Hey. I’m 31 and already have a BS in Justice studies from JMU. They didn’t have an engineering program when I was there and I went a completely different route. After school I ended up running restaurants, now at a mid point in my life I want to move in a different direction. I’ve always been mechanically inclined and liked building things. So basically I want to go into mechanical engineering but I’m not sure if I would be better served by getting a second bachelor’s or going straight for a master. Also how would having just the Masters in engineering affect career possibilities? Would there be a large gap of information that I’m missing?
I think you’ll have a hard time being accepted to a masters of engineering program without the necessary undergrad engineering courses.
As mentioned above, a MS would be an uphill battle. It isn’t like making this decision with a physics or math degree in your pocket, where you’d have a few prerequisites. You’ll have a deep hole to fill in. Have you taken Calculus based Physics? If not, you’ll be starting at ground zero.
More importantly, being mechanically inclined and liking to build things isn’t really the best indicator of success in ME. Aptitude in and enjoyment of advanced math is. What is the most advanced math you’ve taken?
Probably not enough. Thanks for the reality check
In general second bachelor’s degrees are full pay. No institutional or little or no government financial aid.
Have you considered a certificate program in Construction Management / Project Management ?
Check out the offerings from your local community college. You might be surprised at the breadth of career focused offerings as well as by the low cost & flexibility.
Not all colleges will allow students to get a second BS. You don’t really need a second BS, just the engineering classes.
Pick a college and look at their engineering BS program. You need the engineering classes and the prerequisites. Depending on how far back you need to go, starting in community college may be the way to go. It would also be a test of how well you do. Engineering programs can be tough as they are primarily math driven. Math courses have to be understood as to why you do what you do to solve the problem and not just memorization. It can be daunting for some.
If it is just working with your hands part of it that you enjoy, maybe a technical school tech type degree will get you what you want. Good techs are paid well and can have very interesting careers.
Are you still in Virginia? (maybe it does not matter).
Check out ODU. I can’t say for certain how it will work out, but I can share a personal experience from a little over 10 years ago. I know programs change, so this could be way out of date info. I graduated from Va Tech in mechanical engineering. After working for a while, I recognized that some formal education on the electrical side would be useful. ODU offered an engineering technology degree at the time (it’s worth looking up the difference, but simplistically the math is not quite as rigorous). After discussing it with them, all I needed was 11 classes, and they would confer a BS electrical engineering tech. This was highly based on my course work at VT, and because theoretically the Virginia colleges are one happy family, they gave me credit for everything that applied. Full disclosure - I did not pursue this due to combination of kids, job change, and moving.
It may not still work this way, but it could be a good path to check out. ODU has some broad offerings, and maybe something applies here.
“If it is just working with your hands part of it that you enjoy, maybe a technical school tech type degree will get you what you want” - Good point. Study all your options.
Could you recommend some tech careers that would be good?
You can start by looking at MET since you said ME. I grabbed one from Virginia State (which I know nothing about), but you should get the gist by reading the description, looking at the curriculum and objectives and outcomes.
http://www.cet.vsu.edu/departments/technology/programs/mechanical-engineering-technology/index.php
Engineering technology is not engineering. Career prospects and growth with an ET degree are significantly limited as compared to an engineering degree. There are other threads on CC that discuss ET vs. Engineering in detail, I would encourage you to take a look at them. In my experience in the aerospace industry none of the companies with which I have worked gave design responsibility to ET degree holders, the few we had were lab technicians and assistants, drawing checkers, maintain engineering documentation, and other ancillary functions but none were design engineers. The relationship between ET and engineering is analagous to that between a physician’s assistant or a nurse and a physician, a paralegal and an attorney, etc. ET holders perform useful and necessary functions but they are not replacements for engineers.
I once taught in a public university that offered both engineering and engineering technology. This particular school was known as a safety for students who could not get into the higher ranked public and private universities in the area. Many needed a part-time program, which those higher ranked schools did not offer being full-time for undergraduate only. A significant number of the engineering students - particularly, the part-timers - were marginal and were not doing well in the engineering curriculum. To avoid losing those students the school suggested to some to transfer to the ET program - it doesn’t have the high level proof-based calculus, calculus-based physics, theoretical science, calculus-based nondisciplinary and disciplinary engineering courses, etc. The school told them or at least implied to them that they would have the same opportunities as engineering graduates. I had a heated debate with the dean at the time telling him that that is just not true - and to suggest that to the students is doing them a disservice, and frankly, dishonest.
@engineering80, The OP is looking for more applied fields that are less math intensive than ME.
