p>Checking the box merely demonstrates that the family feels that they need aid and is applying for aid. Admissions decisions are made, then a list of names are sent to FA so that they could put together a package.</p>

<p>Most of the time if a family is released from ED for financial reasons (easier said than done because it is the school not the family who determines whether or not they have met your financial need) it is usually to attend the more affordable option (state schools or schools that offer merit money).</p>

<p>Columbia is very upfront when it comes to releasing a family from ED for financial reasons:</p>

<p>
[quote]
</p>

<p>10. Can I be released from my Early Decision contract because of my financial aid package?</p>

<p>It is extremely rare for a family to ask to be released from the Early Decision commitment for financial reasons. There are usually only two or three families each year that ultimately are released for financial aid reasons, and this is normally due to a lack of understanding of need-based aid (i.e., they were expecting merit-based aid, they did not submit complete information when using a financial aid estimator, etc).</p>

<p>IT IS THE FAMILY’S DETERMINATION THAT THEY CANNOT AFFORD TO FINANCE A COLUMBIA EDUCATION THAT ALLOWS THEM TO BE RELEASED FROM THE BINDING EARLY DECISION ADMISSIONS OFFER. The family must first speak with a financial aid officer, before the release is granted. Ultimately, it is the family’s decision whether or not they feel capable of accepting the need-based Columbia financial aid award. </p>

<p>Those who do opt out of their Early Decision contract are released to pursue lower-cost school options, such as state schools and/or schools that award merit aid. The admission offer at Columbia is then cancelled. A candidate who declines Columbia’s Early Decision offer will not be allowed to reconsider Columbia’s financial aid estimate in the spring Regular Decision cycle and will not be able to reinstate the original offer of admission. </p>

<p>Columbia</a> University Office of Undergraduate Admissions - Financial Aid</p>

<p>

[/quote]
</p>

<p>They also issue a joint statement that says"</p>

<p>
[quote]
</p>

<p>Two plans currently are offered by Ivy Group institutions:
A. The College Board-approved Early Decision Plan, which is offered by Brown University, Columbia University, Cornell University, Dartmouth College and the University of Pennsylvania, requires a prior commitment to matriculate. </p>

<p>Financial aid awards for those qualifying for financial assistance will normally
be announced in full detail at the same time as the admissions decisions. An applicant receiving admission and an adequate financial aid award under the Early Decision Plan (remember again, the school determines what is adequate) will be required to accept that offer of admission and
withdraw all applications to other colleges or universities. </p>

<p>All Ivy institutions will honor any required commitment to matriculate which has been made to another college under this plan.

[/quote]
</p>

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<p>We were told by dd's FA office to apply knowing that we likely would not qualify for aid to be eligible for a no-interest payment plan vs. up front payment.</p>

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<p>The important part of the Columbia University ED statement is that IF they choose to release an acceptee, s/he is ONLY allowed to pursue admission at lower cost (i.e. state or "merit aid" schools).</p>

<p>Each school has a financial aid budget, often with clear directions from the college administration as to how to spend it. If they are told to admit more low-income students, they magically find more low-income students. If they are told to hold the budget down, they can do that as well. Every year, consistently, unless new directives are received, the percentages of students receiving no aid remains remarkably static, a tribute to the professionalism of college admissions officers and strong indication that the whole need-blind thing is a scam. None of this has to do with whether they know the need status of any particular applicant.</p>

<p>But they do. A recent first-person account of a reporter sitting in on the Williams admissions process reported on the admissions director actually counting the number and percentage of "socio-ec" (aka "low-income") admits as the process went forward. Clearly there was a target (not too low, and not too high).</p>

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<p>Does it mean then that, need-blind or not, the admissions committee goes over the admissions process with no regard at this point who needs finaid or not, and then finaid department cranks up the $$$ needed by admitted students who have indicated they are applying for finaid. Finally, a final tweaking goes on based on the school's budget. I am just covering the financial aspect of the process. I am sure there is also some tweaking going on in terms of diversity, institutional needs, etc. but those are different discussions.</p>

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<p>"Does it mean then that, need-blind or not, the admissions committee goes over the admissions process with no regard at this point who needs finaid or not..."</p>

<p>No. It means the admissions committees are well-versed in zip codes, ar well connected with GCs, understand how to read resumes, know high schools, and can quite readily pick out those who are "soc-ecs" (you can't increase the number of low-income students unless you know who they are), and are quite capable of reading checkmarks on the front of applications asking whether one is applying for financial aid. They are have STRONG regard "at this point" for who needs finaid aid or not, though they may not yet know the actual amount (though in the case of "soci-ecs", they essentially do, as it is close to full-freight.) </p>

<p>I think we should recognize admissions professionals for the professionals they are.</p>

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<p>Not just zip code. They can also look at parent's profession. It's listed in the application.</p>

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<p>I think it all depends on the schools. Believe those truely rich schools like HYP they have enough FA fund to cover all the applicants. They can afford truely 'need-blind' admission process. Their process would be pretty much like sybbie described. (Actually I heard the exactly the same from one of the ivy info session, forgot which one though). But for those less 5s the fund could be a problem, they may well possible practice 'need-half-blind' or 'need-aware' admission process in reality. It is perticular easy for them to do via ED type admission (like others pointed in this thread) lock down the full fare applicants and those one only need small amount of FA.</p>

<p>Bottom line with large applicants pool from all socialeco classes, ethnics, urm, etc. and considering large number of boardline applicants, they really have a lot room to manuplate. The ones don't manuplate are Cooper Union, Caltech and another school I cant recall name on top of my head at the moment.</p>

<p>Yeah, parent's profession can also tell you something. For columbia with large amount students coming in triangle area, it's easy to figure out. That if your parents work on wall street or IT, you are pretty much a 'full fare' candidate.</p>