@eyemgh - Understood, and that is perfectly fine, but again I would encourage the OP to exercise his/her due diligence and caveat emptor with respect to the opportunities and the type of work done by ET graduates as opposed to engineering graduates, and I hope (unlike the school I used to teach for) his/her school is honest with respect to the difference between ET and engineering with respect to capability and career opportunities. In my experience, the marketing of ET programs by some schools that “ET is more ‘applied’ or ‘practically oriented’” compared with engineering is really a euphemism for attracting students who can’t shoulder the math, physics, and proof-based theory of the coursework in a standard engineering program. Also in my experience, more than just a few students who choose ET over engineering (or transfer to ET from engineering) are looking for an easy way out. One gets out of school what they put into it, you cannot expect to have the same opportunity not having put in the same work and effort to acquire the analytical tools in order to be able to do high level design work that an engineering student had, obviously.
There is a very good reason why engineering is hard. The math and physics explain why natural phenomena occur. One cannot design an airplane, bridge, automobile engine, medical device, et al without a knowledge and understanding of the underlying physics, chemistry, mechanics, statics, dynamics, et al and the math which is the language that describes all of them. If a physician or surgeon for example makes a mistake, a person can die. If an engineer makes a mistake, hundreds or thousands of people can die. There really aren’t any shortcuts in this regard.
You have a long record of degrading tech programs. I fully understand your perspective. I fully understand that techs are not engineers.
The OP believes he is this type of person “students who can’t shoulder the math, physics, and proof-based theory of the coursework”. If that is indeed the case, why advocated cramming a square peg into round hole. If he is interested and finds it compelling, why not encourage that route? Techs are needed in the workforce. You don’t want overly trained engineers doing tech work.
@eyemgh - I have a long record of telling it like it is. As one who taught in both engineering and ET programs, and have had the opportunity to advise students regarding career choices I tell them the truth. The dean of the aforementioned school who defended their misleading students regarding opportunities in ET as opposed to engineering was not telling the truth and called him out on it. I completely understand from reading this thread that the original commenter desires to do technical work but not necessarily engineering work. As I said before there is nothing wrong with that. I don’t think anyone commenting here is suggesting that he/she pursue engineering if he/she isn’t up to the challenge. I too advised students who were in similar positions and interested in doing technical work to go into the ET program, but in that case they had the benefit of the full disclosure as to the relationship between ET and engineering. I am certain that you appreciate the difference between engineering technicians and engineers.
When I began my career some 40 years ago most of the engineering technicians in my organization had 2 year degrees from community colleges. They didn’t burden themselves with four years of college and student loans and were perfectly capable of doing their jobs. ET became more prevalent later on, but it begs the question why does one need a four year degree to do technician/engineering support work? IMO they really don’t.
The OP asks if he/she should get a second BS or for MS. MS in what? An engineering graduate school is very unlikely to accept a student with a bachelor’s degree in a field far removed from engineering (criminal justice) into its master’s program in engineering. Most engineering graduate schools require applicants to have an undergraduate engineering degree, or at least one in a closely related field such as math, physics, etc. A master’s degree in engineering also is not a substitute or superseeds a bachelor’s degree in engineering, since it is usually specialized in a subspecialty of engineering and doesn’t contain the underlying foundational science, non-disciplinary specific engineering, lab, and engineering design courses that a regular undergrad engineering program does. It does not by itself prepare one to be a qualified and fully trained engineer, rather, it builds upon the foundation that would be gained in the undergraduate engineering program.
In the original post the OP indicated he would like to study mechanical engineering. He/she made no mention of ET as opposed to engineering. If he/she wants to do engineering work, then starting anew in an ME program is the best course. Yes, the OP will have to take all the math, physics, chemistry, et al from scratch. If he/she is more suited to technical work as discussed earlier, the bachelor’s degree in ET would be a better bet.
If I were to, say, wade into the piranha-infested waters that are this thread, I suppose I have to agree with both of you. The OP clearly doesn’t seem like engineering is right for them and that an engineering technician position may be more in line with their interests. I also agree that there are caveats that go along with that and that requiring a 4 year degree of a technician is silly. Unfortunately, it’s the game you have to play at this time, but as long as you go into it with clear eyes and expectations, it should be fine.
He doesn’t want to be an engineer per se. He wants to move out of Justice. He asked about ME because, as he said, “I’ve always been mechanically inclined and liked building things.” As you know, ME is very little about tinkering, and very much about applied math and physics. Once he learned that, he intimated that his math background might not be strong enough. That’s why alternatives like MET and construction management entered the discussion.